From ballyalley@h... Thu Feb 08 17:19:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 01:19:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 3348 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 01:19:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 01:19:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 01:19:06 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.10.123] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 01:19:05 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 01:19:02 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: The beginning of the group Message-ID: <95vgi6+p55v@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 285 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" Today, February 8, 2001, marks the beginning of the Astrocade discussion group. This is the day when the Astrocade community begins to have a place to meet and call our own. Anyone want to start off discussing who we are, what we do, and how we use our Astrocades? Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Thu Feb 08 23:53:19 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 81376 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 07:53:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 07:53:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 07:53:18 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.4.74] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 07:53:18 -0000 Date: 9 Feb 2001 07:53:17 -0000 Message-ID: <981705197.248.28604.k12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the ballyalley group: Assume that we were able to put together a RAM expansion device that offered at least 64K of RAM, a way to load games to it from the PC (or also audio), and also allowing for the use of "commercial mode" graphics (320x200 rather than the stock 160x102), what would you be willing to pay for it? o $20-40 o $41-60 o $61-80 o $81-100 To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Thu Feb 08 23:58:28 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10418 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 07:58:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 07:58:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 07:58:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.225] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 07:58:27 -0000 Date: 9 Feb 2001 07:58:24 -0000 Message-ID: <981705504.1454.33257.s2@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the ballyalley group: Would you like to participate in the creation of a Bally CD-ROM and/or ram expansion device? Assume some technical knowledge of Z80 assembler, graphic art, and electrical engineering would be required. o Yes, I think I can help o No, I don't think I can help o I'd like to learn more through this list so can be in a position to help o I'm just here to offer advice o No, but I may learn how to write for it if this stuff comes out To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Thu Feb 08 23:58:58 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11127 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 07:58:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 07:58:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 07:58:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.225] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 07:58:58 -0000 Date: 9 Feb 2001 07:58:57 -0000 Message-ID: <981705537.73.33163.s2@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the ballyalley group: Have you ever written a Bally Basic program? o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From cybpunks@m... Fri Feb 09 00:51:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 08:51:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 52663 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 08:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 08:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO b05.egroups.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 08:51:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@m... Received: from [10.1.2.11] by b05.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 08:51:51 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 08:51:49 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: hi Message-ID: <960b35+1020r@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1370 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.165.162.215 From: cybpunks@m... I don't have an Astrocade right now, mostly because I'm waiting for the availability of a useful RAM expansion. I was a little disappointed to find out after a rosy childhood experience of being envious of Astrocade owners, that Bally Basic only allows for 1800 bytes of RAM (plus anything you want to steal away from the 1-bit framebuffer display it presents). Nevertheless, I do know that there are plenty of interesting games that could be written in that narrow a space. From what I read on Bally Alley, the OS routines contain quite a bit of functions that you can access. However, from today's perspective, I think what is most intriguing is to unlock the hidden "commercial mode" 320x200 graphics of the Astrocade. Even the Blue Ram didn't really let you get at this very well because it was released in an era when RAM was still a bit pricey. I'd love to see some new games be written to access a RAM expansion, whether they be loaded into RAM, or in ROM but using the RAM like a N64 RAMPACK kind of thing. Of course I'd also love to see a Stella Gets a New Brain kind of product for the Astrocade as well. But it's only going to happen if we all pull together and make it happen. So I'm hoping that people start joining the list and get the ball rolling. I'm going to put some links to the group on my homepage, for one... --Glenn From hsawtelle@h... Fri Feb 09 06:57:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: hsawtelle@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 14:57:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 38813 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 14:57:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 14:57:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cj.egroups.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 14:57:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: hsawtelle@h... Received: from [10.1.2.36] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 14:57:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 14:57:41 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: The beginning of the group Message-ID: <9610h5+o8df@e...> In-Reply-To: <95vgi6+p55v@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 907 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.71.228.4 From: hsawtelle@h... I am not a technician, just a classic gamer and collector. Thus I will not be able to contribute much in the way of programming or circuit design, but I will be an enthusiastic alpha/beta tester and user of whatever the group comes up with. I have a Bally and about 15 games. It is one of my favorite systems, along with the Intellivision, Vectrex, and Atari 5200. My programming knowledge is limited to BASIC. I learned BASIC on a Vic-20 in the early 1980's and I have written a few silly Astrocade basic progs to amuse myself. --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Today, February 8, 2001, marks the beginning of the Astrocade > discussion group. This is the day when the Astrocade community > begins to have a place to meet and call our own. > > Anyone want to start off discussing who we are, what we do, and how > we use our Astrocades? > > Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Fri Feb 09 08:41:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 16:41:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 99240 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 16:41:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 16:41:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 16:41:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.10.93] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 16:41:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 16:41:39 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: On the Astrocade's 256 color and High-res mode Message-ID: <9616k3+gc4n@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2772 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" There is much talk about the high-res mode on the Astrocade. Bret Bilbrey (programmer of the Bally cart ICBM Attack) describes how the high-res mode works in an article on page three of the July 1982 issue of Astobugs. You can check out this newsletter at: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/astrobugs/astrobugs_newsletter _july_1982.pdf Following is most of the article called "From the Inside Cover." "Since this is my first column, let me first introduce myself. I've been working and playing with Astrocade (Bally), since 1977. I've contributed to the Arcadian, Cursor, and the New Basic Manual. I'm 22 years old, recently engaged, and about to graduate from the University of Michigan with, with an Electrical Engineering degree. Because of my programming background and knowledge of the Astrocade, I've been hired recently to design new cartridges for Astrocade, Inc. Currently, I am responsible for the new Missile Attack cartridge (#2020). I would like to try to answer your questions in future issues, so send them in. Also, we will have a question and answer period at the meetings, but please be prepared with any questions you want to ask!!!! This time I would like to answer a question I'm asked often. "Can we make our game high resolution?" First, what is high resolution? The Astrocade's graphic resolution is 160 pixels across by 101 top to bottom. A pixel is the smallest box the game can make. Now, high resolution is 320 pixels across by 202 from top to bottom. In high resolution, a pixel is smaller than in low resolution. Therefore, the graphics are better. Now, for some bad news... it is very expensive to modify a game to make it high resolution (about $300). Also, if you did convert your game to high resolution, you would have to redesign or rewrite your games internal software. What this all means is that right now, we have to be happy with our normal resolution. Now, for a little good news. At our last meeting, one of the things Mr. Perkins showed us was a unit he modified to work in high resolution. As of yet, he has not written the software to make it work. In fact, I don't know of anyone working on high resolution software at this time. Needless to say, right now high resolution is not practical, but perhaps we will see some working high resolution units in the future." That is what Bret had to say almost twenty years ago. The question is, is high-res mode economically feasible now? This is something that James Krych wants to know, as do the rest of us. Adam Trionfo BTW - I originally posted this (in a slightly different form) on November 5, 2000 in the newsgroup rec.games.video.classic and I am posting it here since it is worthy of some attention. From ballyalley@h... Fri Feb 09 13:52:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 21:52:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 85764 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 21:52:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 21:52:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.100) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 21:52:36 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:52:35 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 21:52:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade Museum Entry Help Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:52:35 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Feb 2001 21:52:35.0948 (UTC) FILETIME=[9CEDFAC0:01C092E2] From: "Adam Trionfo" I was asked by ClassicGaming.com (the folks that host the Bally Alley web site) to write the entry for their museum. This is what I told them: "I'll contact some other Astrocade fans, and between us, we can get an entry for the museum that is quite robust. It will probably take a few weeks, but it WILL happen." I'll write something, then I'll pitch it to the group and see what people have to add. Before I begin though, there are a few history holes that I would like filled. Does anyone know when Astrovision stopped marketing the Astrocade? Did it stop in 1985? Who owns the rights to the Astrocade hardware and the ROMs? Anyone have any contact with third party Astrocade people? Any history NOT in the Astrocade FAQ would be useful. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Fri Feb 09 14:16:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 22:16:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 55688 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 22:16:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 22:16:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.140) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 22:16:04 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:16:04 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:16:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Copyright Holders: Where Are These People? Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 14:16:04 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Feb 2001 22:16:04.0631 (UTC) FILETIME=[E491F270:01C092E5] From: "Adam Trionfo" I am unable to put Astrocade ROM images on the Bally Alley web site (various reasons). This gives me some needed motivation. I am trying to find out who owns the copyright for the Astrocade ROMs. I want to include the ROMs on the Astrocade CD, but I will only do that if I can get the rights to the ROMs legally. Maybe the current copyright holder will allow certain ROMs to be used freely, perhaps not games like The Incredible Wizard, but others (that is the hope anyway). Wouldn't it be nice if the Astrocade emulator could be distributed with the Bally System ROM (both versions) and ROMs? Who holds the copyright for: Bally System ROM and ROM cartridges Third-party ROMs? Third-party cassette games (which ones were PD?) Does anyone know where to find these people? Fred Cornett (publisher of Cursor) Mike Peace (Published MANY cassette games) John Perkins (Perkins Engineering, maker of the Blue Ram RAM expansion) Jamie Fenton, the writer of Bally BASIC, would like to see Bally BASIC become open source. She has made some movement in that direction already-- not sure how much though. Even if you only know who the last holder was fifteen years ago, that COULD help. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cybpunks@m... Fri Feb 09 16:32:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 00:32:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 3286 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 00:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 00:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c3.egroups.com) (10.1.10.50) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 00:32:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@m... Received: from [10.1.10.98] by c3.egroups.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2001 00:32:45 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:32:40 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On the Astrocade's 256 color and High-res mode Message-ID: <962278+5b36@e...> In-Reply-To: <9616k3+gc4n@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 645 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.92 From: cybpunks@m... >> That is what Bret had to say almost twenty years ago. The question is, is high-res mode economically feasible now? This is something that James Krych wants to know, as do the rest of us. << The memory for such a thing would be miniscule in cost. The only cost to worry about is the PCB manufacturing, or maybe some cost for a programmable gate array chip (which would be a good way to go as it helps simplify the board design considerably). Just look at things like the Intellicart and devices of that flavor for precedent. I think it could be sold for less than $100 today. Maybe as low as $60 if it were done for no profit. From jwkrych@n... Fri Feb 09 16:42:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 00:42:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 99331 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 00:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 00:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 00:42:50 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jwkrych@n... Received: from [10.1.2.240] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2001 00:42:50 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:42:47 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hi Guys! Message-ID: <9622q7+ee1d@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4881 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 216.28.79.113 From: jwkrych@n... My name is Jim Krych! I am a 31 year old Electronics Tech working currently for Keithley Instruments. The instruments I am working with all have through-hole technology, so I have become very good at desoldering and soldering professionally. This will help with any future project we do, since I really doubt we will need to have SMT parts! I have dual-diplomas, one in Electronics Technology with Microprocessors, 6809 coding, and my current one is Computer Programming and Operations, just 9 more C lessons to go! I have project and hardware design experience. For the TI community, it was the AEMS/AMS/SuperAMS projects. In which I was the project manager, as well as building the initial AEMS 128K SRAM prototype, from the deisng of my hardware engineer. This project enabled the TI to have a 1 MB expanded memory systems, using a memory mapper. For the SuperAMS, I also worked with the PCB designer, and did the contract quoting, and the specs, plus debugging the prototype PCB we had made. My next project after that was the VideoTurtle, which is a scan convertor that takes TV RGB, 15.75KHz RGB, and converts it into S- Video, and composite upon request. I am also currently getting ready to finish a prototype of something for the retrogaming crowd. So, I am experienced with both memory expansion, and video. I also have a fellow tech at Keithley who enjoys programming Z80 machine code, and hardware design as well. This will really helps us out, he has expressed an interest in joining us in this. John will be getting back with me. I have been a Bally fan since 1983, when I read the Ken Uston book. I have owned a Bally since 1987-1988. And even back then, was interested in having a SRAM memory expansion for it! My immediate concern/project, is the video output of the Bally. We are really blessed that the Bally custom chipset was used in several arcade games by Bally itself. This means we can look to what they did. As such, I did D/L the Nutting Manual, the Bally Service Manual, and the Wizzard of Wor manual. As well as a bunch of others from Bally Alley! WOW takes the RY,BY of the chipset, and converts that into an RGB output. I have looked at the schematics, and that design is fairly simple, yet I do not know if we can get the same parts they used. However, I did get an RY,BY convertor circuit off of the Internet. I need to have a few more questions answered by the author, and then go on from there. Also, I am looking at the combining of the chroma and luma signals to get a color composite video signal out. This will relieve us of that nasty RF junk, and save our aging eyes! I suspect that the luma out was also used in any mono arcade games that Bally did, that used the chipset. SO that is my most immediate project/concern for this. I have a unit that probably needs a few RAM chips replaced, but does output a display of sorts, I can use that one for testing purposes. Now, for something very near and dear. The Commercial Mode of the chipset allows for 320x204 resolution. The Bally is set to Consumer mode, which is 160x102. This mode needs 4K, which is what we have. The Commercial Mode requires 16K. Starting at the same address as the 4K. So, we have two decisions: 1.) Do we disable and have a separate 16K on the motherboard, as a daughter board, or such? 2.) Can we include the extra 12K off system through the expansion bus? Which will also include extra memory, or a memory mapper and a 128K/512K SRAM(which are $19.95 now). Also, we need to set output port 08H to 01H. This sets the chipset to Commercial Mode. I suspected that the arcade games did this, and here is my proof. I dissassembled the first 4K ROM of WOW. And sure enough, in the first few instructions, code was there to immediately turn the chipset into Commercial Mode! To wit: ; Disassembly of the file "C:\My Documents\DZ80\wow.x1" ; ; Created with dZ80 v1.31 ; ; on Monday, 01 of January 2001 at 09:17 PM ; di ld sp,#d400 ld a,#01 out (#08),a I haven't looked at the rest of the code, but I presume maze info and such is in there. What would be ideal is the following: Is John Perkins still around, and does he have his modified Bally for high-res? Or, does anyone have that Z-Grass manual, and the schematics for it? Now, the problem is that the Blue Ram starts at 6000H for it's memory. Which is fine for a low res systems. But!!! HIGH RES needs 4000H to 7FFFH for it's full 16K buffer. The rest of the memory, the last 32K, is available for expansion. So, we have a dilema. But, I have said quite a bit for now. I will give Adam my buddy John's email. I will also email John with the URL of Bally Alley. So he can start D/L the manuals. I am looking forward to working with you guys! Regards, Jim W. Krych "centurion030" From ward.shrake@w... Fri Feb 09 17:48:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 01:48:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 65753 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 01:48:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 01:48:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ci.egroups.com) (10.1.2.81) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 01:48:36 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.34] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2001 01:48:36 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 01:48:33 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hello, folks. Message-ID: <9626lh+3rck@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1500 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.72.152.91 From: "Ward Shrake" Just chiming in to say that I'm a member of the group, and plan to contribute if and when I can. Problem is, my overall hobby time is limited, and it is already spread pretty thinly among various things. I'll do what I can, when I can, between other retro gaming projects. Here is a link to an article I wrote, about how to photo etch things. If the group gets to the point of making circuit boards, I know how to do that. For those that don't, the article should be a good start. http://home.att.net/~ward.shrake/modeling/fotoetch.htm Sooner or later, I plan to work on making multi-carts for various obscure systems, including the Bally Astrocade. (Be forewarned that this is strictly a "when I feel like it and have the time to work on it" project!) I've wanted to do it for years, just to be doing it. I'm working on this project as a modular design, so that once I design up one working set of memory-addressing dipswitches, for instance, I can just cut-and-paste it into a new PC board design. (I have something proto-typed, but have not tested it as yet.) I also have some limited plastic's molding capability, which might be useful for making things like little bezels around the dipswitches, etc. If any of this gets anywhere in our current lifetimes, I'll post specifics on my web sites, so that others can also follow along. Ward "Slow as a snail" Shrake VIC-20 web site: http://classicgaming.com/vic20/ Emerson Arcadia web site: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/ From cybpunks@m... Sat Feb 10 13:06:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 21:06:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 2550 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 21:06:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 21:06:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls01.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.20) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 21:06:06 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1AL65j24763 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:06:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010210125206.02c093b0@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:07:41 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Blue Ram In-Reply-To: <981832982.218.8338.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders At 07:23 PM 2/10/2001 +0000, you wrote: >enabled the TI to have a 1 MB expanded memory systems, using a memory 1MB for the TI 99/4A?? >Also, I am looking at the combining of the chroma and luma signals to >get a color composite video signal out. This will relieve us of that >nasty RF junk, and save our aging eyes! I suspect that the luma out >was also used in any mono arcade games that Bally did, that used the >chipset. Composite will be fine for the consumer mode. If we get commercial mode working, artifacting will kick in and the only way to get crisp video will be Y/C. RGB is nice but only of interest to those of us lucky enough to have things like C= 1084s around (I have a 1080 myself.) >1.) Do we disable and have a separate 16K on the motherboard, as a >daughter board, or such? The Nutting manual does say that commercial mode is available with RAM expansions. ZGrass was going to use it. So I'm sure the S-100 bus can map memory anywhere. The Blue RAM can remap into the cart address range so I'm sure the S-100 can force the Astrocade to forsake the internal RAM and the cart ROM and just look to the S-100 bus for all 65535 bytes of the Z80's addressing range. >Also, we need to set output port 08H to 01H. This sets the chipset to Can't this be done on a program by program basis? Does it need to be set only when the machine powers on? >Is John Perkins still around, and does he have his modified Bally for >high-res? I told Adam that when it comes to finding people, it shouldn't be that hard, if you employ Yahoo people search, make a few phone calls, and worst case, hire a people finder for $50 or something. It's all a matter of taking the initiative. >Now, the problem is that the Blue Ram starts at 6000H for it's >memory. Which is fine for a low res systems. But!!! For the record, I think merely cloning the Blue RAM would be a bad idea, for reasons like this. It would be better to have a fresh approach from a modern perspective, i.e. Banked RAM beyond 64K, no needless holes in the RAM address range like the above illustrates, and high speed I/O as a priority (for loading programs from the PC). The Blue RAM is a good starting point, though. From ballyalley@h... Sat Feb 10 13:30:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 21:30:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 12654 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 21:30:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 21:30:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.48) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 22:31:42 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:30:36 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:30:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RGB and S-video Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:30:36 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2001 21:30:36.0800 (UTC) FILETIME=[B511B800:01C093A8] From: "Adam Trionfo" >RGB is nice but only of interest to those of us lucky enough to have > >things like C= 1084s around (I have a 1080 myself.) I've read that Commodore 1084 monitors (and the like) can accept an S-video signal. Doesn't it work the other way around too? If so, then most modern TVs could accept RGB signals from, say, an Amiga-- right? If this is true (please, enlighten me), then it wouldn't hurt for the RAM unit to have RGB. But really, regardless, it wouldn't need it, and adding it might not be cost effective. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Sat Feb 10 13:45:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 21:45:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 65773 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 21:45:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 21:45:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.94) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 21:45:00 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:44:59 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:44:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New docs at ballyalley.com Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:44:59 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2001 21:44:59.0833 (UTC) FILETIME=[B77A1A90:01C093AA] From: "Adam Trionfo" February 10, 2001 I've uploaded some new manuals to ballyalley.com Blue Ram Keyboard Owners Manual Spectre Controller docs Various cartridge manuals (about fifteen of them) I have also been scanning in issues of "Cursor." Not sure if I will put these up yet though. I am trying to find Fred Cornett first. These newsletters, like the "Arcadian," are jammed full of useful information, quite a bit of it hardware related. I contacted Robert Fabris about posting "Arcadian" issues (I have Arcadian issues through Oct, 1984-- anyone have the rest?). He sent me a brief message today saying that he would follow-up soon (I asked him quite a number of questions). I've talked to him before about contributing to the Astrocade CD, and he is still interested. Over the next week or so, I'm going to go through the archives of RVGC and post to the discussion group information that is Astrocade related and still relevant. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jwkrych@n... Sat Feb 10 16:01:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 11 Feb 2001 00:01:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 60776 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 00:01:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Feb 2001 00:01:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 01:02:55 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.202] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A6103600070; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:00:16 -0500 Message-ID: <004401c093c0$67de4e00$ca4f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010210125206.02c093b0@p...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Blue Ram Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:20:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09396.7E3EDB80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09396.7E3EDB80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Guys! This is in response to both Adam's and Glenn's inquiries.=20 Adam, the European TV's accept RGB in through their SCART connectors. Howev= er, that is PAL frequency. Many modern TV's here accept composite and S-Vid= eo. There were some TV's a while back that did accept RGB, but they are few= and far between. Glenn is right, composite will do fine for consumer mode work. When we get = into Commercial Mode though, we will need either RGB or S-Video, for that e= xtra and crisp clarity. I am in touch with the authors of RY,By conversion circuits, so I should be= hearing back soon from them. Glenn, the TI 99/4A was able to have 1MB by use of the 74LS(laterHCT)612 me= mory mapper. It used 4K pages, and allowed us to page in from anywhere we a= llowed the mapper registers to be mapable. Such as 2,3 and A,B,C,D,E,F. Whi= ch corresponded to the lower 8K and the upper 24K of the TI. The Blue Ram just allows the 2000H area to be decoded out, so the RAM memor= y becomes a cart to the system. They probably used a '138 to decode out the= addresses to be used. Simple stuff. We can do the same in regards to the B= ally. The upper 32 memory can become a window to a 1 MB memory mountain. Us= ing 4K pages. The TI book I have shows a block diagram for a Z80 to the '61= 2 to allow a 1 MB memory system. The mapper registers would be 8,9,A,B,C,D,= E, and F mapable.=20 I must admit that I haven't gone through the entire Nutting Manual. I went = to the video section alone. Glenn, can you show me which page you found tha= t info on? If that is indeed the case, then for testing only, the 4K will b= e disabled, and a 32K SRAM, with a '138 decoding out the 4000H and 6000H bl= ocks(8K each). We get a screen display upon powerup, we can then go into Ba= lly Basic, or someone who has the machine language monitor cart(better), an= d start the testing there. No, port 08H must be set to 01H on a program by program basis. Not just for= a one shot deal. I was just stating how to set the chips into that mode. There is several ways to handle the dilema of conflicting memory usage. Esp= ecially once we get high-res. I think a separate SRAM chip, decoded for the= screen RAM locations, and to allow high-res, plus a mapper-based system th= at uses the upper 32K as a window, plus a fast-PC interface, would do fine = for what we need to do.=20 Alright! We seem to be getting what we need started in regards to ideas! Talk to you guys soon! Jim =20=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09396.7E3EDB80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Guys!
 
This is in response to both Adam's and Glenn's inquirie= s.=20
 
Adam, the European TV's accept RGB in through their SCA= RT=20 connectors. However, that is PAL frequency. Many modern TV's here accept=20 composite and S-Video. There were some TV's a while back that did accept RG= B,=20 but they are few and far between.
 
Glenn is right, composite will do fine for consumer mod= e work.=20 When we get into Commercial Mode though, we will need either RGB or S-Video= , for=20 that extra and crisp clarity.
 
I am in touch with the authors of RY,By conversion circ= uits,=20 so I should be hearing back soon from them.
 
Glenn, the TI 99/4A was able to have 1MB by use of the= =20 74LS(laterHCT)612 memory mapper. It used 4K pages, and allowed us to page i= n=20 from anywhere we allowed the mapper registers to be mapable. Such as 2,3 an= d=20 A,B,C,D,E,F. Which corresponded to the lower 8K and the upper 24K of the=20 TI.
 
The Blue Ram just allows the 2000H area to be decoded o= ut, so=20 the RAM memory becomes a cart to the system. They probably used a '138= to=20 decode out the addresses to be used. Simple stuff. We can do the same in re= gards=20 to the Bally. The upper 32 memory can become a window to a 1 MB memory moun= tain.=20 Using 4K pages. The TI book I have shows a block diagram for a Z80 to the '= 612=20 to allow a 1 MB memory system. The mapper registers would be 8,9,A,B,C= ,D,E,=20 and F mapable.
 
I must admit that I haven't gone through the entire Nut= ting=20 Manual. I went to the video section alone. Glenn, can you show me which pag= e you=20 found that info on? If that is indeed the case, then for testing only, the = 4K=20 will be disabled, and a 32K SRAM, with a '138 decoding out the 4000H and 60= 00H=20 blocks(8K each). We get a screen display upon powerup, we can then go into = Bally=20 Basic, or someone who has the machine language monitor cart(better), and st= art=20 the testing there.
 
No, port 08H must be set to 01H on a program by pr= ogram=20 basis. Not just for a one shot deal.  I was just stating how to set th= e=20 chips into that mode.
 
There is several ways to handle the dilema of conflicti= ng=20 memory usage. Especially once we get high-res. I think a separate SRAM chip= ,=20 decoded for the screen RAM locations, and to allow high-res, plus a mapper-= based=20 system that uses the upper 32K as a window, plus a fast-PC interface, would= do=20 fine for what we need to do.
 
Alright! We seem to be getting what we need started in = regards=20 to ideas!
 
Talk to you guys soon!
 
Jim
  
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09396.7E3EDB80-- From cybpunks@m... Sat Feb 10 22:17:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 11 Feb 2001 06:17:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 20438 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 06:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Feb 2001 06:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fg.egroups.com) (10.1.2.134) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 06:17:16 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@m... Received: from [10.1.10.121] by fg.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2001 06:17:16 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 06:17:12 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RGB and S-video Message-ID: <965ap8+jntv@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2059 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.165.162.215 From: cybpunks@m... > I've read that Commodore 1084 monitors (and the like) can accept an S-video > signal. Doesn't it work the other way around too? If so, then most modern Yes, C= monitors can accept RGB, Y/C, or composite. The Y/C is in the form of dual RCAs because these monitors predate S-VHS (which was the first use of the S-Video cable for Y/C, otherwise known as chroma- luma). So you need to build an S-Video->dual RCA adapter to plug consumer S-video cables into a C= monitor. There are also at least two ways to plug into a C= RGB monitor, DB9 and a DIN connector. I think also there are two genders on the DB9 depending on the model but that's easy to fix with a gender changer. That's what I need to do with my Amiga and my 1080 with the particular cable that I have. However, regular TVs tend to only have composite video in, if that. These days most TVs have composite video in because most consumer electronics devices which are in use today are geared towards that, and have finally abandoned RF. Most videogame consoles, pretty much all VCRs, etc... output composite video directly. S-video is getting more common but tends to be limited to the larger mid-priced televisions. There are no RGB-capable NTSC monitors available at reasonable prices unless you wanted to use a raw arcade monitor. The C= or Atari monitors are the only option, and unfortunately they are small (13"). I don't think it really costs that much more to make TVs with all the ports, but they chintz out. Europeans have enjoyed SCART (which has all these signals) on most of their TVs for years, but we don't get that. > (please, enlighten me), then it wouldn't hurt for the RAM unit to have RGB. The RAM unit wouldn't likely have the A/V mod on it. The A/V mod would have to be an internal modification. The A/V signals do not, that I know of, directly route to the S-100 bus, so they'd have to get tapped on the motherboard directly. I understand the confusion, though, since most modern consoles have an A/V expansion slot in the rear. From cybpunks@m... Sat Feb 10 23:19:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 11 Feb 2001 07:19:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 99303 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 07:19:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Feb 2001 07:19:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 07:19:54 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@m... Received: from [10.1.4.74] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2001 07:19:53 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 07:19:52 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Blue Ram Message-ID: <965eeo+8f59@e...> In-Reply-To: <004401c093c0$67de4e00$ca4f1cd8@j...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5501 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.165.162.215 From: cybpunks@m... >1 MB memory mountain. Using 4K pages. The TI book I have shows a >block diagram for a Z80 to the '612 to allow a 1 MB memory system. >The mapper registers would be 8,9,A,B,C,D,E, and F mapable. Is 4K a good size for the banking window? It seems rather small. The Atari 8-bit, for instance, used a 16K banking window. That seems like a healthier size, don't you think? >I must admit that I haven't gone through the entire Nutting Manual. >I went to the video section alone. Glenn, can you show me which page >you found that info on It didn't go into that much detail from what I read. It just said that with a RAM expansion, this was possible. I was just commenting on the feasibility of it, since the ZGrass prototypes were already doing just that. It's hard to tell exactly what the Nutting manual was referring to with the Bally hardware. It could have been just a spec of the raw prototype machine as it was before it became an actual finished product. Conceivably, the Bally itself may have constraints that the original design didn't have in it. However, I don't think this is the case. The reason it seems that way to me is the emphasis on how it sat on the fence between a game machine and a home computer Nutting manual highlights: Page 39 (keyframed animation system, pretty cool sounding) Page 58 (integrated music sequencing, also cool sounding) Page 81 (system overview) "The system exists in both high-resolution and low-resolution models. The three custom chips can operate in either mode. The mode of operation is determined by bit 0 of output port 8H. It must be set to 0 for low resolution and 1 for high resolution. This bit is not set to 0 at power up but must be set by software before any RAM operations can be performed. In Both the low and high resolution models, the operating system ROM is in the first 8K of memory space. The silicon cassette ROM [i.e. cartridge] is in the space from 8K to 16K. The standard screen RAM begins at 16K. In the low resolution unit, the standard screen RAM is 4K bytes. In the high resolution unit it is 16K bytes. Magic screen RAM begins at location 0. It is the same size as standard screen RAM. All memory above 32K is available for expansion. In the low-resolution unit, memory space 20K to 32K is available for expansion." Then the diagrams follow, and the only difference between the two units is the amount of stock screen RAM. The expanded ram available starts RIGHT AFTER screen RAM ends. SILICON CASSETTE is the Bally terminology for a cartridge ROM. This memory space is absent in the hires unit, because the hires unit must refer to the arcade architecture where the game code is fixed. I'm also assuming that Magic RAM area would expand whenever you set the chips to commercial mode. BTW, the MAGIC RAM is like a kind of blitter of bit manipulation area. (see page 94 onward) Page 93 (Screen interrupt) "it can be used in conjunction with the color registers to make as many as 256 color-intensity combinations appear on the screen at the same time." Regarding memory management, check out page 111. The Microcycler limits the system to seeing only 4K (12 bits) of screen RAM. The block diagram shows the extender plug (probably the S-100 bus) as connecting BEHIND the microcycler, directly to the Z80. I'm guessing that in commercial mode the memory would need to replace the 4K on board. I don't think the system will be able to read the 4K anymore (in combination with outboard memory) when it kicks into commercial mode because of the shift in the memory management scheme. There isn't an actual pinout of the S-100 port in the Nutting manual, unfortunately. S-100 varied a lot from machine to machine, so we probably can't assume anything about it. > No, port 08H must be set to 01H on a program by program basis. Not just for a one shot deal. I was just stating how to set the chips into that mode. The thing it said was that it has to be set before there is any RAM access. I don't know if that means before any writes, or before any read/write to the 16K area where screen RAM can reside. I think it's the latter, as this would facilitate running programs from extended RAM. It will probably be necessary to create a new cartridge for this RAM expansion that starts the system out in commercial mode. Other problems I can see is how to handle memory contention with the ROM space (which we know that the Blue Ram can fix) and the Magic RAM and OS ROM area. In commercial mode, the Magic Ram area wil be 16K in size. Assuming we have full 64K hanging off the Bally at any one time, only 32K will be available for program space at once. The rest will be screen RAM, OS ROM, and magic RAM. If there were a way to temporarily bank-switch out this stuff (like the Atari XL/XE can do, and its predecessor, the 400/800 could not) then that might be useful. As some people may not know, no 8-bit home computer ever sees all 64K of RAM at one. Because the hardware, the OS, and the cart ROM has to expose itself through the memory map, it punches holes in the address range. I don't know how, for instance, the C=64 handles this, but I think most other systems have a banking control byte to gain access to the RAM in these areas, like the Atari. I think the Apple II was like the Atari 400/800 in only being able to access up to 48K of RAM at a time, leaving the rest for ROM/hardware register access... From palazzol@h... Sun Feb 11 08:55:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 11 Feb 2001 16:55:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 87075 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 16:55:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2001 16:55:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fh.egroups.com) (10.1.2.135) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 16:55:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: palazzol@h... Received: from [10.1.10.125] by fh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2001 16:55:55 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:55:50 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hello Message-ID: <966g6m+jf0g@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 399 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.2.73.141 From: palazzol@h... Hi there, I'm the guy who put the Astrocade emulation into MESS. I'm hoping to get feedback on the emulation, so that I can go back to it when I have some free time. I'd also like to address technical questions if possible, since I'm pretty familiar with the hardware. One thing I know is in complete is the emulation of the noise generator that is part of the sound chip. Thanks, Frank From jwkrych@n... Sun Feb 11 15:45:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 11 Feb 2001 23:45:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 21488 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 23:45:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2001 23:45:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 23:45:44 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.131] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A3C9B9C80130; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:44:09 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c09487$533d5c80$834f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <966g6m+jf0g@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Hello Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:04:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0945D.69733080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0945D.69733080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Frank! How complete is the emulation of the custom chipset inregards to the consum= er/commercial modes that are available? Regards, Jim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: palazzol@h...=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 11:55 AM Subject: [ballyalley] Hello Hi there, I'm the guy who put the Astrocade emulation into MESS. I'm hoping to=20 get feedback on the emulation, so that I can go back to it when I=20 have some free time. I'd also like to address technical questions if=20 possible, since I'm pretty familiar with the hardware. One thing I know is in complete is the emulation of the noise=20 generator that is part of the sound chip. Thanks, Frank Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 2/R=3D1/*http://domains.yahoo.com"> pmail/S=3D1700006497:N/A=3D56= 7132/R=3D2/*http://domains.yahoo.com"> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0945D.69733080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Frank!
 
How complete is the emulation of the custom chipset inr= egards=20 to the consumer/commercial modes that are available?
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 palazzol@h...
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 11= :55=20 AM
Subject: [ballyalley] Hello


Hi there,

I'm the guy who put the Astrocade= =20 emulation into MESS.  I'm hoping to
get feedback on the emulatio= n, so=20 that I can go back to it when I
have some free time.  I'd also l= ike=20 to address technical questions if
possible, since I'm pretty familiar= with=20 the hardware.

One thing I know is in complete is the emulation of = the=20 noise
generator that is part of the sound=20 chip.

Thanks,
Frank





Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0945D.69733080-- From jwkrych@n... Sun Feb 11 16:15:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 12 Feb 2001 00:15:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 88151 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 00:15:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2001 00:15:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 00:14:59 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.131] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AAA5DFF70062; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:13:25 -0500 Message-ID: <001801c0948b$69a59c40$834f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <965eeo+8f59@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Blue Ram Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:33:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09461.7FFE88A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09461.7FFE88A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Glenn! As for your comment in regards to a 4K size. Boy, did that ever bring about= some nasty debates on the Delphi TI-SIG back in 1992-1993!!! Actually, the= debate then was 4K versus 8K pages, and no-DSR versus a DSR. A DSR is a pa= ged device driver system. The point was mott then as we were pushing a total memory SYSTEM. Which inc= luded a new loader, a macro-assembler, and a linker. Using the macro-assemb= ler allowed many more features because of the expanded memory. But, the lin= ker would allow "pages" of anywhere from 4K all the way up to 24K! And, the= programmer never needed to worry about paging the memory in and out. Only one program really used the whole system-that being the 96K game TI-No= poly! As everything else used the manual systems. But, even then, a slide-s= how program combined 3 pages, because TI Bit-map takes up 12K, to allow for= many pictures to be displayed in memory, and cycled through very rapidly. = Otherwise, with the upper 24K, only two bit-map images could be kept in mem= ory. But, that is enough of the past, and the rather pointless debate on page si= zes. Certaintly, any program development in regards to the memory-mapping o= n the Bally, will include PC-based software development for the Bally. And,= in addition to the new BASIC, a loader would need to be designed. But, I am in communication with a CPM programmer who has done alot of codin= g, and is semi-retired, he probably would be of great help in this. If indeed the Bally can use outside RAM for screen memory, then certaintly = a quick experiment can be done with just a 8K SRAM chip, decoded to be acce= ssed at the beginning of screen RAM. We get a display, and no crashes, the = next step is to replace the 8K SRAM with a 32K SRAM(only 16K is used) and t= ry some high-res experiments. Since Frank of the Astrocade MESS emulator is no with us, let's find out ju= st how good the custom chipset is emulated. Since the MAME emu has gotten G= orf, WOW, Space Zap, and others that use the Astrocade chipset, I would thi= nk that we can put the MESS Astrocade emu into commercial mode. Frank would= need to have a 16K memory block emulated, instead of a 4K, starting at the= screen RAM address, 4000H and going to 7FFFH. This would allow us to reall= y test things out. Also, the Bally doesn't have an S-100 bus out. But, I bet we could design a= bus interface to that if needed. I leave that to a very much down the road= project!!! :) Adam, the guy I am talking to has had problems with your email, as well as = Ballyalley web site. I will ask him to join this group here.=20 I see two projects going on: 1) A CD ROM collection of many Bally BASIC programms. With also a makewav = type program to allow Bally BASIC programs from the PC to be loaded into th= e Astrocade 2) An ambitious hardware project, requiring a clear and concise goal. This = will have a dual-team approach, with help also from Frank in the emulation.= This is the expanded memory, with a memory mapper system, allowing the Bal= ly to have much more memory, and the ability to have a high-res(Commercial = Mode) for use to programmers and gamers. And, probably a PIC chip interface= for a serial-to-serial connection to the PC and the Bally, for a faster tr= ansfer rate. I don't think anyone wants to load a big Bally program though = the audio port! :) As a side, the testing of a simple composite video cable to eliminate the R= F box, as well as an RGB convertor, with possibly the addition/conversion o= f the luma/chroma into levels that the S-Video TV's can have. This will all= ow a real cheap and effective way to view the high-res mode without needing= an RGB monitor. Glenn, I have heard of the Atari crowd doing a simple circ= uit to allow the Y/C output of their 8-bit computers to have S-Video. Could= you provide me the info on that? The Bally does have a Video out and a Video in on the 50-pin expansion port= . Probably for the Z-Grass systems. Any other ideas out there guys? Regards, Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09461.7FFE88A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Glenn!
 
As for your comment in regards to a 4K size. Boy, did t= hat=20 ever bring about some nasty debates on the Delphi TI-SIG back in 1992-1993!= !!=20 Actually, the debate then was 4K versus 8K pages, and no-DSR versus a DSR. = A DSR=20 is a paged device driver system.
 
The point was mott then as we were pushing a total memo= ry=20 SYSTEM. Which included a new loader, a macro-assembler, and a linker. Using= the=20 macro-assembler allowed many more features because of the expanded memory. = But,=20 the linker would allow "pages" of anywhere from 4K all the way up to 24K! A= nd,=20 the programmer never needed to worry about paging the memory in and=20 out.
 
Only one program really used the whole system-that bein= g the=20 96K game TI-Nopoly! As everything else used the manual systems. But, even t= hen,=20 a slide-show program combined 3 pages, because TI Bit-map takes up 12K, to = allow=20 for many pictures to be displayed in memory, and cycled through very rapidl= y.=20 Otherwise, with the upper 24K, only two bit-map images could be kept in=20 memory.
 
But, that is enough of the past, and the rather pointle= ss=20 debate on page sizes. Certaintly, any program development in regards to the= =20 memory-mapping on the Bally, will include PC-based software development for= the=20 Bally. And, in addition to the new BASIC, a loader would need to be=20 designed.
 
But, I am in communication with a CPM programmer who ha= s done=20 alot of coding, and is semi-retired, he probably would be of great help in= =20 this.
 
If indeed the Bally can use outside RAM for screen memo= ry,=20 then certaintly a quick experiment can be done with just a 8K SRAM chip, de= coded=20 to be accessed at the beginning of screen RAM. We get a display, and no cra= shes,=20 the next step is to replace the 8K SRAM with a 32K SRAM(only 16K is used) a= nd=20 try some high-res experiments.
 
Since Frank of the Astrocade MESS emulator is no with u= s,=20 let's find out just how good the custom chipset is emulated. Since the MAME= emu=20 has gotten Gorf, WOW, Space Zap, and others that use the Astrocade chipset,= I=20 would think that we can put the MESS Astrocade emu into commercial mode. Fr= ank=20 would need to have a 16K memory block emulated, instead of a 4K, starting a= t the=20 screen RAM address, 4000H and going to 7FFFH. This would allow us to really= test=20 things out.
 
Also, the Bally doesn't have an S-100 bus out. But, I b= et we=20 could design a bus interface to that if needed. I leave that to a very much= down=20 the road project!!! :)
 
Adam, the guy I am talking to has had problems with you= r=20 email, as well as Ballyalley web site. I will ask him to join this group he= re.=20
 
I see two projects going on:
 
1) A CD ROM collection of many Bally  BASIC progra= mms.=20 With also a makewav type program to allow Bally BASIC programs from the PC = to be=20 loaded into the Astrocade
 
2) An ambitious hardware project, requiring a clear and= =20 concise goal. This will have a dual-team approach, with help also from Fran= k in=20 the emulation. This is the expanded memory, with a memory mapper system,=20 allowing the Bally to have much more memory, and the ability to have a=20 high-res(Commercial Mode) for use to programmers and gamers. And, probably = a PIC=20 chip interface for a serial-to-serial connection to the PC and the Bally, f= or a=20 faster transfer rate. I don't think anyone wants to load a big Bally progra= m=20 though the audio port! :)
 
As a side, the testing of a simple composite video cabl= e to=20 eliminate the RF box, as well as an RGB convertor, with possibly the=20 addition/conversion of the luma/chroma into levels that the S-Video TV's ca= n=20 have. This will allow a real cheap and effective way to view the high-res m= ode=20 without needing an RGB monitor. Glenn, I have heard of the Atari crowd doin= g a=20 simple circuit to allow the Y/C output of their 8-bit computers to have S-V= ideo.=20 Could you provide me the info on that?
 
The Bally does have a Video out and a Video in on the 5= 0-pin=20 expansion port. Probably for the Z-Grass systems.
 
Any other ideas out there guys?
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09461.7FFE88A0-- From ballyalley@h... Sun Feb 11 21:59:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 12 Feb 2001 05:59:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 60659 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 05:58:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2001 05:58:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.199) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 05:58:59 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:58:59 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 05:58:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Bally Alley web site trouble? Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:58:59 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2001 05:58:59.0332 (UTC) FILETIME=[E4687C40:01C094B8] From: "Adam Trionfo" James mentioned that someone "has had problems with [my] email, as well as the Ballyalley web site." That is the first I've heard of anyone having trouble emailing me. Anyone else having trouble? My email address is ballyalley@h... Let me spend a minute on the Bally Alley website problem. If anyone is having trouble with PDF downloads not being viewable, I am aware of the problem-- but not of a "real" solution. It only happens sometimes, and I am not even sure why it is happening. I do have a work-around for this problem. Instead of left-clicking on a manual you want to read, right-click and then download and save the file. When you have saved it, you can open it with Adobe Acrobat without any problems. By the way, the files are PDF because most of the documentation has been scanned in and saved as TIFFs. I then convert them to PDF with Adobe Exchange 3.0 or Distiller 3.0 (I use the older versions because that is what I have). If anyone is having trouble downloading (slow downloads, time-outs), let me know. Bally Alley is being hosted at classicgaming.com because it is free and they offer nearly unlimited storage. Even I get bad slowdown sometimes (and I am on a fast connection), so I've complained, but the response made me feel like they didn't believe me. Besides, how can I complain, the hosting is free. The html is really simple, but I would welcome anyone to take a look and see if that might be the problem. I doubt it though. I think the ultimate solution is to mirror my site at a few other places. Anyone have a place that can host the Bally Alley website? If not, then I'll find a few free places to put Bally Alley. It won't be a transparent solution though, I'll have links at the top of the first page with links to other Bally Alley sites in case you are having trouble. That is going to take some doing though, so in the meantime, the best I can say is try again at another time if you keep getting time-outs (a lame solution, I know). Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Mon Feb 12 00:02:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 12 Feb 2001 08:02:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 859 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 08:02:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2001 08:02:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 08:02:05 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.2.52] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2001 08:02:05 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:02:01 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: On comments from James and Glenn Message-ID: <96859p+raf5@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4626 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" It would be of obvious benefit if James is able to test his ideas on the Astrocade emulator. Frank's comments lead me to think that he is willing to help someone help themselves in regards to added features to the emulator. It doesn't seem like he has the time to do major changes. Speaking of the emulator, have you all tried it? If you come across any bugs, describe them and post them here. Frank said he IS willing to do bug-fixes. The goals for the new RAM expansion is a large one, and the goals really do need to be "clear and concise." Following are some of my thoughts. 1) About the discussion on 4K versus 16K page size. I'm treading on very thin ice here. Doesn't this depend on if the Astrocade currently looks at an 8K cartridge as two bank-switched 4K cartridges. If it doesn't (and why would it?), wouldn't that mean that any new hardware would require at least 8K banks if it is going to be able to hold a cartridge image (as does the Blue Ram)? 2) Are we risking the loss of Blue Ram compatibility? I guess so, since a new linker and assembler are mentioned. If the new memory expansion doesn't use the Blue Ram swapping RAM technique, doesn't that mean it would be unable to use all the Astrocade software that used more than 4K? Though most people have none of this, I DO (that is one of the purposes of the CD, to distribute it). All of the software I have is on untested cassettes, of course. 3) I've always called the Commodore 1084 monitors Chroma/Luma monitors. I never know that it is just S-Video. S-Video is quite clear and will do most good, but I'm sure we can all live with composite. Please, anything but RF. 4) Looks like the hardware isn't going to be able to run the Blue Ram BASIC 1.1 cartridge. Most software released for the Astrocade was written in BASIC or Blue Ram BASIC. To be compatible, the new hardware would also require the audio-interface so that the programs could be saved (and loaded). 5) The serial-to-serial connection is a great idea. If we have more memory we will need some alternative way of getting our programs to the machine other than WAV files. However, this should not be done instead of an audio interface, but rather in addition to it. 6) How about a PC keyboard port? The Viper has a 5-pin DIN for an ASCII keyboard. It sure would be nice. Then again, if all future programming is going to be done on a PC anyway-- hey I think I answered my own question. 7) I hope that this new hardware can at least go into a "Blue Ram compatible mode" so that what already exists for an expanded Astrocade can be used. While it would be great to be able to use the commercial hardware modes, it would be a great price to pay if the older software does not work. This brings me to a question. Are we discussing two different hardware RAM projects? A Blue Ram compatible box and another box that allows commercial mode to be accessed? It is beginning to sound that way. A for testing with the Assembly cartridge, I do have that. But I have no documentation for it. I can't load and save programs with it either because I don't have the cassette cables that plug into the joystick port (it uses the ones from the first Bally BASIC). I'm not so sure I would want to save and load at 300 baud anyway. I also have another Astrocade assembler on cassette called General Video Assembler. I have not tried that though (I do have some docs for that). They both require more than 4K, so if the new RAM hardware isn't Blue Ram compatible, they won't work anyway. I agree that any future Astrocade development will be done on the PC. We need to know what readily available tools will work well for Astrocade development. There are many Z-80 tools available already, so this shouldn't be a problem. I am hoping that John can clue us all in on the best freely available cross-assembler (TASM?) and disassembler (dZ80?). I wonder, is there anyone that could "fix" Blue Ram BASIC to work with a new RAM schemes? Of course, I've never seen source for this, but if it becomes available, is something like this possible? More people would be willing to play with the Astrocade if they are able to write something "quick" in BASIC. I am still plowing through all this Astrocade information that I have. I'm sure that hidden away in the pages of "Cursor", "BASIC Express", and the "Arcadian" are treasures that will do us all good to unearth. It is a lot of information. I hope to post what I have scanned in so far after I hear back from Bob Fabris (hopefully soon). Adam Trionfo From jwkrych@n... Mon Feb 12 16:27:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 00:27:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 74800 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 00:27:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 00:27:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 01:28:19 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.203] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AF0418E01A4; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:25:40 -0500 Message-ID: <002a01c09556$4b67e500$cb4f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <96859p+raf5@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] On comments from James and Glenn Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:45:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0952C.61B00880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0952C.61B00880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Guys! I have thought over what concerns Adam and Glenn have mentioned, and here a= re my thoughts. BTW: my buddy from work, John S. will work with us! So, he = will probably work with me on the hardware side.=20 The beauty of the '612 Memory Mapper is that it also has a mode called "PAS= S". Eseentially, the memory is the same 64K decode sections, which we can d= o 2,3 for the cart space, 4,5,6,7 for the screen RAM, and 8,9,A,B,C,D,E,F. = This is what we did with the AMS/SuperAMS for the TI 99/4A. When first powe= rd up, the system looked like a normal 32K expansion card. As a matter of f= act, all memory tests and speed tests were identical to the original card! = The mapper is transparent to the system. We can do this with the Bally, in PASS mode to initially come up. So, we wo= uld have 56K to play with. Remember, the Commercial Mode must bet set from = software to begin, and the Bally starts at Consumer Mode. This allows FULL = combatibility to the Blue RAM. Now, we will need a switch on the '138 3-8 d= ecoder for the 2000H section, which is cart allocated. The neat thing is that even in MAP mode, you can do some really wierd stuff= . Since the registers I mentioned above would be mapable out, you could swi= tch between alot of 4K screens, while your Blue RAM BASIC did the work else= where.=20 Now, you could be in MAP mode, and in Consumer Mode, and have tons of pages= to play with. Or, you could be in Commercial Mode, and have the ability to= have 16K Screen swaps done by just pointing to different 4 4K pages in a r= ow. And this is good for data as well as code-just don't page over your mai= n block-that would be VERY bad. In essence, with two 512K x 8 SRAM chips, you would have 1024K, subtracting= whatever screen mode is being used. With the 2 and 3 registers mapable, yo= u could some really freaky cart-type work as well! This type of setup would= allow for a new modified Blue-RAM BASIC, since the 2000H space would be ou= r main area, and the commands for "BANKx" and "SCRBNKx" would be in that ar= ea, and if the 2000H switch is off, you can't override your main area.=20 Don't get hung up on the 4K page size, when in PASS mode, the system only s= ees the 56K memory(48K if the cart space decoding is left off). Your carts = and memory requirements for the new Basic are left intact. I agree with Adam, the serial-to-serial is in addition to the audio input. So, we get the same machine, with two different flavors, in the same hardwa= re setup. And the best thing is this, it can all be emulated to try things out! And n= one of the chips I have mentioned are custom. Only a PIC interface for the = serial-to-serial interface. Tell me what you think. Regards,=20 Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0952C.61B00880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Guys!
 
I have thought over what concerns Adam and Glenn have=20 mentioned, and here are my thoughts. BTW: my buddy from work, John S. will = work=20 with us! So, he will probably work with me on the hardware side.
 
The beauty of the '612 Memory Mapper is that it also ha= s a=20 mode called "PASS". Eseentially, the memory is the same 64K decode sections= ,=20 which we can do 2,3 for the cart space, 4,5,6,7 for the screen RAM, and=20 8,9,A,B,C,D,E,F. This is what we did with the AMS/SuperAMS for the TI 99/4A= .=20 When first powerd up, the system looked like a normal 32K expansion card. A= s a=20 matter of fact, all memory tests and speed tests were identical to the orig= inal=20 card! The mapper is transparent to the system.
 
We can do this with the Bally, in PASS mode to initiall= y come=20 up. So, we would have 56K to play with. Remember, the Commercial Mode must = bet=20 set from software to begin, and the Bally starts at Consumer Mode. This all= ows=20 FULL combatibility to the Blue RAM. Now, we will need a switch on the '138 = 3-8=20 decoder for the 2000H section, which is cart allocated.
 
The neat thing is that even in MAP mode, you can do som= e=20 really wierd stuff. Since the registers I mentioned above would be mapable = out,=20 you could switch between alot of 4K screens, while your Blue RAM BASIC did = the=20 work elsewhere.
 
Now, you could be in MAP mode, and in Consumer Mode, an= d have=20 tons of pages to play with. Or, you could be in Commercial Mode, and have t= he=20 ability to have 16K Screen swaps done by just pointing to different 4 4K pa= ges=20 in a row. And this is good for data as well as code-just don't page over yo= ur=20 main block-that would be VERY bad.
 
In essence, with two 512K x 8 SRAM chips, you would hav= e=20 1024K, subtracting whatever screen mode is being used. With the 2 and 3=20 registers mapable, you could some really freaky cart-type work as well! Thi= s=20 type of setup would allow for a new modified Blue-RAM BASIC, since the 2000= H=20 space would be our main area, and the commands for "BANKx" and "SCRBNKx" wo= uld=20 be in that area, and if the 2000H switch is off, you can't override your ma= in=20 area.
 
Don't get hung up on the 4K page size, when in PASS mod= e, the=20 system only sees the 56K memory(48K if the cart space decoding is left off)= .=20 Your carts and memory requirements for the new Basic are left=20 intact.
 
I agree with Adam, the serial-to-serial is in addition = to the=20 audio input.
 
So, we get the same machine, with two different flavors= , in=20 the same hardware setup.
 
And the best thing is this, it can all be emulated to t= ry=20 things out! And none of the chips I have mentioned are custom. Only a PIC=20 interface for the serial-to-serial interface.
 
Tell me what you think.
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0952C.61B00880-- From ballyalley@h... Mon Feb 12 17:04:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 01:04:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 17664 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 01:04:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 01:04:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.131) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 01:04:08 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:04:08 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 01:04:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: MESS Astrocade emulation bug-fixer Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:04:08 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2001 01:04:08.0449 (UTC) FILETIME=[DE3BB710:01C09558] From: "Adam Trionfo" I received this email today. It is from someone working on the Astrocade drivers. The latest version of MESS seems to support the keypad and more (last time I used MESS, just a few months ago, it didn't support this stuff). If you haven't tried the MESS emulation, then I urge you to try it. Play around with the Astrocade and help report problems with the emulation. I'm going to reply to this person and let him know I'll get back with him about whatever bugs we find. Adam Hi Adam, I'm a member of the MESSDEV team: Frank Palazzolo, the maintainer of the Astrocade driver in MESS would like to fix it once and for all. Since you seem to know the ins and outs of the system, and you know MESS too, I'd like to ask you a favor: could you send me a complete list of the bugs you have experienced (both related to Astrocade games and current hardware emulation) and a list of all the unsupported features (i.e. custom controllers, memory expansions, cassette recorder and so on... everything that's Astrocade related and hasn't been emulated yet!) MESS already supports direct loading of .wav files, so if you have infos about how data are written to tape it will be very easy to support also this feature in the driver. Thanks in advance, Stefano 'JoJo' Priore stefano.priore@k... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cybpunks@m... Mon Feb 12 19:06:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 03:06:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 60214 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 03:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 03:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ej.egroups.com) (10.1.10.49) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 03:06:03 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@m... Received: from [10.1.2.211] by ej.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2001 03:06:01 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 03:06:00 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Blue Ram Message-ID: <96a8ao+vlje@e...> In-Reply-To: <001801c0948b$69a59c40$834f1cd8@j...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 418 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.92 From: cybpunks@m... Where did you get this information? The only info I got about the expansion port was from the old Arcadians, I believe, which indicated that it was analogous to an S-100 bus. BTW, I don't think the ZGrass generated any video internally. I think it just kicked the unit into commercial mode. >> The Bally does have a Video out and a Video in on the 50-pin expansion port. Probably for the Z-Grass systems. << From cybpunks@m... Mon Feb 12 19:28:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 03:28:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 93516 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 03:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 03:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 03:28:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@m... Received: from [10.1.10.133] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2001 03:28:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 03:28:31 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On comments from James and Glenn Message-ID: <96a9kv+q098@e...> In-Reply-To: <002a01c09556$4b67e500$cb4f1cd8@j...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1520 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.92 From: cybpunks@m... --- In ballyalley@y..., "james w krych" wrote: > Don't get hung up on the 4K page size, when in PASS mode, the system only sees the 56K memory(48K if the cart space decoding is left off). Your carts and memory requirements for the new Basic are left intact. < I do like the idea of 4K page sizes as it matches up with the screen RAM in consumer mode. One could to some interesting double buffering and page flipping as you describe. If you went to a 16K window, then you would waste a lot of memory if you tried doing double-buffering in Consumer mode. It would be interesting to see how double buffering might work on the Bally. A lot of the OS routines are written with the idea of automating movement over frames. That might break if the memory swaps. Also, the only way you could possibly get this to work is to have everything other than screen RAM outside of the screen bitmap area, unlike all current Astrocade games which steal away screen bitmap RAM for scratchpad. > I agree with Adam, the serial-to-serial is in addition to the audio input. The ultimate would be to write a bidirectional I/O driver library for the Bally so that the PC can act as a flat out file server (read and write). The system would work somthing like the SIO2PC or Ape cables between the Atari 8-bit and the PC. That way you could have modular games without having to manually load up segments. That would give the Astrocade pretty much the same functionality as any 8-bit home computer. From cybpunks@m... Mon Feb 12 21:44:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 05:44:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 59858 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 05:44:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 05:44:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls02.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.15) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 06:45:28 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1D5iLG23630 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:44:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010212214418.03012768@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:45:53 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: A/V mods In-Reply-To: <982020323.270.27921.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders At 11:25 PM 2/12/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Glenn, I have heard of the Atari crowd doing a simple circuit to allow the >Y/C output of their 8-bit computers to have S-Video. Could you provide me >the info on that? There are plenty of A/V mods for the 8-bit home computers, except the 800, which doesn't need one since it's monitor output is fine. I'm waiting for Chris Wilkson to finish a new A/V mod for the 2600. I have an earlier breadboard model he did for me that I'm very happy with, composite, Y/C, and dual mono audio. Glenn Saunders - Producer - Cyberpunks Entertainment Personal homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/1698 Cyberpunks Entertainment: http://cyberpunks.uni.cc From jwkrych@n... Tue Feb 13 02:37:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 10:37:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 45654 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 10:37:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 10:37:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 10:37:38 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.105] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AE15327703B8; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 05:36:05 -0500 Message-ID: <001c01c095ab$91b0c040$694f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <96a8ao+vlje@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Blue Ram Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 05:56:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09581.A7F142A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09581.A7F142A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Glenn! The 50-pin expansion bus is found in the Bally Service manual, as well as t= he Bally Basic Manual. As for the Video in and out pins, who knows, somebod= y out there does! Regards, Jim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: cybpunks@m...=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 10:06 PM Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Blue Ram Where did you get this information? The only info I got about the=20 expansion port was from the old Arcadians, I believe, which indicated=20 that it was analogous to an S-100 bus. BTW, I don't think the ZGrass=20 generated any video internally. I think it just kicked the unit into=20 commercial mode. >> The Bally does have a Video out and a Video in on the 50-pin=20 expansion port. Probably for the Z-Grass systems. << Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 4/R=3D1/*http://domains.yahoo.com"> pmail/S=3D1700006497:N/A=3D56= 7144/R=3D2/*http://domains.yahoo.com"> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09581.A7F142A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Glenn!
 
The 50-pin expansion bus is found in the Bally Service = manual,=20 as well as the Bally Basic Manual. As for the Video in and out pins, who kn= ows,=20 somebody out there does!
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 cybpunks@m...
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 10= :06=20 PM
Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Blue Ram=


Where did you get this information?  The only= info=20 I got about the
expansion port was from the old Arcadians, I believe,= =20 which indicated
that it was analogous to an S-100 bus.  BTW, I d= on't=20 think the ZGrass
generated any video internally.  I think it jus= t=20 kicked the unit into
commercial mode.

>>
The Bally do= es=20 have a Video out and a Video in on the 50-pin
expansion port. Probabl= y for=20 the Z-Grass systems.
<<



Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09581.A7F142A0-- From ballyalley@h... Tue Feb 13 09:49:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 17:49:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 33861 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 17:49:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 17:49:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.241) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 17:49:31 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:49:30 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:49:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Stefano 'JoJo' Priore - Astrocade Emulator Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:49:30 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2001 17:49:30.0669 (UTC) FILETIME=[511405D0:01C095E5] From: "Adam Trionfo" February 13, 2001 I received another letter in regards to the Astrocade emulator. It is included here. Adam Trionfo Hi Adam, nice to hear good news from you! Anyway, I'm not the writer of the Astrocade driver, Frank Palazzolo is! Please don't give undeserved credits to me ;) I don't wouldn't that Frank reads your post on the Astrocde board and thinks I'm "stealing" his work ;)))) Bye, and thanks for the help! I'm eager to know what still misses in the Astrocade driver! Stefano 'JoJo' Priore stefano.priore@k... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From solder_guy@m... Tue Feb 13 22:22:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 06:22:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 59246 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 06:22:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 06:22:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hm.egroups.com) (10.1.10.45) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 06:22:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: solder_guy@m... Received: from [10.1.10.122] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2001 06:22:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 06:22:17 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Controller adapter Message-ID: <96d86p+e903@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 194 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 38.203.176.66 From: solder_guy@m... Hi .. Just want to post to say I am here also. I am working on the atari -> bally controller adapter and will be updating that part of the FAQ in the next 2 days. Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA From ballyalley@h... Wed Feb 14 17:34:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@g... Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 01:34:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 52497 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 01:34:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 01:34:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.91) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 01:34:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:34:16 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 01:34:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: What Robert Fabris says about the Arcadian Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:34:15 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Feb 2001 01:34:16.0050 (UTC) FILETIME=[68793D20:01C096EF] From: "Adam Trionfo" February 14, 2001 I recieved this email from Bob Fabris today. He explains what can and can't be done with the Arcadian and its programs. I have provided my thoughts after his email. Adam --------- Howdy Adam, a little more to your letter of last week. Firstly, I did dispose of virtually everything, Larry Anderson picked up the stuff about 6 months ago. All I have left are the subscription lists. Chuck Ottman has made a CD of the Arcadian. If you want to post the issues on the website, ok. A small desire, the early issues may have a typo in the listings, because they had to be hand-typed. It would be a good idea to put in a note that one should check the next one or two issues in case there is a correction statement to a program a reader may want to enter. I have written a general history of the operation that takes up about 5 pages, this would be appropriate for your CD. It's in Word. I have no idea where anyone is, anymore. I have been in contact with Jamie, and Larry Cuba via email, noone else. I found quite a bit of stuff, some duplicated, thru searches - this was a couple of years ago. Larry's FAQ, etc. The last issue was 8/86. Quarterly the last two years. I believe that duplicating the listings, with my permission, is ok. Creating something that uses a program (like a cassette) is probably not ok. I've looked at your Bally Alley - nice. Have yet to look at the mailing list. Have fun!! Best wishes, Bob --------- Now my comments: We need to find Larry Anderson and see if he is willing to contribute to this project. I hope so. I'm sure that he has many rare items, perhaps even some that are unique. Chuck Ottman already has made an Arcadian CD? I was surprised to hear that. I've never heard of it, has anyone else? We need to contact this person and see what he is up to. It will be to everyone's advantage to work together. We will obviously get more done that way because we won't be duplicating other people's efforts. It is nice to get the official end date of the Arcadian. I've not seen that anywhere else. I need to clear up what Bob means by, "Creating something that uses a program (like a cassette) is probably not ok." I'm not sure if he means duplicating the official Arcadian cassette compilations that were made along with Richard Houser (I DO have permission from Richard-- that is, if it turns out he can grant it.) or just putting any software on the CD at all. Richard Houser, by the way, ran The Source (the place where everyone ordered cassette programs from), and I have his entire collection of cassettes. I need to track Richard down, he moved last year. I think it is of paramount importance that we get these programs for the Astrocade off the cassettes. Pretty soon they will be lost. I hope we can work something out with Bob. Glenn, any tips here? I'll be in contact with Bob asking him the obvious questions that his response brings up (people's email addresses that we need, asking for the Word document he spoke of, etc). Does anyone have anything else I should ask him? Now is the time to come forward. I'll reply to Bob in a few days while I wait for some comments from this discussion group. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cybpunks@m... Thu Feb 15 09:18:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 17:18:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 66347 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 17:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 17:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls02.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.15) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 17:17:17 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1FHHFx05797 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:17:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010215091649.03093de8@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:18:42 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Larry Anderson/Arcadians In-Reply-To: <982247919.270.8559.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders This should be Larry's email address if he hasn't changed ISPs. "Larry Anderson Jr." I also think Jerry Greiner (aka JerryG) has a full collection of Arcadians. I think that's where I got mine before I sold them off again. I can't remember where I sold my Astrocade stuff... I may have just traded it back into Jerry or something for 2600 carts. It's been about 7 years. From ballyalley@h... Mon Feb 19 12:19:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 19 Feb 2001 20:19:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 74361 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 20:18:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 19 Feb 2001 20:18:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.139) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 20:18:44 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:18:43 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:18:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade MESS Emulation Observations Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:18:43 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2001 20:18:43.0812 (UTC) FILETIME=[280BBA40:01C09AB1] From: "Adam Trionfo" February 19, 2001 I downloaded the latest beta version of the MESS Astrocade emulator (mess32b-037b11.zip) from http://mess.emuverse.com/ It DOES support the keypad now. As I expected, it supports it the same way the Astrocade does: the Color and Word scheme. This wouldn't be too bad if the PC keyboard layout was similar, but I can't figure it out. For instance, pressing '0' turns the screen yellow, but give the corresponding colors for red. Not sure why that is. Some keys are repeated (both 's' and 'c' seem to be GO). The screen resolution that the emulator supports is weird too, it makes the screen tall and narrow. The emulator screen display is 160 x 204, which is neither High-resolution OR Low-resolution, but a combination of both. Low-res, the mode that the Astrocade supports with no added memory (AKA Consumer mode) is 160 x 102. High-res (AKA Commercial mode), which DOES require extra memory, is 320 x 204. However, the emulator supports a hybrid mode, and I can't seem to change it (the Display tab in MESS does not change the Astrocade display mode, but rather the resolution of Windows). A normal Astrocade resolution of 160 x 102 would fix the strange height and width display. A fixed screen mode also means that perhaps the emulator would be unable to support Commercial Mode. Perhaps it presumes Consumer mode? I don't know where to find MESS Astrocade documentation either. It isn't included with the distribution. It must exist somewhere, but there is no link on the MESS page. I hate to bug either of the people working on the emulator for something trivial like this, so does anyone know where to look? Besides the PC keyboard layout, Astrocade docs would have the information to save BASIC programs as WAV files (as we have been informed that this is supported). Before I continue using the emulator, I would like to know where the Astrocade docs are. I am also still interested in anyone else's success with the MESS Astrocade emulator as well. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jwkrych@n... Mon Feb 19 15:53:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 19 Feb 2001 23:53:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 24815 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 23:33:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2001 23:33:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 00:34:26 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.104] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id ACE51DE401D6; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:31:49 -0500 Message-ID: <004401c09ace$f477b440$684f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade MESS Emulation Observations Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:52:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09AA5.0AD841C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09AA5.0AD841C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adam! The MESS emulator is indeed rather wierd in the resolution used. I hope the= author here can change the emulation to be an accurate consumer mode, 160 = x 102. Since Wizzard of Wor and other arcade emulations do a fine job on th= e Commercial Mode of the chipset.=20 Probably the emulation was done with no inclination to actually do the high= -res mode. Which is weird, we can do quite a bit with the emulator, as comp= ared to actual Astrocades, without a physical hardware addition. At least now we have keypad emulation, just as much a pain as in the real A= strocade, but that is very good for now-it would allow us with the Machine = Language monitor, to try several routines and such.=20 Can we get the author to have a real representation of the Consumer Mode, a= t least for the developmental team? Regards, Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09AA5.0AD841C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Adam!
 
The MESS emulator is indeed rather wierd in the resolut= ion=20 used. I hope the author here can change the emulation to be an accurate con= sumer=20 mode, 160 x 102. Since Wizzard of Wor and other arcade emulations do a fine= job=20 on the Commercial Mode of the chipset.
 
Probably the emulation was done with no inclination to= =20 actually do the high-res mode. Which is weird, we can do quite a bit with t= he=20 emulator, as compared to actual Astrocades, without a physical hardware=20 addition.
 
At least now we have keypad emulation, just as much a p= ain as=20 in the real Astrocade, but that is very good for now-it would allow us with= the=20 Machine Language monitor, to try several routines and such.
 
Can we get the author to have a real representation of = the=20 Consumer Mode, at least for the developmental team?
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C09AA5.0AD841C0-- From palazzol@h... Mon Feb 19 16:47:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 00:47:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 40251 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 00:44:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 00:44:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.142) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 00:44:08 -0000 Received: from pagels ([24.2.73.141]) by femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010220004408.KGSP4347.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@p...> for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:44:08 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:42:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade MESS Emulation Observations Reply-to: palazzol@h... Message-ID: <3A91772D.16658.19390A45@l...> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) From: "Frank Palazzolo" > As I expected, it supports it the same way the Astrocade does: the > Color and Word scheme. This wouldn't be too bad if the PC keyboard > layout was similar, but I can't figure it out. For instance, pressing > '0' turns the screen yellow, but give the corresponding colors for > red. Not sure why that is. Some keys are repeated (both 's' and 'c' > seem to be GO). I have to take a look at the key mapping that I used for that. MESS has undergone a few changes since I added that driver, so it may be a little screwy. There is now a facility in MESS to map the keys in a more sane fashion. > The screen resolution that the emulator supports is weird too, it > makes the screen tall and narrow. The emulator screen display is 160 > x 204, which is neither High-resolution OR Low-resolution, but a > combination of both. Actually, the emulation is 160x102, but it is being rendered to a 160x204 final bitmap. I did this to keep the code that is in MAME for the bally games as similar as possible to the MESS code at the time. Ideally, we should be using the same emulation code in both programs, since the chips are identical. This is not quite true at the moment. The MESS version will only do Consumer mode, and the MAME version will only do Commerical mode. IIRC there is not a lot of difference in the code, however. > I don't know where to find MESS Astrocade documentation either. It > isn't included with the distribution. It must exist somewhere, but > there is no link on the MESS page. Well, MESS has always been a bit light on docs. The readme file explains the non-driver-specific interface, and I can write up something about the keypad. > Besides the PC keyboard layout, Astrocade docs would have the > information > to save BASIC programs as WAV files (as we have been informed that > this is supported). Hmm...I never added that. Maybe someone else did? (Something else to check) I'm queuing up all this and will look at it as soon as I get a chance. Thanks, Frank From ballyalley@h... Tue Feb 20 09:17:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:17:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 11487 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:16:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:16:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.209) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 18:17:30 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:16:25 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:16:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Cc: ballyalley@h... Subject: Astrocade FAQ: Text and Controller adapter Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:16:25 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Feb 2001 17:16:25.0610 (UTC) FILETIME=[DAC84EA0:01C09B60] From: "Adam Trionfo" February 20, 2001 Will you be able to send me your changes to the Astrocade FAQ as a text attechment? If not, just let me know so that I am not left waiting. How are the changes to the controller section going? I have been contacting the various people referred to in the Astrocade FAQ. I even managed to find the new email address of Dale Smith (of R&L Enterprises), but I have not heard back from him. Hope to hear back from you soon. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cybpunks@m... Tue Feb 20 11:28:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 19:28:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 96441 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 19:28:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 19:28:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 19:28:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: cybpunks@m... Received: from [10.1.10.134] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2001 19:28:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:28:39 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Astrocade MESS Emulation Observations Message-ID: <96ugh7+b75l@e...> In-Reply-To: <004401c09ace$f477b440$684f1cd8@j...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1770 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.92 From: cybpunks@m... >>Actually, the emulation is 160x102, but it is being rendered to a 160x204 final bitmap. I did this to keep the code that is in MAME for the bally games as similar as possible to the MESS code at the time. Ideally, we should be using the same emulation code in both programs, since the chips are identical. This is not quite true at the moment. The MESS version will only do Consumer mode, and the MAME version will only do Commerical mode. IIRC there is not a lot of difference in the code, however.<< It should not be rendered to a 160x204 bitmap. It should be pixel doubled or quadrupled depending on the mode, to a 320x200 or 640x480 VGA mode. Otherwise the pixel aspect ratio is totally off, as it is now. BTW, these days there is no appreciable speed advantage in looking for the lowest possible VGA resolutions. Scaling up to even 640x480 should be fine. The only issues here are for overscan. The Bally DOES draw the overscan area insofar as it can color it. This is similar to many systems including the Atari 8-bit. This area of the screen is not bitmapped, but it is drawn-to by the chipset, and visible on all televisions. I don't know how the emulator handles that, but anyway, you are really talking about a final screen that is wider than 320 and taller than 204 pixels. It's more like 376x240 or so. When Brad Mott was still working on ActiveStella I made sure he addressed his in his 2600 emulation, so that the native 1:1 screen was not 320x200 but somewhat larger on all 4 sides. A lot of emulations ignore overscan for one reason or another. Unfortunately it doesn't map itself 1:1 onto any existing VGA modes, but if you go to a resizable DirectX window rather than fullscreen, it's easier to implement. From mfk98@y... Tue Feb 20 12:11:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mfk98@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 20:11:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 42244 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 20:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 20:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hn.egroups.com) (10.1.2.221) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 20:11:34 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mfk98@y... Received: from [10.1.10.100] by hn.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2001 20:11:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:11:31 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Power Transformer for Bally Astrocade Message-ID: <96uj1j+bngl@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 484 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 209.49.216.242 From: mfk98@y... I recently found an Bally Astrocade game in its original box with about a dozen games and four controllers. The problem is that when I plug the power transformer into a 120volt outlet the unit does not power up. After future investation the power transformer might of been damage and that is probably why the unit is not getting power. What I need is some information on where I can get a replacement power transformer for this unit. Any information would be a great help. Mk From solder_guy@m... Tue Feb 20 13:02:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 21:02:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 92459 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 21:02:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 21:02:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail20.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.51) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 21:02:34 -0000 Received: œby mail20.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA31481; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:02:33 -0800 Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:02:33 -0800 Message-Id: <200102202102.NAA31481@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.42.210] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Astrocade FAQ: Text and Controller adapter From: "solder_guy Last Name" Hey .. I'm here ... I have the controller info and will send to you tomorrow ... Other changes? Rob ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From palazzol@h... Tue Feb 20 15:33:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Feb 2001 23:33:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 59577 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 23:19:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 23:19:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.142) by mta3 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:20:24 -0000 Received: from pagels ([24.2.73.141]) by femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010220231919.IYY25662.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@p...> for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:19:19 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:17:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Astrocade MESS Emulation Observations Reply-to: palazzol@h... Message-ID: <3A92B4C4.4877.1E11D05C@l...> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <96ugh7+b75l@e...> References: <004401c09ace$f477b440$684f1cd8@j...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) From: "Frank Palazzolo" > It should not be rendered to a 160x204 bitmap. It should be pixel > doubled or quadrupled depending on the mode, to a 320x200 or 640x480 > VGA mode. Otherwise the pixel aspect ratio is totally off, as it is > now. Correct, in at least the Windows version of MESS - MESS32. I did the development of that driver on the home platform, DOS, which stretches the screen to compensate. I didn't realize what this did on the other ports - woops :) I can fix that. > BTW, these days there is no appreciable speed advantage in looking for > the lowest possible VGA resolutions. Scaling up to even 640x480 > should be fine. The way that MESS is architected, rendering is usually done to the smallest reasonable bitmap, and then the platform dependant code does any stretching as necessary. I think MESS32 supports the scaling - it should. The DOS version does. > The only issues here are for overscan. The Bally DOES draw the > overscan area insofar as it can color it. Yup, so far I've ignored it, but it should be added, and it shouldn't be hard. I wonder if it would behave differently with the Commercial mode, actually. Thanks for this feedback. It's important to remember that because MESS is designed to be platform-independant, some behaviors are written in by the driver writer, and some are consequences or limitations of the platform-dependant code someone else wrote. Thanks, Frank From solder_guy@m... Wed Feb 21 02:57:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 10:57:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 79196 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 10:57:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 10:57:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail20.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.51) by mta3 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 11:58:04 -0000 Received: œby mail20.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA08543; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 02:57:00 -0800 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 02:57:00 -0800 Message-Id: <200102211057.CAA08543@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.33.34] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Power Transformer for Bally Astrocade From: "solder_guy Last Name" >>After future investation the power transformer might of been damage and that is probably why the unit is not getting power.<< The adapter is supposed to put out 7.5 v and 11.5 v AC. Check for broken wires before giving up on that Adapter. Replacements are difficult to come by. Any suggestions for a generic replacement? Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Wed Feb 21 13:24:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 21:24:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 60729 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 21:24:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 21:24:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.172) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 21:24:13 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:24:12 -0800 Received: from 24.130.216.135 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:24:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Many additions to Bally Alley website Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:24:12 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2001 21:24:12.0473 (UTC) FILETIME=[A2895290:01C09C4C] From: "Adam Trionfo" Fabruary 21, 2001 I've made MANY additions to the Bally Alley website today. I've added four issues of Cursor, and many Astrocade advertisements from the early eighties. I have also rearranged the layout a bit. You can see exactly what changes I've made by going here: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/Whats_New.html Keep a lookout, because soon I will be posting the new Astrocade FAQ in text format. About time too, after five years, it is REALLY needing some updates. Thanks to Rob Mitchell for all the work he is putting into that. I'll post an exclusive link (here on this group) to the preliminary version of the FAQ after Rob and I are done with it (soon). I am looking forward to hearing from people about the corrections, additions, and other changes that we have made. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From palazzol@h... Wed Feb 21 18:58:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 02:58:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 93122 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 02:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 02:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.141) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 03:59:43 -0000 Received: from pagels ([24.2.73.141]) by femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010222025838.EPAO1870.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@p...> for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:58:38 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:57:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Astrocade MESS Emulation Reply-to: palazzol@h... Message-ID: <3A9439C3.25831.5FC511@l...> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3A91772D.16658.19390A45@l...> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) From: "Frank Palazzolo" Hi Guys, Well, I'm getting a chance to check out a few quick things in the MESS Bally emulator... I quickly fixed the emulator to render to a 320x204 bitmap internally, so this should fix the aspect ratio problems for now. No quick fix on the border region, still checking. I looked at the keypad mappings and it looks like I goofed, S is mapped to 2 keys! Mind you, as long as you pick unique default key mappings, you can always customize them yourself through the menus later - but I had broken that. So, while I'm on the topic of default key mappings, does anyone have any good ideas? When you consider that many keys already have a function in the generic emulator, plus we have 2 4-way joysticks, 2 knobs, and a 24-key keypad...we're running into constraints. Not to mention supporting 2 more controllers, which hasn't been added yet but could easily be. I'm leaning towards using the entire numeric keypad (except num- lock) and then mapping separate keys for 8 remaining keypad keys. Does it make more sense to preserve the meaning of the keys or the layout? Finally, it looks like there is some support for handling tapes in MESS now, but the driver isn't using them - it's new since I wrote it. Thanks, Frank P.S. - for now, here are the current, goofy default keymappings cut from the code. These will change shortly: "%", KEYCODE_O "/", KEYCODE_SLASH "x", KEYCODE_U "-", KEYCODE_PGDN "+", KEYCODE_PGUP "=", KEYCODE_Q "Down", KEYCODE_S "CH", KEYCODE_H "9", KEYCODE_9 "6", KEYCODE_6 "3", KEYCODE_3 ".", KEYCODE_COMMA "Up", KEYCODE_W "MS", KEYCODE_S "8", KEYCODE_8 "5", KEYCODE_5 "2", KEYCODE_2 "0", KEYCODE_0 "C", KEYCODE_C "MR", KEYCODE_V "7", KEYCODE_7 "4", KEYCODE_4 "1", KEYCODE_1 "CE", KEYCODE_E From jwkrych@n... Wed Feb 21 19:40:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 03:40:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 87863 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 03:40:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 03:40:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 04:41:48 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.189] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A9DE1B120334; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:39:10 -0500 Message-ID: <002e01c09c83$d9668f80$bd4f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <3A9439C3.25831.5FC511@l...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade MESS Emulation Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:59:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01C09C59.EFBDF540" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C09C59.EFBDF540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Frank! Your hard work is really appreciated! Regards, Jim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Frank Palazzolo=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 9:57 PM Subject: [ballyalley] Astrocade MESS Emulation Hi Guys, Well, I'm getting a chance to check out a few quick things in the=20 MESS Bally emulator... I quickly fixed the emulator to render to a 320x204 bitmap=20 internally, so this should fix the aspect ratio problems for now. No quick fix on the border region, still checking. I looked at the keypad mappings and it looks like I goofed, S is=20 mapped to 2 keys! Mind you, as long as you pick unique default=20 key mappings, you can always customize them yourself through=20 the menus later - but I had broken that. So, while I'm on the topic of default key mappings, does anyone=20 have any good ideas? When you consider that many keys already=20 have a function in the generic emulator, plus we have 2 4-way=20 joysticks, 2 knobs, and a 24-key keypad...we're running into=20 constraints. Not to mention supporting 2 more controllers, which=20 hasn't been added yet but could easily be. I'm leaning towards using the entire numeric keypad (except num- lock) and then mapping separate keys for 8 remaining keypad keys. Does it make more sense to preserve the meaning of the keys or=20 the layout? Finally, it looks like there is some support for handling tapes in=20 MESS now, but the driver isn't using them - it's new since I wrote it. Thanks, Frank P.S. - for now, here are the current, goofy default keymappings cut=20 from the code. These will change shortly: "%", KEYCODE_O "/", KEYCODE_SLASH "x", KEYCODE_U "-", KEYCODE_PGDN "+", KEYCODE_PGUP "=3D", KEYCODE_Q "Down", KEYCODE_S "CH", KEYCODE_H "9", KEYCODE_9 "6", KEYCODE_6 "3", KEYCODE_3 ".", KEYCODE_COMMA "Up", KEYCODE_W "MS", KEYCODE_S "8", KEYCODE_8 "5", KEYCODE_5 "2", KEYCODE_2 "0", KEYCODE_0 "C", KEYCODE_C "MR", KEYCODE_V "7", KEYCODE_7 "4", KEYCODE_4 "1", KEYCODE_1 "CE", KEYCODE_E Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click here for Classmates.com=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C09C59.EFBDF540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Frank!
 
Your hard work is really appreciated!
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 Frank Pala= zzolo=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001= 9:57=20 PM
Subject: [ballyalley] Astrocade ME= SS=20 Emulation


Hi Guys,

Well, I'm getting a chance to chec= k out=20 a few quick things in the
MESS Bally emulator...

I quickly fix= ed=20 the emulator to render to a 320x204 bitmap
internally, so this should= fix=20 the aspect ratio problems for now.
No quick fix on the border region, = still=20 checking.

I looked at the keypad mappings and it looks like I goof= ed, S=20 is
mapped to 2 keys!  Mind you, as long as you pick unique defau= lt=20
key mappings, you can always customize them yourself through
the = menus=20 later - but I had broken that.

So, while I'm on the topic of defau= lt=20 key mappings, does anyone
have any good ideas?  When you conside= r=20 that many keys already
have a function in the generic emulator, plus = we=20 have 2 4-way
joysticks, 2 knobs, and a 24-key keypad...we're running = into=20
constraints.  Not to mention supporting 2 more controllers, whic= h=20
hasn't been added yet but could easily be.

I'm leaning towards= =20 using the entire numeric keypad (except num-
lock) and then mapping=20 separate keys for 8 remaining keypad keys.
Does it make more sense to= =20 preserve the meaning of the keys or
the layout?

Finally, it lo= oks=20 like there is some support for handling tapes in
MESS now, but the dr= iver=20 isn't using them - it's new since I wrote=20 it.

Thanks,
Frank

P.S. - for now, here are the current, = goofy=20 default keymappings cut
from the code.  These will change=20 shortly:

"%", KEYCODE_O
"/", KEYCODE_SLASH
"x", KEYCODE_U"-",=20 KEYCODE_PGDN
"+", KEYCODE_PGUP
"=3D", KEYCODE_Q

"Down",=20 KEYCODE_S
"CH", KEYCODE_H
"9", KEYCODE_9
"6", KEYCODE_6
"3",= =20 KEYCODE_3
".", KEYCODE_COMMA

"Up", KEYCODE_W
"MS",=20 KEYCODE_S
"8", KEYCODE_8
"5", KEYCODE_5
"2", KEYCODE_2
"0",=20 KEYCODE_0

"C", KEYCODE_C
"MR", KEYCODE_V
"7", KEYCODE_7
"= 4",=20 KEYCODE_4
"1", KEYCODE_1
"CE", KEYCODE_E




Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C09C59.EFBDF540-- From slapdash@e... Wed Feb 21 22:13:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 06:13:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 260 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 06:13:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 06:13:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 06:13:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: slapdash@e... Received: from [10.1.2.11] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2001 06:13:19 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:13:15 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Commercial vs Consumer Message-ID: <972alr+80lu@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 253 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.229.148.163 From: "Russ Perry Jr" Has anyone tried comparing the ROMs of the home versions of Galaxian and Wizard of Wor to the arcade versions? There are rumors that they have the same code (at least partly) and only differ in the video resolution, but is this really true or not? From jwkrych@n... Thu Feb 22 16:03:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 00:03:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 22489 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 00:03:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 00:03:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 01:04:17 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.126] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A8649AD003AC; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:01:40 -0500 Message-ID: <002c01c09d2e$a2abd300$7e4f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <972alr+80lu@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Commercial vs Consumer Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:21:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01C09D04.B91401A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C09D04.B91401A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Russ! I know that the total size of the W.O.W. Rom is much bigger than the cart. = But, since the game was also programmed by the same guys, and much of the s= ame hardware, I would have to say that 60% or more of the code is similar. Regards, Jim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Russ Perry Jr=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 1:13 AM Subject: [ballyalley] Commercial vs Consumer Has anyone tried comparing the ROMs of the home versions of Galaxian=20 and Wizard of Wor to the arcade versions? There are rumors that they=20 have the same code (at least partly) and only differ in the video=20 resolution, but is this really true or not? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click here for Classmates.com=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C09D04.B91401A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Russ!
 
I know that the total size of the W.O.W. Rom is much bi= gger=20 than the cart. But, since the game was also programmed by the same guys, an= d=20 much of the same hardware, I would have to say that 60% or more of the code= is=20 similar.
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 Ru= ss Perry=20 Jr
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 = 1:13=20 AM
Subject: [ballyalley] Commercial v= s=20 Consumer

Has anyone tried comparing the ROMs of the home versio= ns of=20 Galaxian
and Wizard of Wor to the arcade versions?  There are ru= mors=20 that they
have the same code (at least partly) and only differ in the= =20 video
resolution, but is this really true or not?



Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C09D04.B91401A0-- From slapdash@e... Thu Feb 22 19:39:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 03:39:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 97867 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 03:39:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 03:39:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 04:40:12 -0000 Received: from [207.229.149.49] (207-229-149-49.d.enteract.com [207.229.149.49]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA34950 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:39:05 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from slapdash@e...) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002c01c09d2e$a2abd300$7e4f1cd8@j...> References: <972alr+80lu@e...> <002c01c09d2e$a2abd300$7e4f1cd8@j...> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:36:21 -0600 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Commercial vs Consumer Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr I know that the total size of the W.O.W. Rom is much bigger than the cart. Can you define "much bigger"? I mean, I'm sure there had to be some extra code to handle coin acquisition, but I doubt it would be much. But, since the game was also programmed by the same guys, and much of the same hardware, I would have to say that 60% or more of the code is similar. The rumor is that it's exact, and that might lend some credence to the idea of upgrading the Astrocade to the higher resolution. If your assertion is correct, the rumor is not. ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Perry Jr Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 1:13 AM Has anyone tried comparing the ROMs of the home versions of Galaxian and Wizard of Wor to the arcade versions? There are rumors that they have the same code (at least partly) and only differ in the video resolution, but is this really true or not? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 15:30:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 23:30:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 25862 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 23:30:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 23:30:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hn.egroups.com) (10.1.2.221) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 23:30:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.10.132] by hn.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 23:30:22 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:30:18 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade FAQ update Message-ID: <9894ma+ne3h@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 751 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" Rob Mitchell and I have been in the process of updating the Astrocade FAQ that Lance Squire created in 1996. We are nearly done and ready to release it. It has been broken-down into three parts: 1) Astrocade FAQ 2) Astrocade Programming FAQ 3) Astrocade Software FAQ (carts and cassettes) I am posting here for two reasons: 1) To announce the new release of this FAQ. 2) I'll email the FAQ to anyone that would like to look the FAQ over because they feel they might be able to have something to add. The main Astrocade FAQ is 99% done (for this release). The other two need major overhauls. Contact me very soon if you would like to look the main FAQ over. I will post the new address of the FAQ when it is released. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 15:36:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 23:36:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 38399 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 23:36:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 23:36:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch.egroups.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 23:36:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.2.4] by ch.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 23:36:00 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:35:59 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade manual help Message-ID: <98950v+4u3a@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 539 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" I need help with: 1) SCANS - Cover scans of manuals I don't have. Here is what I do have already: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/pics/manual_covers/manual_cove rs.html 2) TYPE-IN - I am also looking for some people to help type-in the game manuals. Some just need to be converted from html to text, while others would be typed in from pdf files that I send you. After everything is in ASCII files, then I will see what is missing and ask for manuals that are missing. Any help would be gladly accepted. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 15:38:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 23:38:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 46680 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 23:38:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 23:38:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch.egroups.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 23:38:57 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.2.4] by ch.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 23:38:57 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:38:56 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: BASIC Express newsletters needed Message-ID: <98956g+hiui@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 270 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" I have added all issues of CURSOR to Bally Alley. I have also added the first three issues of THE BASIC EXPRESS. I am looking for any issues I am missing. Check out what I have already here: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/cursor/cursor.html Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 15:44:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 23:44:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 53802 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 23:44:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 23:44:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.91) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 23:44:00 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.10.100] by jj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 23:44:00 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:44:00 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade Tetris Message-ID: <9895g0+uk1t@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 169 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" Anyone willing to bet that the first new BASIC game for this system is going to be Tetris? Someone out there has probably already written it, I'm sure. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 15:54:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 23:54:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 80803 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 23:53:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 23:53:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mv.egroups.com) (10.1.1.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 23:53:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.2.225] by mv.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 23:53:58 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:53:55 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade BASIC programming hints Message-ID: <98962j+j7k4@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 977 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" Is there anyone that has been playing around with Astrocade BASIC? I would be curious to know what users have done in recent years. Until I put up ballyalley.com, it was nearly impossible to find information on BASIC except for the Bally FAQ. Now though, with the newsetters, manuals and docs, people can try that BASIC Cartridge that they never could have really used before. Here are some hints if you do try your hand at BASIC 1) Skip saving to tape. Hook the OUT on the cartridge to the IN on your computer's sound card and save as WAV files. It makes programming the Astrocade not only more reliable, but quicker as well. 2) You're still limited to 1.8K. Read the Peek N Poke manual and the newsletters for information on how to converve bytes. 3) Read the Bally ROM Subroutines to use Machine Language from the Bally ROM. It is how most games were able to be created in the first place. I'm curious to see what people come up with. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 15:57:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 23:57:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 47862 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 23:57:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 23:57:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 23:57:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.10.113] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 23:57:50 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:57:47 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: BASIC Program cartridges? How? Message-ID: <98969r+93il@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 983 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" Rob Mitchell sent me an ad for the Astrocade (circa late 1987/early 1988)that states that cartridges CAN be made from Bally BASIC programs. Here's what it says: " Attention! Attention!! A new service has begun! Any taped AB or BRB program that you would like to see in a cartridge can be done for only $9.95 a cartridge! This does not mean that the programs will be improved, it means that we've discovered a way to put BASIC into cartridges and make it run!! Note: Some programs that we don't already have in our possession may require a submitted tape to burn. If you wish for a program that you have written to be put in a cartridge, just send in a tape (with $9.95) and the tape will be returned with the cartridge. Also, tape any special title screen that you wish to appear (can be taped separately), otherwise you'll get a "handmade" title of the Arcadian or just a name." Anyone know anything about this? How would this have worked? Adam Trionfo From jwkrych@n... Thu Mar 08 17:56:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 01:56:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 57536 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 01:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 01:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 01:56:39 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.225] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A7FB34FE0274; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:55:07 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c0a83e$dbcda4e0$e14f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <98969r+93il@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] BASIC Program cartridges? How? Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:15:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0A814.F1D11E40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0A814.F1D11E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adam! I remember that guy-Mike White. He was in Ohio I think. I remember talking = to him quite a bit back then. Does Rob have the guy's address and such? If = I remember correctly, the BASIC took up 4K, and the remaining 4K(1.8 actual= ly) would hold the program. Must have been some kind of hook to it to load = the program(autorun) Regards, Jim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Adam Trionfo=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 6:57 PM Subject: [ballyalley] BASIC Program cartridges? How? Rob Mitchell sent me an ad for the Astrocade (circa late 1987/early=20 1988)that states that cartridges CAN be made from Bally BASIC=20 programs. Here's what it says: " Attention! Attention!! A new service has begun! Any taped AB or=20 BRB program that you would like to see in a cartridge can be done for=20 only $9.95 a cartridge! This does not mean that the programs will be=20 improved, it means that we've discovered a way to put BASIC into=20 cartridges and make it run!! Note: Some programs that we don't already have in our possession=20 may require a submitted tape to burn. If you wish for a program that=20 you have written to be put in a cartridge, just send in a tape (with=20 $9.95) and the tape will be returned with the cartridge. Also, tape=20 any special title screen that you wish to appear (can be taped=20 separately), otherwise you'll get a "handmade" title of the Arcadian=20 or just a name."=20 Anyone know anything about this? How would this have worked? Adam Trionfo Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click Here to Find Software Faster=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0A814.F1D11E40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Adam!
 
I remember that guy-Mike White. He was in Ohio I think.= I=20 remember talking to him quite a bit back then. Does Rob have the guy's addr= ess=20 and such? If I remember correctly, the BASIC took up 4K, and the remaining= =20 4K(1.8 actually) would hold the program. Must have been some kind of hook t= o it=20 to load the program(autorun)
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 = Adam=20 Trionfo
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 6:5= 7=20 PM
Subject: [ballyalley] BASIC Progra= m=20 cartridges? How?

Rob Mitchell sent me an ad for the Astrocade (circa la= te=20 1987/early
1988)that states that cartridges CAN be made from Bally BA= SIC=20
programs.  Here's what it says:

"    Atten= tion!=20 Attention!!  A new service has begun! Any taped AB or
BRB progra= m=20 that you would like to see in a cartridge can be done for
only $9.95 = a=20 cartridge!  This does not mean that the programs will be
improve= d, it=20 means that we've discovered a way to put BASIC into
cartridges and ma= ke it=20 run!!
     Note: Some programs that we don't alrea= dy=20 have in our possession
may require a submitted tape to burn. If you w= ish=20 for a program that
you have written to be put in a cartridge, just se= nd in=20 a tape (with
$9.95) and the tape will be returned with the=20 cartridge.  Also, tape
any special title screen that you wish to= =20 appear (can be taped
separately), otherwise you'll get a "handmade" t= itle=20 of the Arcadian
or just a name."

Anyone know anything about=20 this?  How would this have worked?

Adam Trionfo

<= BR>
Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0A814.F1D11E40-- From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 18:40:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 02:40:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 24758 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 02:40:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 02:40:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.121) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 03:42:02 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:40:57 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <98969r+93il@e...> <000801c0a83e$dbcda4e0$e14f1cd8@j...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] BASIC Program cartridges? How? Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:43:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0A7FF.B5F97EE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2001 02:40:57.0668 (UTC) FILETIME=[5EB63040:01C0A842] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0A7FF.B5F97EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I actually sent him a letter today. No idea if he will get the letter thou= gh... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: james w krych=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [ballyalley] BASIC Program cartridges? How? Hi Adam! =20=20=20 I remember that guy-Mike White. He was in Ohio I think. I remember talkin= g to him quite a bit back then. Does Rob have the guy's address and such? I= f I remember correctly, the BASIC took up 4K, and the remaining 4K(1.8 actu= ally) would hold the program. Must have been some kind of hook to it to loa= d the program(autorun) =20=20=20 Regards, =20=20=20 Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0A7FF.B5F97EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I actually sent him a letter today.  No idea if he= will=20 get the letter though...
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 james w kr= ych=20
To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 6:1= 5=20 PM
Subject: Re: [ballyalley] BASIC Pr= ogram=20 cartridges? How?

Hi Adam!
 
I remember that guy-Mike White. He was in Ohio I thin= k. I=20 remember talking to him quite a bit back then. Does Rob have the guy's ad= dress=20 and such? If I remember correctly, the BASIC took up 4K, and the remainin= g=20 4K(1.8 actually) would hold the program. Must have been some kind of hook= to=20 it to load the program(autorun)
 
Regards,
 
Jim
 
------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0A7FF.B5F97EE0-- From spudboy@o... Thu Mar 08 19:59:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: spudboy@o... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 03:59:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 38605 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 03:59:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 03:59:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta8) (167.206.5.23) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 03:59:05 -0000 Received: from angry (ool-18be618e.dyn.optonline.net [24.190.97.142]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0G9W00GC3WDJ1Y@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:58:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:48:41 -0500 Subject: Would it be possible to convert Robby Roto to astrocade To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <000101c0a84c$cf4d3ba0$8e61be18@a...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_xjZdBrLjYv9vlYwRaYJnew)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal From: spudboy --Boundary_(ID_xjZdBrLjYv9vlYwRaYJnew) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hey Everyone, I have been wondering for awhile now if the Robby Roto game could be converted to the astrocade. Being that the arcade hardware is very similar to the home system. Gorf would be another game that could possibly be converted. I am not a programmer although I am going to try my hand at writing some new basic games. Also I had a thought about possibly a hardware upgrade that would contain the same voice chip that the arcade games wizard or wor and gorf had. Then a new version of wizard of wor and gorf could be made and have the original speech. Also if this is possible new games could be made with voice. Is there any new info on the astrocade CD project? Later, Michael --Boundary_(ID_xjZdBrLjYv9vlYwRaYJnew) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hey Everyone,
I have been wondering for awhile now if the Robby Roto game could be converted to the astrocade.  Being that the arcade hardware is very similar to the home system.  Gorf would be another game that could possibly be converted.  I am not a programmer although I am going to try my hand at writing some new basic games.  Also I had a thought about possibly a hardware upgrade that would contain the same voice chip that the arcade games wizard or wor and gorf had.  Then a new version of wizard of wor and gorf could be made and have the original speech.  Also if this is possible new games could be made with voice.  Is there any new info on the astrocade CD project? 
 
Later,
Michael
--Boundary_(ID_xjZdBrLjYv9vlYwRaYJnew)-- From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 08 21:55:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 05:55:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 54547 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 05:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 05:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch.egroups.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 05:55:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.10.96] by ch.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2001 05:55:56 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 05:55:56 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Astrocade CD project update Message-ID: <989r9c+uls3@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2761 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.130.216.135 From: "Adam Trionfo" Michael asked about the progress of the Astrocade CD. The Astrocade CD is a goal of this discussion group, and of Bally Alley. It is not one that is going to be arriving any time soon. I am not even sure when to say this CD might be available, but certainly it will be here no sooner than one year, and not more than two years. Don't be shocked. There is a LOT of work to be done in the Astrocade scene before an attempt at this CD can even be considered. Here is what I WANT the CD to contain: 1) All documentation that I have been posting at ballyalley.com 2) All BASIC programs released on cassette 3) All cartridge ROM images 4) Interviews with Astrocade people 5) Hopefully by then someone will have written a nice game for the Astrocade and it can be included too. 6) Anything else that will fit Okay, realize that that is just a WISH list. I don't have the rights to do this yet (I don't even have ALL this stuff). Anyone that can help me track down the correct people to talk to so that this will happen will be invaluable. I DO have permission to have the Arcadian newsletter up on Bally Alley, but permission for the CD (as far as the newsletter is concerned) is not worked out yet. Robert Fabris has sad that I would NOT be able to include the programs. I hope that we can work this out in the times ahead. I also do not have the rights to the ROM images, though I THINK the Bally ROM is distributable. I need to track down people for interviews. I need to finish getting all the documentation I have online. Don't be discouraged by what is NOT done. Rather, look at what IS done. Look at ballyalley.com and see how much Astrocade information is now accessible. A year ago, almost NONE of this was available. As you can see, this project is just barely off the ground. Only the most basic steps have been taken. This is not for lack of effort. I spend most of my free time scanning, writing, typing and doing things that are Astrocade related. I enjoy it. Other people have been chipping in too. Once this ball starts rolling, it will gain momentum and really start moving. Remember, the Astrocade is NOT like the other classic consoles. Except for a very few sites and the Astrocade FAQ, this system has been neglected. In the meantime, the Atari, Colecovision, Vectrex and other classic consoles have had people paying attention to them. The Astrocade needs to be out in the light again for a while before people start to take notice of it. Given time, the Astrocade will attract a small following just as the other classic consoles have. In the meantime, I'm here to help push it along. Adam Trionfo If you want to help with the CD effort, or the web site, just raise your hand. From solder_guy@m... Fri Mar 09 05:37:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 13:37:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 67159 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 13:37:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 13:37:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail24.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.207) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 13:37:34 -0000 Received: œby mail24.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA07016; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:37:33 -0800 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:37:33 -0800 Message-Id: <200103091337.FAA07016@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.40.12] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Re: [ballyalley] BASIC Program cartridges? How? From: "solder_guy Last Name" No .. I do not have the address. That copy was sent to me from the auctioneer in Niagara Falls, ON after I won one of his Astrocade auctions ... Rob. ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From guygg@3... Sat Mar 10 02:05:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: guygg@3... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 10 Mar 2001 10:05:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 97590 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 10:05:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2001 10:05:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 10:05:54 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: guygg@3... Received: from [10.1.4.67] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2001 10:05:54 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:05:51 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hello Message-ID: <98cu9v+5736@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1242 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 199.174.172.187 From: "Guy Gordon" I was so happy and excited to stumble across this group. I've been a Bally Astrocade (or whatever mutation of the name you prefer) fan basically my entire life. I'm currently 25 and had a Bally to play with pretty much at preschool age (I was probably playing Checkmate before I figured out how to play kid games like hide & seek in real life). I still love this system to this day. I've got a ton of classic systems all the way up to the newest systems of today, and I still consider the Bally to be my favorite. There has always been a lack of information on this system on the web. I'm exstatic to find a group of people out there. I look forward to helping get this system the attention it needs in the classic gaming community. Question for anyone out there. It's great to have Astrocade support in the MESS multi-console emulator. At least that helps give the Astrocade some attention (and being able to get hold of a pretty fairly complete ROM collection is great). Is there any way (or plans) to be able to have the emulator app load in basic programs from wav files simulating a cassette load procedure? Happy to join in, and hope to help out with the group project(s) Thanx Guy G. Gordon guygg@3... From cybpunks@m... Sat Mar 10 10:47:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 10 Mar 2001 18:47:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 39066 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 18:46:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2001 18:46:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls02.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.15) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 18:46:59 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2AIkwU11800 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:46:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010310095128.03f50e28@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:49:06 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: speech chip In-Reply-To: <984129394.319.43608.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders At 09:16 AM 3/9/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Hey Everyone, >I have been wondering for awhile now if the Robby Roto game could be >converted to the astrocade. Being that the arcade hardware is very >similar to the home system. Gorf would be another game that could >possibly be converted. I am not a programmer although I am going to try >my hand at writing some new basic games. Also I had a thought about >possibly a hardware upgrade that would contain the same voice chip that >the arcade games wizard or wor and gorf had. Then a new version of wizard >of wor and gorf could be made and have the original speech. Also if this >is possible new games could be made with voice. Is there any new info on >the astrocade CD project? I think if the upgrade basically turned the Bally into the true hardware equivalent of a Gorf or WoW arcade machine, including the speech chip, that would be a great piece of hardware. If that were done, then these games could be re-ported and be totally indistinguishable from the real thing. As for the CD, Adam has the right attitude. It's not something that should be rushed out the door. I still feel bad that the PAL versions of Survival Island and Sword of Saros didn't make it onto the first edition of the Starpath CD... But on the other hand, remember that the CD isn't just Adam going around like a madman doing everything. If he tries to do it that way, he'll fail. And I do suggest that he be careful about how he gathers up volunteers. Non-profit or next-to-non-profit projects can be fun, but too often lie unfinished due to false commitments from volunteers who either never had the time for it to begin with, or just lost interest and couldn't admit it. We all have hobbies, but too often they get silently sacrificed for work and family. Not that hobbies should be above both, but... I have always treated my hobbies as a litmus test for my ability to follow through on my personal goals despite competing commitments. I mean, unless you are really lucky, what you get paid to do at work probably isn't what you are really passionate about. And it's certainly a LOT more challenging spending late nights and weekends devoted to a hobby than it is putting in 8 hours each day on a project for your dayjob. How many of you out there are so happy with your careers that you look back and feel totally fulfilled purely with what you've accomplished at your dayjob? Completing a hobby project like this, regardless of how long it takes, is a real accomplishment. It took me 3 years to finish both Stella at 20 videotapes--start to finish. Volume 2 was edited when my daughter was less than 2 months old. Talk about challenges! Nevertheless, Adam's role as the main producer is a hard one. Motivating volunteers is one of the hardest things in the world to do, even more so when it's all through impersonal Email. Cracking the whip on them can have the opposite effect, just making them lose interest. A manager for a non-profit project has next to no leverage to demand results. But when 6+ months go by and nothing's getting done, you have to scramble to find someone who has more initiative. With the CD, I had to drop the initial guy who had expressed interest in doing the graphic art in favor of Dan Skelton for that reason. Positive reinforcement is really your only ally. The original Starpath CD was written up in Wired magazine and an obscure mag called Replication News. The reissue has been written up a few times. The video is going to be covered in a future issue of Newtekniques. Good work like this DOES get recognized because, like I said, very few people have the initiative or the commitment to turn "wouldn't it be nice if" into a real physical product. For another example, I had been waiting for a ramcart for the Vectrex for as long as I've been reading rec.games.vectrex. Maybe 5, 6 years. Finally someone came out of the blue with a finished board ready to sell. No hot air, he just put it together on his own and sprung it on us. But a LOT of other guys who were qualified to do it had been talking about doing it for years. They just never got off their rear end to do it. Or take Chad and the Intellicharger. Blue Sky Rangers screwed up with the Magus 2 debaucle, and those guys should know better given that they are more of a formal company than Chad. Then Chad comes around and puts that together in short order. Then you've got one-off things like Bankzilla that were never translated into products we could use. Then Chad comes up with the SuperDuperCharger which will be the only way to play rare games like Save Mary on the real hardware (assuming this thing ever gets produced). So I really hope that this group is a call to arms to the people out there capable of making the memory board and contributing to the CD to step up to the challenge, and that it doesn't become a host to a lot of discussion that leads to no action--or action only on Adam's part... Glenn Saunders - Producer - Cyberpunks Entertainment Personal homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/1698 Cyberpunks Entertainment: http://cyberpunks.uni.cc From ward.shrake@w... Sun Mar 11 01:46:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 11 Mar 2001 09:46:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 20307 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 09:46:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2001 09:46:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ci.egroups.com) (10.1.2.81) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 09:46:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.103] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2001 09:46:21 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:46:20 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Recent Astrocade ROM archiving efforts Message-ID: <98fhhc+dvcg@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1789 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.39.60 From: "Ward Shrake" Adam and I (Ward) were at the SC3 video game collectors meeting at Robert Worne's house, earlier today. Adam brought all of his carts, and I brought a freshly soldered-up cart reading adapter that I made over the last few days. (Literally just an adapter; it plugs into my EPROM burner as if it was a Bally-standard 2364 -- yes, 2364 -- chip.) Good news... I'm still processing stuff, but six new carts have now been dumped, that did not exist as ROM dumps before this. The cart titles are... Pirate's Chase Sea Devil Ms. Candyman Treasure Cove Coloring Book ICBM Attack In addition to the ones above, Adam also brought what looked like possible early development carts with him. To be thorough, I just dumped every cart he brought. (Hence my need to process all of this.) But so far, it looks like he had two new revisions of Muncher, and one copy of Incredible Wizard that has some differences in the code. (Judging by quick CRC checks and glancing through the code manually.) In any case, lots got done today. Hooray, hooray! Bad news... These are going to end up being slow in showing up publicly. But they have been rescued from potential bit rot, and that's something. (The Treasure Cove was dead on arrival... I got it working, then dumped it.) Sort-of-good news... I'm now out of Bally carts to dump, locally. If other experienced cart dumpers want to borrow my already-made adapter, I'll consider putting it into the snail mail on a loan, to get more things dumped? Only real catch is a technical one... it is NOT a standalone reader. It is only an adapter for use with a reliable EPROM reader / burner. (I love my C64's Promenade, but whatever works, works.) But it does work, as today's two-dozen plus cart dumps has proved. Any takers? Ward Shrake From solder_guy@m... Sun Mar 11 04:38:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 11 Mar 2001 12:38:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 34570 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 12:38:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Mar 2001 12:38:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail5.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.36) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 12:38:43 -0000 Received: œby mail5.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA03273; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 04:38:43 -0800 Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 04:38:43 -0800 Message-Id: <200103111238.EAA03273@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [38.203.176.66] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Recent Astrocade ROM archiving efforts From: "solder_guy Last Name" Hi Ward and Adam: Thanks for your efforts to dump the ROMs. When ICBM Attack is finally made into a modern cart, we need to figure out how to make a controller for it. Is it digital or analog? Aside: Charles Taylor just posted a message on RGVC that the Bally Shrine is back up and running. I'm gonna send him a message about Ballyalley and this egroup so he can get involved. http://echem.clemson.edu/~charlet/bshrine/ Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From solder_guy@m... Sun Mar 11 06:54:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 11 Mar 2001 14:54:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 81673 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 14:54:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2001 14:54:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 14:54:47 -0000 Received: œby mail2.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA17572; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 06:54:46 -0800 Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 06:54:46 -0800 Message-Id: <200103111454.GAA17572@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [38.203.176.66] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Hello From: "solder_guy Last Name" >>I look forward to helping get this system the attention it needs in the classic gaming community.<< Welcome Guy! Great! Right now we are in an "archiving mode" :: collecting copying scanning dumping ROMs. Any Rare carts that you have could be dumped. And any programs on cassette could be duplicated to WAV files. >>Is there any way (or plans) to be able to have the emulator app load in basic programs from wav files simulating a cassette load procedure?<< I donno ... Frank Palozzolo wrote the Astrocade driver for MESS .. and that alone is a major accomplishment. But any WAV files you have (from audio cassette) would be appreciated towards putting together a CD for others to enjoy. Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From rcolbert1@h... Sun Mar 11 09:02:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 11 Mar 2001 17:02:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 37861 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 17:02:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2001 17:02:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 17:02:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: rcolbert1@h... Received: from [10.1.2.91] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2001 17:02:42 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:02:37 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hello Message-ID: <98gb3d+f41k@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 766 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.4.252.209 From: rcolbert1@h... Hi, I've been recruited by Adam Trionfo to help reverse-engineer the tape format of the Astrocade. I successfully did so with the Supercharger for the Atari 2600, which led to a surge in new program development for that system (see http://members.home.com/rcolbert1). I hope to do the same for the Astrocade. Unfortunately I don't have an Astrocade, but I have been looking around for one (hint hint). In the mean time, I'm going to see what I can do without one. The first step will be to see if I can write a program to digitally remaster existing tapes. I'll keep you posted. As I informed Adam, I recently had a son, and between him and his sister I don't have a ton of free time right now, but I'll do my best! Bob From slapdash@e... Sun Mar 11 10:32:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 11 Mar 2001 18:32:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 8517 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 18:32:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2001 18:32:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 19:33:41 -0000 Received: from [207.229.149.70] (207-229-149-70.d.enteract.com [207.229.149.70]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28530 for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:32:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from slapdash@e...) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <98gb3d+f41k@e...> References: <98gb3d+f41k@e...> Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:29:27 -0600 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Hello Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr At 5:02 PM +0000 3/11/01, rcolbert1@h... wrote: >I've been recruited by Adam Trionfo to help reverse-engineer the >tape format of the Astrocade. Hey! Glad to see you're gonna try to help! >The first step will be to see if I can write a program to digitally >remaster existing tapes. BLLY2WAV :-) >I recently had a son, and between him and his sister I don't have a ton >of free time right now, but I'll do my best! Pht, I don't have ANY kids, but ask how many tapes I've sampled for the cause... Don't burn yourself out! You'll make guys like me look bad. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From guygg@3... Sun Mar 11 16:34:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: guygg@3... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 00:33:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 11240 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 00:33:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 00:33:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO maynard.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.243) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 01:35:00 -0000 Received: from guy (user-33qtbdp.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.173.185]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA24058 for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:33:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001001c0aa8e$c0c04d40$0100a8c0@3...> To: References: <200103111454.GAA17572@m...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Hello Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:52:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 From: "Guy G. Gordon" >Welcome Guy! > >Great! Right now we are in an "archiving mode" :: collecting copying scanning >dumping ROMs. Any Rare carts that you have could be dumped. And any >programs on cassette could be duplicated to WAV files. I've got (I think) the entire run of the Arcadian newsletter up to '84 under Robert Fabris' publishing. I know I've got a fair number of programs on cassette somewhere (I've been looking, and hopefully will find them soon). I don't think I have anything on cartridge that's not already dumped (But I'll double check that). I will keep looking for the audio cassettes, and will gladly dump anything I can find to WAV. >I donno ... Frank Palozzolo wrote the Astrocade driver for MESS .. and that >alone is a major accomplishment. But any WAV files you have (from audio >cassette) would be appreciated towards putting together a CD for others to enjoy. Having stuff on a CD to dump through the Basic cartridge would certainly be cool (at least it'd have track stops). Being able to use it on the emulator would be total gravy... Guy From ballyalley@h... Sun Mar 11 17:17:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 01:17:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 71162 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 01:17:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 01:17:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 01:17:02 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:14:06 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <200103111454.GAA17572@m...> <001001c0aa8e$c0c04d40$0100a8c0@3...> Subject: What newsletters and cassettes are needed Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:17:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0AA4F.16C01800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2001 01:14:06.0530 (UTC) FILETIME=[BBDEE220:01C0AA91] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0AA4F.16C01800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable March 11, 2001 Guy, I think I have all the issues of the Arcadian now (78-86). I am still in t= he process of scanning and uploading them to Bally Blley (this takes time). I am still looking for the rest of the issues of The BASIC Express (all the= issues I have are already on Bally Alley). Pages 52 and 53 of Cursor are = not readable-- so I am looking for those.=20 Any other newsletters (i.e. Astrobugs) anyone might have would be good to h= ave up on Bally Alley. It will be a little while before we get to the cassettes, but it can't hurt= making a list of who has what (though, even that might be too preliminary)= . If you think you have the time to help in other ways, contact me via email = mail and I can think of some WONDERFUL things for you to do. Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0AA4F.16C01800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
March 11, 2001
 
Guy,
 
I think I have all the issues of the Arcadian now=20 (78-86).  I am still in the process of scanning and uploading the= m to=20 Bally Blley (this takes time).
 
I am still looking for the rest of the issues of The BA= SIC=20 Express (all the issues I have are already on Bally Alley).  Pages 52 = and=20 53 of Cursor are not readable-- so I am looking for those.
 
Any other newsletters (i.e. Astrobugs) anyone might hav= e would=20 be good to have up on Bally Alley.
 
It will be a little while before we get to the cassette= s, but=20 it can't hurt making a list of who has what (though, even that might be too= =20 preliminary).
 
If you think you have the time to help in other ways, c= ontact=20 me via email mail and I can think of some WONDERFUL things for you to=20 do.
 
Adam Trionfo
------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0AA4F.16C01800-- From guygg@3... Sun Mar 11 19:59:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: guygg@3... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 03:59:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 80733 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 03:59:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 03:59:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blount.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.226) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 03:59:33 -0000 Received: from guy (user-33qtdq8.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.183.72]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA20468 for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 22:59:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002301c0aaab$7a78f1d0$0100a8c0@3...> To: References: <200103111454.GAA17572@m...> <001001c0aa8e$c0c04d40$0100a8c0@3...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] What newsletters and cassettes are needed Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 22:18:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0AA79.2EFF6C70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 From: "Guy G. Gordon" ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0AA79.2EFF6C70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >March 11, 2001 >=20 >Guy, >=20 >I think I have all the issues of the Arcadian now (78-86). I am still in = the process of scanning and uploading them to Bally Blley (this takes time)= . Yeah, I run a few sites of my own with lots of scanned materials, and I kno= w how LONG it takes. Knowing how messy many of the issues of Acradian are,= I can only imagine what pushing them through OCR software would be like... (& hey, seeing as it has only a slight involvement this arena, any Tron mov= ie fans out there? - it was computer related in the Bally era after all - I= run a site and e-mail list about the movie at www.tron-movie.com) OK, sha= meless plug over ;-) >I am still looking for the rest of the issues of The BASIC Express (all th= e issues I have are already on Bally Alley). Pages 52 and 53 of Cursor are= not readable-- so I am looking for those.=20 I don't think I have any issues of The BASIC Express (though I do remember = it). I know I don't have any material from Cursor, as I don't think I ever= even saw that. >Any other newsletters (i.e. Astrobugs) anyone might have would be good to = have up on Bally Alley. Prompted by this, I started digging through old boxes of magazines (Primari= ly TRS-80 magazines and Microcomputing issues from 79-84 or so). I did fin= d one magazine entitled "Mechanix Illustrated - Personal Computers" from 19= 79 that has a writeup on most systems of the time, including the Bally. Th= e Bally write-up is good (entertaining anyway). I need to scan it in, but = my scanner won't work (got knocked around during construction and painting = over the last month - think I killed it). I'll get it (or another one) goi= ng soon. I spent too much time rummaging through these old magazines. Onc= e I started reading, I couldn't stop. There are some great nostalgic laugh= s in them - such as HOLY COW, I CAN'T BELIEVE SUCH-AND-SUCH COST THAT MUCH = THEN!. This one specific issue I mentioned above has a HILARIOUS article t= itled "In The Future" and starts with the words "By the year 2000" (I can't= even type that without thinking of Conan O'Brien). Needless to say, it's = WAY off base on most things. Funny how magical the years 2000 and 2001 see= med only some 20 years or so ago. When I get the scanner going, I'll have = to scan that article in simply for others' amusement. >It will be a little while before we get to the cassettes, but it can't hur= t making a list of who has what (though, even that might be too preliminary= ). > >If you think you have the time to help in other ways, contact me via email= mail and I can think of some WONDERFUL things for you to do. Will do. Hopefully I can find some more stuff... Guy ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0AA79.2EFF6C70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>March 11, 2001
> 
>Guy,
> 
>I think I have all the issues of the Arcadian now=20 (78-86).  I am still in the process of scanning and uploading the= m to=20 Bally Blley (this takes time).
 
Yeah, I run a few sites of my own with lots of scanned materials, and = I=20 know how LONG it takes.  Knowing how messy many of the issues of Acrad= ian=20 are, I can only imagine what pushing them through OCR software would be=20 like...
 
(& hey, seeing as it has only a slight involvement this arena, any= Tron=20 movie fans out there? - it was computer related in the Bally era after all = - I=20 run a site and e-mail list about the movie at www.tron-movie.com)  OK, shamel= ess=20 plug over ;-)
 
>I am still looking for the rest of the issues of Th= e BASIC=20 Express (all the issues I have are already on Bally Alley).  Pages 52 = and=20 53 of Cursor are not readable-- so I am looking for those.
 
I don't think I have any issues of The BASIC Express (though I do reme= mber=20 it).  I know I don't have any material from Cursor, as I don't think I= ever=20 even saw that.
 
>Any other newsletters (i.e. Astrobugs) anyone might= have=20 would be good to have up on Bally Alley.
 
Prompted by this, I started digging through old boxes of magazines=20 (Primarily TRS-80 magazines and Microcomputing issues from 79-84 or so).&nb= sp; I=20 did find one magazine entitled "Mechanix Illustrated - Personal Computers" = from=20 1979 that has a writeup on most systems of the time, including the Bally.&n= bsp;=20 The Bally write-up is good (entertaining anyway).  I need to scan it i= n,=20 but my scanner won't work (got knocked around during construction and paint= ing=20 over the last month - think I killed it).  I'll get it (or another one= )=20 going soon.  I spent too much time rummaging through these old=20 magazines.  Once I started reading, I couldn't stop.  There are s= ome=20 great nostalgic laughs in them - such as HOLY COW, I CAN'T BELIEVE SUCH-AND= -SUCH=20 COST THAT MUCH THEN!.  This one specific issue I mentioned above has a= =20 HILARIOUS article titled "In The Future" and starts with the words "By the = year=20 2000" (I can't even type that without thinking of Conan O'Brien).  Nee= dless=20 to say, it's WAY off base on most things.  Funny how magical the years= 2000=20 and 2001 seemed only some 20 years or so ago.  When I get the scanner= =20 going, I'll have to scan that article in simply for others' amusement.
 
>It will be a little while before we get to the cass= ettes,=20 but it can't hurt making a list of who has what (though, even that might be= too=20 preliminary).
>
>If you think you have the time to help in other way= s,=20 contact me via email mail and I can think of some WONDERFUL things for you = to=20 do.
 
Will do.  Hopefully I can find some more stuff...
 
Guy
 
 ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0AA79.2EFF6C70-- From spudboy@o... Sun Mar 11 22:52:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: spudboy@o... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 06:52:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 78089 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 06:52:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 06:52:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta8) (167.206.5.23) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 07:53:56 -0000 Received: from angry (ool-18be618e.dyn.optonline.net [24.190.97.142]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0GA200A7OOF4OE@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 01:52:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 01:49:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Hello To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <002c01c0aac0$94c42860$8e61be18@a...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_uCxR2Q0MuYBA9VAqouqxUA)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal From: spudboy --Boundary_(ID_uCxR2Q0MuYBA9VAqouqxUA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT What carts have been dumped already? I also have the entire seven volume run of the arcadian newsletter. If any issue is needed I can try to scan them in. Later, Michael --Boundary_(ID_uCxR2Q0MuYBA9VAqouqxUA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
What carts have been dumped already?  I also have the entire seven volume run of the arcadian newsletter.  If any issue is needed I can try to scan them in. 
 
Later,
Michael
--Boundary_(ID_uCxR2Q0MuYBA9VAqouqxUA)-- From rcolbert1@h... Mon Mar 12 10:16:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 18:16:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 10753 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 18:16:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 18:16:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ci.egroups.com) (10.1.2.81) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 18:16:13 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: rcolbert1@h... Received: from [10.1.10.126] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2001 18:16:12 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:16:08 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Ballywav progress update Message-ID: <98j3p8+ln50@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2321 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.22.180.194 From: rcolbert1@h... Hi, I just thought that I would post an update on my progress in writing the ballywav/blly2wav/astrowav (any preference on the name) program. Actually, my first step is going the opposite direction, that is from a .wav file to a .bin file (blly2bin). Anyway, I was able to modify my makebin program to read the byte codes from a .wav file of a Bally cassette. As has been suggested, the tape format uses Frequency Modulation to store the 0 and 1 bits. Things are a bit different on the Bally than they are on the Supercharger for the Atari 2600 though. First, on the Supercharger, the two frequencies are not directly related to eachother other than the fact that the "0" is shorter than the "1" frequency. On the Bally, the "0" frequency is almost precicely 1/2 that of the "1" frequency. It also seems that the two formats use different phases: The supercharger detects a new frequency as the waveform passes 0 from the bottom up while the Bally uses the opposite. The header tone on the Bally is a series of "1" wavforms, the end of which is signaled when the byte 0xA5 is encountered. The header tone on the Supercharger is an alternating series of "0"'s and "1"'s, the end of which is signaled when the byte 0x54 is encountered. The Bally also places two bits between each byte, a "1" and then a "0". Now for the mystery. I haven't had but a few minutes to look at the results, but it seems that each byte is represented by two bytes on the tape. I haven't found the correlation between the values yet, but that is my next goal. This is different from the two bytes that make up a word value that is POKE'ed into the system in BASIC. At any rate, with the knowledge I have now I should be able to remaster a tape, possibly even repair one that no longer loads. I still need to write the code to do so, but it is trivial. In fact, I don't even think I need to go to that measure, because I think I put a flag into my makewave utility to allow me to convert a raw binary file to .wav. I'll continue to keep everyone posted on my progress. I could use volunteers with high-speed connections and an Astrocade who would be willing to test .wav files I create. As I stated before, I don't have a Bally, so I can't actually try loading anything. Bob From palazzol@h... Mon Mar 12 11:29:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 19:29:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 44570 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 19:29:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 19:29:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 19:29:50 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: palazzol@h... Received: from [10.1.10.120] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2001 19:29:50 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 19:29:50 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Ballywav progress update Message-ID: <98j83e+fqet@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 650 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 198.102.112.200 From: palazzol@h... Bob, I wrote some code a while ago to decode some wavefile data into BASIC for the Astrocade. I will dig it up and send it off to you. As I recall, there are 2 types of tape interfaces which can be used. The slower rate one was 1200 & 2400 Hz FM modulated. (Can't remembr the data rate offhand.) When I decoded the data it was simple 8-bit ASCII for the BASIC programs. I never checked out the high-speed interface. There is also an assembly program which can be typed into an astrocade to read and convert low to high speed tapes, using the high speed interface. I'll go offline with you later on and send you what I have. -Frank From ballyalley@h... Mon Mar 12 11:51:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 19:51:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 25109 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 19:51:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 19:51:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.203) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 19:51:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:51:29 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <98j83e+fqet@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Ballywav progress update Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:54:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01C0AAEB.3099DBC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2001 19:51:29.0608 (UTC) FILETIME=[D4A8BC80:01C0AB2D] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C0AAEB.3099DBC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The assembly program that converts from 300 baud cassettes to 2000 baud is = on page 104-106 of the Bally BASIC Manual. The BASIC manual can be downloa= ded from this page: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/misc_docs/misc_= docs.html Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C0AAEB.3099DBC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The assembly program that converts from 300 baud=20 cassettes to 2000 baud is on page 104-106 of the Bally BASIC Manual.&n= bsp;=20 The BASIC manual can be downloaded from this page: h= ttp://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/misc_docs/misc_docs.html<= /DIV>
 
Adam Trionfo

 
------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C0AAEB.3099DBC0-- From ward.shrake@w... Mon Mar 12 12:48:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 20:48:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 40908 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 20:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 20:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mk.egroups.com) (10.1.1.30) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 20:48:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.105] by mk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2001 20:48:50 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:48:47 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Database of Bally software Message-ID: <98jcnf+729e@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 334 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.34.167 From: "Ward Shrake" An eGroups database exists, showing which carts and tapes have already been archived, for this system. The catch is, it is not linked to this particular group, but to the "Video Game Archival Movement" which predates this "BallyAlley" eGroup. The database can be found as part of: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vgam Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Mon Mar 12 13:08:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 21:08:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 23581 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 21:08:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 21:08:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cj.egroups.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 21:08:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.93] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2001 21:08:28 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:08:23 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Database of Bally software Message-ID: <98jds7+nufq@e...> In-Reply-To: <98jcnf+729e@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 322 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.34.167 From: "Ward Shrake" (Following up my own post) Never mind! I expected it to be a pain to move over, but the database came quietly when asked. It is now part of this newsgroup. I set the options so that any group subscriber could add, edit or delete any of the records. Should go quite a ways towards helping organize things? Ward Shrake From guygg@3... Mon Mar 12 13:25:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: guygg@3... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 21:25:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 32678 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 21:25:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 21:25:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tuvok.internetsite.com) (198.92.208.74) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 21:25:48 -0000 Received: from ([198.92.208.75]) by tuvok.internetsite.com (MERAK 3.00.130) with ESMTP id 048E177C for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:25:13 -0600 Message-ID: <008e01c0ab3a$b0ff7b40$aa01a8c0@e...> To: References: <98jds7+nufq@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Database of Bally software Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:23:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01C0AB08.645DA280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2428.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2428.0000 From: "Guy G. Gordon" ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C0AB08.645DA280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very, very useful. After such a lack of info and resources on the web for = the Bally, It's so cool to just see this kind of info. I have to say that = reading down the list of these, I've never heard of a lot of them (Primaril= y the tapes, of course). Since the roms and such are so tiny, the Yahoo Gr= oups area for file storage could become useful as well. It allows up to 20= MB of storage. Guy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ward Shrake=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 3:08 PM Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Database of Bally software (Following up my own post) Never mind! I expected it to be a pain to move over, but the database=20 came quietly when asked. It is now part of this newsgroup. I set the=20 options so that any group subscriber could add, edit or delete any of=20 the records. Should go quite a ways towards helping organize things? Ward Shrake Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click Here to Find Software Faster=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C0AB08.645DA280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Very, very useful.  After such a lack= of info=20 and resources on the web for the Bally, It's so cool to just see this kind = of=20 info.  I have to say that reading down the list of these, I've never h= eard=20 of a lot of them (Primarily the tapes, of course).  Since th= e=20 roms and such are so tiny, the Yahoo Groups area for file storage could bec= ome=20 useful as well.  It allows up to 20 MB of storage.
 
Guy
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 Ward Shrake
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 3:08= =20 PM
Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Database= of=20 Bally software

(Following up my own post)

Never mind! I expect= ed it=20 to be a pain to move over, but the database
came quietly when asked. = It is=20 now part of this newsgroup. I set the
options so that any group subsc= riber=20 could add, edit or delete any of
the records. Should go quite a ways= =20 towards helping organize things?

Ward Shrake



<= TT>Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C0AB08.645DA280-- From ward.shrake@w... Mon Mar 12 13:36:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 21:36:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 72638 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 21:36:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 21:36:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 21:36:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.27] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2001 21:36:57 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:36:53 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Recent Astrocade ROM archiving efforts Message-ID: <98jfhl+ka3d@e...> In-Reply-To: <200103111238.EAA03273@m...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1276 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.34.167 From: "Ward Shrake" A quick update... I found a "taker" on my offer to borrow my cart reading device. It will soon be in the mails, heading towards someone in New Jersey willing to make sure that more of these rare Bally carts get archived. As usual, no promises on "when," but things seem to be moving right along in the cartridge ROM archiving department. I told this person to pass the adapter around, when he's done with it. I am pretty sure the list of unarchived carts will shrink quite a bit. In related news, I did manage to get through the processing chores, on those carts I dumped this weekend. (Thanks again to Adam Trionfo and Rob Mitchell, for their cart loans!) It will still be awhile before they show up publicly -- because I've asked someone to check out and approve what I did, as many existing carts changed in size, one's filename changed, and so on -- but things are getting done. I couldn't resist checking the new cart images in MESS... all the new ones seem to work fine. Only that strange version of Incredible Wizard gave me any big troubles, but I expected it to, from looking at the code inside it. Even the fancy color-cycling effects on games like "Treasure Cove's" title screen, worked well on the emulator. More news as it happens. Ward Shrake From ballyalley@h... Mon Mar 12 14:22:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 22:22:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 1131 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 22:20:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 22:20:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.108) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 22:20:42 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:20:41 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <98jds7+nufq@e...> <008e01c0ab3a$b0ff7b40$aa01a8c0@e...> Subject: Comments on the database of Bally software Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:23:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01C0AB00.085DF960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2001 22:20:41.0624 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC79F980:01C0AB42] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C0AB00.085DF960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have seen this list over at VGAM and I am impressed by it: it is well put= together. Is there an easy way to make a printout of this list (besides j= ust Print Screen)? I am creating the Astrocade software FAQ, and this will= be quite helpful. I have many of the cassettes listed (plus others that aren't on this list).= Once archiving on the casettes begins, I will be in a better position to = say what I do and do not have. Until then, I say we just concentrate our e= ffort on the cartridges (as Ward seems to imply). We all have to remember: one step at a time. Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C0AB00.085DF960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have seen this list over at VGAM and I am impres= sed by=20 it: it is well put together.  Is there an easy way to make a printout = of=20 this list (besides just Print Screen)?  I am creating the Astrocade=20 software FAQ, and this will be quite helpful.
 
I have many of the cassettes listed (plus others t= hat=20 aren't on this list).  Once archiving on the casettes begins, I will b= e in=20 a better position to say what I do and do not have.  Until then, I say= we=20 just concentrate our effort on the cartridges (as Ward seems to=20 imply).
 
We all have to remember: one step at a time.
 
Adam Trionfo
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C0AB00.085DF960-- From guygg@3... Mon Mar 12 14:35:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: guygg@3... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 22:35:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 27573 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 22:35:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 22:35:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tuvok.internetsite.com) (198.92.208.74) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 22:35:34 -0000 Received: from ([198.92.208.75]) by tuvok.internetsite.com (MERAK 3.00.130) with ESMTP id 048E177C for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:34:58 -0600 Message-ID: <001301c0ab44$6d7fc5f0$aa01a8c0@e...> To: References: <98jds7+nufq@e...> <008e01c0ab3a$b0ff7b40$aa01a8c0@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Comments on the database of Bally software Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:33:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0AB12.20D93240" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2428.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2428.0000 From: "Guy G. Gordon" ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0AB12.20D93240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you have the database open on screen, there is a link on the top of it f= or opening it in a printable form. I did that already to check against wha= t I've got... Guy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bally Alley=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 4:23 PM Subject: [ballyalley] Comments on the database of Bally software I have seen this list over at VGAM and I am impressed by it: it is well p= ut together. Is there an easy way to make a printout of this list (besides= just Print Screen)? I am creating the Astrocade software FAQ, and this wi= ll be quite helpful. I have many of the cassettes listed (plus others that aren't on this list= ). Once archiving on the casettes begins, I will be in a better position t= o say what I do and do not have. Until then, I say we just concentrate our= effort on the cartridges (as Ward seems to imply). We all have to remember: one step at a time. Adam Trionfo Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click Here to Find Software Faster=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0AB12.20D93240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you have the database open on screen, t= here is a=20 link on the top of it for opening it in a printable form.  I did that= =20 already to check against what I've got...
 
Guy
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 = Bally=20 Alley
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 4:23= =20 PM
Subject: [ballyalley] Comments on = the=20 database of Bally software

I have seen this list over at VGAM and I am impr= essed=20 by it: it is well put together.  Is there an easy way to make a prin= tout=20 of this list (besides just Print Screen)?  I am creating the Astroca= de=20 software FAQ, and this will be quite helpful.
 
I have many of the cassettes listed (plus others= that=20 aren't on this list).  Once archiving on the casettes begins, I will= be=20 in a better position to say what I do and do not have.  Until then, = I say=20 we just concentrate our effort on the cartridges (as Ward seems to=20 imply).
 
We all have to remember: one step at a time.
 
Adam Trionfo


Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0AB12.20D93240-- From tfrevor@y... Mon Mar 12 20:26:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: tfrevor@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 04:26:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 99628 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 04:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 04:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO b05.egroups.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 04:26:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: tfrevor@y... Received: from [10.1.10.114] by b05.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2001 04:18:28 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 04:18:23 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Astrocade manual help Message-ID: <98k72f+o8ro@e...> In-Reply-To: <98950v+4u3a@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 238 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.7.24.125 From: tfrevor@y... First off, thank you! After 20 years of waiting to see anyone else that actually owned the Bally, this is place is a dream come true. I'm not an assembly programmer, but any assistance you need in retyping I'm more than glad to give. From palazzol@h... Mon Mar 12 21:13:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 05:13:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 88719 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 05:13:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 05:13:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.145) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 05:13:35 -0000 Received: from pagels ([24.2.73.141]) by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010313051335.VNXY811.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@p...> for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:13:35 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:12:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: MESS bug fixes Reply-to: palazzol@h... Message-ID: <3AAD65F7.18305.AFF89D8@l...> Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) From: "Frank Palazzolo" Just a FYI, I fixed the aspect ratio problem for windowed modes, and modified the keypad mapping so that there are no conflicts. These are checked into the source code base so they will magically show up in MESS0.37b13, whenever that gets built. (Hopefully soon) -Frank From ballyalley@h... Tue Mar 13 22:35:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 06:35:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 62996 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 06:35:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 06:35:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.16) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 06:35:58 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:35:57 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010215091649.03093de8@p...> Subject: Astrocade BASIC and you? Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:38:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0AC0E.62BC4880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2001 06:35:57.0986 (UTC) FILETIME=[0738B820:01C0AC51] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0AC0E.62BC4880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable March 13, 2001 Glenn, I have been going through material that I wrote on my Atari 8-bit in the ea= rly nineties. I came across two letters that I wrote to a Glenn Saunders th= at lived in Massachusetts (in 1994). I'm guessing this "Glenn" is you? Did = you receive the Astrocade BASIC cartridge that I sent to you back then? Was= this you? I could send you the poorly written letters to jog your memory.= =20 I'm just curious, that's all. Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0AC0E.62BC4880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

March 13, 2001

Glenn,

I have been going through material that I wrote on my Atari 8-bit in the= =20 early nineties. I came across two letters that I wrote to a Glenn Saunders = that=20 lived in Massachusetts (in 1994). I'm guessing this "Glenn" is you? Did you= =20 receive the Astrocade BASIC cartridge that I sent to you back then? Was thi= s=20 you? I could send you the poorly written letters to jog your memory.

I'm just curious, that's all.

Adam Trionfo

 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0AC0E.62BC4880-- From ballyalley@h... Tue Mar 13 23:59:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 07:59:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 27267 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 07:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 07:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.19) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 07:59:25 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:59:24 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010215091649.03093de8@p...> Subject: Oops, I didn't mean to post to EVERYONE Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:02:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0AC1A.0DB3FAC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2001 07:59:24.0972 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF9E26C0:01C0AC5C] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0AC1A.0DB3FAC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Um, I didn't mean to post that email to Glenn to the WHOLE group. Oops, so= rry. Duh. Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0AC1A.0DB3FAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Um, I didn't mean to post that email to Glenn to the WH= OLE=20 group.  Oops, sorry.
 
Duh.
 
Adam Trionfo
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0AC1A.0DB3FAC0-- From rcolbert1@h... Thu Mar 15 21:08:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 05:08:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 98180 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 05:08:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 05:08:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.87) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 06:09:28 -0000 Received: from cx727596b ([24.183.207.151]) by femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010316050823.BTRW4228.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:08:23 -0800 To: Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Re: Ballywav progress update Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:23:57 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0ADA7.01F43860" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal From: "Bob Colbert" ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0ADA7.01F43860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I've been able to decode the tape format. Here is what I've found: The tape format contains 3730 bytes of information. The data is stored in words (1 word = 2 bytes) that have the bits in the following positions: On Tape In RAM L2 L8 H2 H8 L1 L4 H1 H4 H8 H4 H2 H1 L8 L4 L2 L1 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 -> 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 1 Every even byte (starting at 0) is used to store BASIC commands, every odd byte stores something else??? (actually, I'm not certain of the order) It's also possible that the odd bytes aren't even used. Any insight would be helpful. At byte 3616 there seems to be some footer information about the file, but I can't quite make out what it is. I'd be happy to make the decoded files available to anyone interested to look at in a hex editor. At any rate, I can successfully decode these files without error, and should be able to create new .wav files that are digitally perfect and will load on an Astrocade. I'd like to get my hands on a .wav file of an actual game and decode it. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0ADA7.01F43860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, I've been able to decode the tape format= . =20 Here is what I've found:
 
The tape format contains 3730 bytes of=20 information.  The data is stored in words (1 word =3D 2 bytes) = that=20 have the bits in the following positions:
 
       &nbs= p;     =20 On=20 Tape           &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =     =20 In RAM
 
L2=20 L8 H2 H8 L1 L4 H1=20 H4            H8 H= 4 H2=20 H1 L8 L4 L2 L1
 0  1  1  0  1  = 0 =20 1  0    ->       0&n= bsp;=20 0  1  1  1  0  0 =20 1
 
Every even byte (starting at 0) is used t= o store=20 BASIC commands, every odd byte stores something else??? (actually, I'm no= t=20 certain of the order)  It's also possible that the odd bytes aren't = even=20 used.  Any insight would be helpful.
 
At byte 3616 there seems to be some footer=20 information about the file, but I can't quite make out what it is.  = I'd=20 be happy to make the decoded files available to anyone interested to look= at=20 in a hex editor.
 
At any rate, I can successfully decode these f= iles=20 without error, and should be able to create new .wav files that are digit= ally=20 perfect and will load on an Astrocade.  I'd like to get my hands on = a=20 .wav file of an actual game and decode it.
 
       &nbs= p;       =20 Bob
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0ADA7.01F43860-- From tfrevor@y... Fri Mar 16 05:39:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: tfrevor@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 13:39:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 2011 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 13:39:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 13:39:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4704.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.204) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 13:39:04 -0000 Message-ID: <20010316133903.20826.qmail@w...> Received: from [47.230.0.41] by web4704.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:39:03 PST Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:39:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: New Bally programs To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Thomas Revor Here's a thought and a suggestion for our programmers out there. I, for one, despised entering Basic programs in via the Bally keypad. (It was a nuisance back then, I dread about it now...) With the great news about BallyWav, is there any possibility of someone writing a program so we could type in new programs in our IBM/Mac/*nix systems and have it save it in a format usable by the Bally? The straight text shouldn't be too difficult, but I don't know if it saved the keywords differently. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ballyalley@h... Fri Mar 16 09:25:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 17:25:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 65406 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 17:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 17:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.21) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 18:26:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:25:11 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <20010316133903.20826.qmail@w...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] New Bally programs Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:28:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01C0ADFB.706D9440" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2001 17:25:11.0680 (UTC) FILETIME=[0E423800:01C0AE3E] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C0ADFB.706D9440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Entering BASIC programs with a text editor on a personal computer has alway= s sounded like a viable idea. It would work like this: 1. Any text editor would be used to type in a BASIC program. 2. Once the BASIC program is saved as ASCII, another program is used to tr= anslate the ASCII to the token codes that the Astrocade understands. 3. Then that file would be made into a WAV with Bob's forthcoming program. Entering Astrocade BASIC programs via a PC's keyboard is a nice idea, but I= have hopes that once a hardware/software method is created for people to w= ork on the Astrocade, there will be new machine language games created. Why? Astrocade BASIC is still limited to 1.8K. A machine language programme= r can take advantage of all 8K allotted to a cartridge. As Ward has pointed= out, not all the past cartridges have even used all 8K of the space availa= ble; some carts use as little as 2K. It will be very interesting to see wha= t people can come up with nowadays. PLUS, if a RAM device is created that enables access to commercial mode (hi= gher quality graphics), then machine language MUST be used because BASIC ca= n not take advantage of that mode. Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C0ADFB.706D9440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Entering BASIC programs with a text editor on a personal computer has al= ways=20 sounded like a viable idea. It would work like this:

1.  Any text editor would be used to type in a BASIC program.

2.  Once the BASIC program is saved as ASCII, another program is us= ed to=20 translate the ASCII to the token codes that the Astrocade understands.

3.  Then that file would be made into a WAV with Bob's forthcoming= =20 program.

Entering Astrocade BASIC programs via a PC's keyboard is a nice idea, bu= t I=20 have hopes that once a hardware/software method is created for people to wo= rk on=20 the Astrocade, there will be new machine language games created.

Why? Astrocade BASIC is still limited to 1.8K. A machine language progra= mmer=20 can take advantage of all 8K allotted to a cartridge. As Ward has pointed o= ut,=20 not all the past cartridges have even used all 8K of the space available; s= ome=20 carts use as little as 2K. It will be very interesting to see what people c= an=20 come up with nowadays.

PLUS, if a RAM device is created that enables access to commercial mode= =20 (higher quality graphics), then machine language MUST be used because BASIC= can=20 not take advantage of that mode.

Adam Trionfo

------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C0ADFB.706D9440-- From tfrevor@y... Fri Mar 16 13:27:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: tfrevor@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 21:27:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 44062 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 21:27:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 21:27:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4702.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.202) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 22:28:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20010316212710.5523.qmail@w...> Received: from [47.230.0.41] by web4702.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:27:10 PST Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:27:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [ballyalley] New Bally programs To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Thomas Revor I would agree, and I think a hardware method is a terrific idea, but I still think a PC method of entering would be a nice idea. Why? Personally, I'm not a machine language programmer. But I would love to try programming again with the Bally. Even something as limited in RAM as BallyBasic. Also, once the method of BallyWav is worked out, it should be easy to write up a method of using the PC to write them up until the hardware method comes out. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ballyalley@h... Fri Mar 16 14:25:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 22:25:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 76294 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 22:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 22:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.17) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 22:25:27 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:25:26 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: <20010316212710.5523.qmail@w...> Subject: On BASIC and the "hardware" method Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:28:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0AE25.62C56320" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2001 22:25:26.0769 (UTC) FILETIME=[0016A610:01C0AE68] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0AE25.62C56320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable By "hardware" method, I am not discounting the idea of entering programs vi= a a PC keyboard. No, entering BASIC programs that way is something I look = forward to. What I mean by the "hardware" expansion is a device that allows programs to= be written on a PC and then loaded into the devices extra RAM as an Astroc= ade cartridge. This device might also allow access to the Commercial mode = graphics. If you read some past posts, it is mentioned. Finally, I am actually looking forward to people playing around with BASIC.= New programs that people might write will certainly be posted on Bally Al= ley. I said a few weeks away that I wouln't be surprised to see someone wr= ite a primitive version of Tetris in Bally BASIC. I'm sure someone is up t= o the task... Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0AE25.62C56320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
By "hardware" method, I am not discounting th= e idea=20 of entering programs via a PC keyboard.  No, entering BASIC programs t= hat=20 way is something I look forward to.
 
What I mean by the "hardware" expansion is a devic= e that=20 allows programs to be written on a PC and then loaded into the devices extr= a RAM=20 as an Astrocade cartridge.  This device might also allow access t= o the=20 Commercial mode graphics.  If you read some past posts, it is=20 mentioned.
 
Finally, I am actually looking forward to people playin= g=20 around with BASIC.  New programs that people might write wil= l=20 certainly be posted on Bally Alley.  I said a few weeks away that I wo= uln't=20 be surprised to see someone write a primitive version of Tetris in Bally=20 BASIC.  I'm sure someone is up to the task...
 
Adam Trionfo
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0AE25.62C56320-- From cybpunks@m... Sat Mar 17 00:34:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 17 Mar 2001 08:34:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 19003 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 08:34:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2001 08:34:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls01.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.20) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 08:34:14 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2H8YDj22091 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 00:34:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010317002651.033aab50@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 00:36:29 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: tape format figured out In-Reply-To: <984730021.529.12908.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders At 08:07 AM 3/16/2001 +0000, you wrote: > At any rate, I can successfully decode these files without error, and >should be able to create new .wav files that are digitally perfect and will >load on an Astrocade. I'd like to get my hands on a .wav file of an actual >game and decode it. Is this relevant to both the slow and fast tape formats? I wasn't expecting this problem to be solved for at least the next six months. Congratulations, Bob! This means all these old basic programs could be converted to a compact BIN format and Adam's hope that it would be possible to create a Bally Basic bytecode cross-compiler for the PC would be possible. I'll see if I can digitize the two tapes I have which I had trouble loading on an Astrocade when I had one back in 94. Unfortunately I don't have a very high quality tape deck. It's just a boom box. If anyone else wants to digitize these tapes for me, let me know. I'll just give them away for that purpose. They really belong to JerryG anyway ;) But I think he got them on loan from someone else originally... Probably the best way to figure out how the data is stored on the tapes is to use the emulator with Basic and type in a program and do the same on a real unit. Then save to tape, decode it, and compare bytes with the bytes that are memory-resident in the emulator. Whatever matches up is the Basic bytecode. Whatever doesn't is some kind of header/footer/checksum/memory-management stuff. From rcolbert1@h... Sat Mar 17 04:51:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rcolbert1@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 17 Mar 2001 12:51:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 77871 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 12:51:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2001 12:51:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.87) by mta2 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 12:51:55 -0000 Received: from cx727596b ([24.183.207.151]) by femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010317125154.OWQJ4228.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 04:51:54 -0800 To: Subject: RE: [ballyalley] tape format figured out Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 07:07:54 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010317002651.033aab50@p...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal From: "Bob Colbert" I'm not sure which format I have, the slow or the fast. I think it is the slow format. The program I wrote to remaster the tapes still is "not ready for prime-time". To use it I have to manually manipulate the .wav file to get it in a format the program likes. Some of the "smart" algorithms in makebin for the Supercharger don't apply to the Bally... Currently I convert the .wav file to 16-bit mono signed format and make sure that the sine-waves are not inverted. Once I do that, the program reads flawlessly. I'm in the process of rewriting some of the original makebin code to make it more flexible so that it can work with both the SC and the Bally. In the mean time, I will see about making a new .wav file from one of the old ones I have and see if people can load it. It shouldn't be too hard to make a pc Bally Basic "compiler", Though I still need to run some more tests to determine what information is in that footer. Of course, how fast I do this is up in the air since my two kids seem to devour almost every waking moment I have :^) Bob P.S. Glenn, please send .wav files of those tapes along, I'd like to give them a whirl. -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Saunders [mailto:cybpunks@m...] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 2:36 AM To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ballyalley] tape format figured out At 08:07 AM 3/16/2001 +0000, you wrote: > At any rate, I can successfully decode these files without error, and >should be able to create new .wav files that are digitally perfect and will >load on an Astrocade. I'd like to get my hands on a .wav file of an actual >game and decode it. Is this relevant to both the slow and fast tape formats? I wasn't expecting this problem to be solved for at least the next six months. Congratulations, Bob! This means all these old basic programs could be converted to a compact BIN format and Adam's hope that it would be possible to create a Bally Basic bytecode cross-compiler for the PC would be possible. I'll see if I can digitize the two tapes I have which I had trouble loading on an Astrocade when I had one back in 94. Unfortunately I don't have a very high quality tape deck. It's just a boom box. If anyone else wants to digitize these tapes for me, let me know. I'll just give them away for that purpose. They really belong to JerryG anyway ;) But I think he got them on loan from someone else originally... Probably the best way to figure out how the data is stored on the tapes is to use the emulator with Basic and type in a program and do the same on a real unit. Then save to tape, decode it, and compare bytes with the bytes that are memory-resident in the emulator. Whatever matches up is the Basic bytecode. Whatever doesn't is some kind of header/footer/checksum/memory-management stuff. Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ballyalley@h... Sat Mar 17 14:28:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 17 Mar 2001 22:28:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 17878 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 22:28:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2001 22:28:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.118) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 22:28:54 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:28:54 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [24.130.216.135] To: References: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] tape format figured out Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:32:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01C0AEEF.0A1C0880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Mar 2001 22:28:54.0484 (UTC) FILETIME=[A64F3140:01C0AF31] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C0AEEF.0A1C0880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable March 17, 2001 Bob, For your information, you have been working with the 2000 baud format. I c= an record some of the 300 baud format cassettes for you if you like, but th= ey are much longer (about four to five minutes), so they will also be much = larger files even when compressed with zip. Plus, I can not test how well = they have been working. I would say that about 80% of the 100 or so cassettes that I have are in th= e 2000 baud format. After the new Bally BASIC was released, everything tha= t I have seen has a 2000 baud version on one side and a 300 baud version on= the other. I can not test the 300 baud cassettes because I do not have the interface t= hat plugs into ports 3 and 4 (though I DO have the older Bally BASIC cartri= dge). If anyone has an interface to lend or sell, I am interested. Most everything released on 300 baud cassettes can be converted to 2000 bau= d and still run (though I have never done this myself). Some programs (mos= tly non-games) will not work because they take advantage of a few features = that were dropped from the second release of BASIC. Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C0AEEF.0A1C0880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
March 17, 2001
 
Bob,
 
For your information, you have been working with the 20= 00 baud=20 format.  I can record some of the 300 baud format cassettes for you if= you=20 like, but they are much longer (about four to five minutes), so they will a= lso=20 be much larger files even when compressed with zip.  Plus, I can not t= est=20 how well they have been working.
 
I would say that about 80% of the 100 or so cassettes t= hat I=20 have are in the 2000 baud format.  After the new Bally BASIC was relea= sed,=20 everything that I have seen has a 2000 baud version on one side and a 300 b= aud=20 version on the other.
 
I can not test the 300 baud cassettes because I do not = have=20 the interface that plugs into ports 3 and 4 (though I DO have the older Bal= ly=20 BASIC cartridge).  If anyone has an interface to lend or sell, I = am=20 interested.
 
Most everything released on 300 baud cassettes can be=20 converted to 2000 baud and still run (though I have never done this=20 myself).  Some programs (mostly non-games) will not work because they = take=20 advantage of a few features that were dropped from the second release of=20 BASIC.
 
Adam Trionfo
 
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C0AEEF.0A1C0880-- From cybpunks@m... Sat Mar 17 15:39:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 17 Mar 2001 23:39:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 37438 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 23:39:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2001 23:39:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls01.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.20) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 00:40:30 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2HNdPj11166 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:39:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010317153147.02cb2b00@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:41:42 -0800 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: developments In-Reply-To: <984845918.224.50805.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders At 04:18 PM 3/17/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Entering Astrocade BASIC programs via a PC's keyboard is a nice idea, but >I have hopes that once a hardware/software method is created for people to >work on the Astrocade, there will be new machine language games created. Assembly on the 2600 is a necessity. 100% assembly on a heavily expanded Astrocade isn't any more necessary than any other home computer like an Atari XL or C=64. The best of both worlds is to have a low-profile Basic on ROM that supports ML subroutines. Even regular Bally Basic supports ML. As I recall, the extended Bally Basic for the Blue Ram runs entirely from RAM, doesn't it? Seems rather wasteful. >Why? Astrocade BASIC is still limited to 1.8K. A machine language >programmer can take advantage of all 8K allotted to a cartridge. As Ward >has pointed out, not all the past cartridges have even used all 8K of the >space available; some carts use as little as 2K. It will be very >interesting to see what people can come up with nowadays. But without an extended memory device, there is no easy way to develop games. Burning EPROMs is a pain in the ass and the emulators are not 100% yet. >PLUS, if a RAM device is created that enables access to commercial mode >(higher quality graphics), then machine language MUST be used because >BASIC can not take advantage of that mode. A new version of extended Basic would definitely be needed. >What I mean by the "hardware" expansion is a device that allows programs >to be written on a PC and then loaded into the devices extra RAM as an >Astrocade cartridge. This device might also allow access to the >Commercial mode graphics. If you read some past posts, it is mentioned. If it's merely a RAM cartridge then programs will be limited to 8K unless banked (like the SuperDuperCharger). It would have to be a device that plugs into the back expansion slot. >I'm not sure which format I have, the slow or the fast. I think it is the >slow format. The program I wrote to remaster the tapes still is "not ready The slow format uses the light pen port. The fast format is the one that plugs into the cart itself. >sine-waves are not inverted. Once I do that, the program reads flawlessly. >I'm in the process of rewriting some of the original makebin code to make it >more flexible so that it can work with both the SC and the Bally. In the And the SuperDuperCharger? From ballyalley@h... Fri Apr 06 23:45:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 7 Apr 2001 06:45:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 35466 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2001 06:45:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2001 06:45:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.87) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Apr 2001 07:46:40 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 23:45:36 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Seven Arcadian issues added Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 23:45:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2001 06:45:36.0489 (UTC) FILETIME=[59F34590:01C0BF2E] From: "Bally Alley" April 6, 2001 I have added seven more issues of the Arcadian to www.ballyalley.com They are: Volume 6 - Issue 1 (10 Pages) Volume 6 - Issue 2 (10 Pages) Volume 6 - Issue 3 (10 Pages) Volume 6 - Issue 4 (10 Pages) Volume 6 - Issue 5 (10 Pages) Volume 6 - Issue 6 (10 Pages) Volume 7 - Issue 4 (46 Pages) - Final issue This is one-hundred-six more pages of Astrocade goodness for your reading pleasure. Remember, if you have trouble downloading these Adobe Acrobat files, left click and save them to your hard drive. You will be able to view them fine at this point. Adam Trionfo From jwkrych@n... Sat Apr 07 13:43:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 7 Apr 2001 20:43:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 27439 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2001 20:43:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Apr 2001 20:43:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Apr 2001 20:43:36 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.126] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id ABA0CAA0030A; Sat, 07 Apr 2001 15:42:08 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c0bfa6$360d6de0$7e4f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Seven Arcadian issues added Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 17:03:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0BF84.AE10D1A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0BF84.AE10D1A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adam! I only wish my ISP wasn't so tempermental about Bally Alley. I can access a= t work, but cannot save files to disk from our kiosks. Can you give me the = exact URL numbers? That seems to work mostly. Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0BF84.AE10D1A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Adam!
 
I only wish my ISP wasn't so tempermental about Bally A= lley. I=20 can access at work, but cannot save files to disk from our kiosks. Can you = give=20 me the exact URL numbers? That seems to work mostly.
 
Jim
 
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0BF84.AE10D1A0-- From ballyalley@h... Sun Apr 08 22:42:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 9 Apr 2001 05:42:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 1808 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 05:42:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Apr 2001 05:42:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 05:42:57 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 22:42:57 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 05:42:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Print material yet to come to Bally Alley Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 22:42:57 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2001 05:42:57.0718 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE5FD560:01C0C0B7] From: "Adam Trionfo" April 8, 2001 Following is a list of items that will eventually make there way to the Bally Alley web site. * Arcadian volume 1-5 (Approx. 600 Single Sided Pages) * Mr. Houser's book of programs (114 Single Sided pages) * DATAMAX UV-1 Z-Grass Graphics System (143 Single Sided pages) * Tom DeFanti's Byte book (25 Single Sided pages) * Bally System Description (6 Double Sided pages) * General Video Assembler (8 Double Sided pages) * Bally ROM source (68 Double Sided pages STILL to do) * Sourcebook Fall 1980 (27 Double Sided Pages) * Sourcebook Summer 1981 (Approx. 50 Double Sided Pages) * Sourcebook Fall 1981 (Approx. 50 Double Sided Pages) * Sourcebook Summer 1982 (Approx. 50 Double Sided Pages) * Sourcebook Spring 1983 (Approx. 50 Double Sided Pages) * Misc. (Approx. 100 Single Sided Pages) Miscellaneous includes game manuals and other items that I have not even looked through yet (hand-written programs and more). This doesn't include newsletters that I expect soon (Astrbugs and Niagara Bug newsletters as well as the lengthy Machine Language Manager manual). Please don't bother asking what some of these items contain because I haven't been able to read most of this. When each is posted, you will see. One fact I DID find out tonight is that the UV-1 is a name for the Astrocade. That explains the Z-Grass manual name. And no, I don't have a Z-Grass keyboard. When one pops up, that lucky owner might even be able to try it. Remember, most of this isn't just a matter of scanning the material, it all needs to be cleaned up so that it is presentable, and most of all, readable. If you have print material that I have not listed here, please contact me. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Wed Apr 11 15:17:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 11 Apr 2001 22:17:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 1572 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 22:17:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Apr 2001 22:17:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.188) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 22:17:15 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:17:14 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 22:17:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New Astrocade information from Michael White (Lengthy) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:17:13 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Apr 2001 22:17:14.0144 (UTC) FILETIME=[29338A00:01C0C2D5] From: "Adam Trionfo" April 11, 2001 This posting contains a letter that Michael White sent to me. It discusses many of the topics that have come up in the Astrocade discussion group. But who is Michael White? Michael bought his Astrocade in 1979, but it wasn't until a few years later that he heard about the Arcadian and subsequently became a subscriber to the newsletter. In volumes six and seven (the last two years) you will find that his name pops up frequently (he wrote a series called Tricks of the Trade). He wrote a BASIC game called "Quadra" that eventually become more complex and grew to 16K (a rarity on the Astrocade). With urging in 1990 he even made a "Deluxe version." He also wrote Hangman, Snoop Camera, Unpack and others. In the mid-eighties Michael began making cartridges (with permission of the copyright holders) of unavailable Astrocade and third party titles (an early ad for this appears on page 87 (vol. 7) of the Arcadian). He was also able to put just about anything else onto cartridge as well (including BASIC programs). His 16K game, "Quadra" is available as a cartridge (for those with extended memory systems). Michael does NOT have an email account (or even any other computer besides the Astrocade). I sent him a printout of the discussion board up through posting ninety-three. His letter contains comments on what he read there, as well as the to-be-released update of the Astrocade FAQ (currently at version 2.8). This posting letter is long, but well worth the read. I have made several additional comments after his letter (including some information on acquiring cartridges from him in the near future). His letter begins now: Where do I begin? There is so much here all at once I feel I'm catching up from at least a five-year absence! As to the High Res or Commercial mode of the Arcade, there WAS a machine built that did just that. If you look in the old Arcadians you may see an ad asking where to buy the U2 computer. The Bally engineers used this machine to design commercial games on. I don't know who would have one or where. Rumor has it that this machine could also do Consumer mode at the throw of a switch, or maybe that's just a rumor. As to the MLM [Machine Language Manager cartridge], it may be good for some of you, but the Blue Ram Utility has a full function hex editor on board that lets you see the ENTIRE screen and later versions had a disassemble feature that lets you see and learn everything in the system! As to Magic RAM, I hope your assessments of expanding are correct. As it does NOT work outside of the 4K area now. Even the stack area CANNOT move and function properly! See the write up in the Arcadian in Vol. 5 near the end where George Moses and Joy Fenton take their "Annual Fishing Trip." As to "Bank Switching" in the cartridge port, been there, done that, also. If any of you want an old BB [Bally BASIC] program to load without an interface, send me a tape of the program and I'll burn you one ($10.00 for the parts please) and it will be usable. So you see, none of the old software is in danger of being lost this way! The General Video Assembler DID use the 2000 baud interface! The instructions told how. Remember, it was written by Dave Ibach (Vol. 4 Arcadian, Cart swapping). As for comparing The Wizard of Wor game with its commercial counterpart, the coin-op version TALKS(!) if you do remember. Galaxian was totally different in the coin-op game! I know, I worked at a vending Co. in the 1980's. Here's an idea that was tossed around but tabled because of lack of experience! A BASIC that puts its program in the 3-4K area instead of Bit Mapping Screen RAM. The Pack and Unpack routines could be totally omitted. Taping could also be omitted, freeing up space for the handling of the other two screen colors! A 64K RAM board would be needed (or similar) to create BASIC programs, but the games would plug in and Run instantly on anyone's arcade! There would be a few details to work out. But if you people out there know Z-80 [machine] language, perhaps you can make it work. Or maybe R&L already had one running as they had about a dozen BASICs written for their machine back in Sept 1983 at the Astro-Bash! Also, I had to do BB as well as AB [Astro BASIC] and BRB [Blue Ram BASIC] versions of the BASIC-carts, so as to get the $ function to work on the check-book program for Peggy Gladden. BB games available. As for the format AB used for taping, the two even bits represent the program, the two odd bits were the screen picture! As the entire 4K screen was taped, minus the stack. The exact order of packing can be asserted from the Unpack command in the Blue Ram Utility thanks to John Perkins. I have two questions: 1) "Missile Attack" You have it listed [in version 2.8 of the FAQ] as an Astrocade release. I never knew that is WAS released. I was told to modify I.C.B.M Attack for the Bally joysticks as Don Gladden [of New Image software] drug his feet and didn't do it. Was there a 2020 Missile Attack [a reference to the Bally FAQ] released that worked on Bally handles or not? 2) "Music Maker" On your web page [ballyalley.com], you show a box [manual, actually] labeled 1981. Nobody I knew ever bought one, and I've never seen that box before. George Moses had the software and Leroy Flamm made the circuit boards to have about thirty of them made. I have about a dozen left. Is there more out there? Where? As to a monitor connection, Dave Carson hooked it up and got black and white also. He made a few phone calls and got it working. But I don't know what he had to do. The Dust Cover (cartridge rack) was changed by Bally in 1979, not 1981 by Astrocade. Astrocade seems to have shipped out whatever one was on hand at any given time. EB [Extended BASIC] was on cassette, not Blue Ram BASIC! EB was written by Jay Fenton for extended memory systems and used by the Viper! Blue Ram Utility won't even run with EB but requires BRB to operate! Michael's letter also included a very short list of hardware and software that he had on cartridge and cassette. He also extends the offer to make cartridges of cassette programs (he still has parts available to create about one-hundred-twenty cartridges-- more if he gets more circuit boards made). Before I post this information, I want to make sure that he knows what he is getting himself into. He would be using his Astrocade to make the cartridges (as always), using a modified version of the EPROM burner for the Blue Ram. Let me make a few comments to clear up Michael's letter in a few places: 1) On the "General Video Assembler." This is a two-pass assembler released on cassette for extended memory systems. Michael told me that it was used to create the "Sneaky Snake" cartridge. 2) On the "$ function." For those of you that don't know, Astro BASIC eliminated this command that was included in the earlier Bally BASIC language. It accessed the Calculator program to take advantage of some of its functions. 3) On "Unpack." I will test this command when I get a functional Blue Ram Utility. Hopefully any information I gain will help Bob Colbert create the tape utility program ("AstroWAV," as we have been calling it here) for the PC. 4) On "Missile Attack." The last person that worked on the FAQ (Lance Squire) lists the program "Missile Attack" with these comments, "'never made production' They may have put it on the list anticipating working out a deal to buy ICBM Attack from me. (Brett Bilbrey). That fact is NOT listed on version 2.8 of the FAQ that Michael read-- it will be. And, by the way, Michael DID convert ICBM Attack to work with joysticks and sold it on cartridge as "Missile Attack." But it never had an official release. 5) On "Music Maker." Michael is referring to this picture of the Music Maker manual: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/pics/manual_covers/manual_music_maker_I.jpg I have this manual, but the pages inside are blank. I always thought it was a printing error. Richard Houser, the person I received it from, was a in a position to receive oddball material from Bally or Astrovision, so I am not at all surprised to learn this. 6) On "Extended BASIC". The version that shipped with the Viper I is called "Vipersoft BASIC". The letter also references issues of the Arcadian that are not up on the Bally Alley website yet. Give me time, they will be. Michael sent me photocopies of the manual for the "Machine Language Manager" cartridge (47 double-sided pages), and most (all?) issues of the newsletter, "Niagara B.U.G. Bulletin." He also said he would send me more "ads, instructions, etc." I hope this information from Michael spurs some of you to ask him questions, as he is VERY enthusiastic about the Astrocade and has an excellent memory. Any posting about this letter will find its way to Michael through me. If you have questions for him, post here, and he will read them. Be specific (and patient), because he will be responding through the U.S. mail, and I will be typing his comments (like I did here). I expect that he will have no problem with being written to directly, but I need to ask him to make sure before posting his address. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Fri Apr 13 00:07:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 13 Apr 2001 07:07:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 34921 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 07:07:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2001 07:07:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.120) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 07:07:08 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:07:07 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Adam Trionfo writes an Astro BASIC program Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:07:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Apr 2001 07:07:07.0994 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A39CBA0:01C0C3E8] From: "Bally Alley" April 12, 2001 I was playing around with Astro BASIC learning how to use it, so I wrote this program to learn some commands. This short program draws 144 5x5 squares on the screen then goes though the Astrocade's colors (remember BASIC can only show 2 colors at once, foreground and background). If you type this in, leave out all the comments (of course). Adam Trionfo 1 .ADAM TRIONFO 2 .4-12-2001 2 .DRAWS 144 SQUARES 3 .AND GOES THROUGH 4 .ASTROCADE COLORS 5 . 10 CLEAR 20 X=-78;Y=41 24 . 25 . DRAW SQUARES 26 . 30 FOR I=1TO 152STEP1 40 BOX X,Y,5,5,1 50 X=X+10 60 IF X>72X=-88;Y=Y-10 70 NEXT I 74 . 75 .CHANGE BACKGROUND 76 . 80 FOR B=0TO 254STEP1 90 BC=B 100 NEXT B 104 . 105 .CHANGE FOREGROUND 106 . 110 FOR F=0TO 254STEP1 120 FC=F 130 NEXT F 134 . 135 .CHANGE BOTH 136 . 140 F=254 150 FOR B=0TO254STEP1 160 BC=B;FC=F 170 F=F-1 180 NEXT B 184 . 185 .ORIGINAL COLORS 186 . 190 BC=7;FC=0 From ballyalley@h... Fri Apr 13 23:30:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 14 Apr 2001 06:30:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 66013 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 06:30:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Apr 2001 06:30:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 06:30:30 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 23:30:30 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Permission from Robert Fabris of the Arcadian Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 23:31:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Apr 2001 06:30:30.0820 (UTC) FILETIME=[67056640:01C0C4AC] From: "Bally Alley" April 13, 2001 It may be Friday the thirteenth, but I have good news. I received an email today from Robert Fabris. He sent me a detailed and informative history of the Astrocade for use as the introduction for the future Astrocade CD. It is excellent, and really shines light into many areas that many of us have wondered about. Of course, it IS for the CD and won't be distributed otherwise-- I guess this is Friday the Thirteenth after all. And, news that is equally as good, Robert wrote, "...you have my permission to republish the Arcadian online, and to convert listings to WAV files - as long as the Arcadian is credited." Permission to place the Arcadian online has already begun, but it has been unclear what could be done with the programs themselves. Could I make WAV files and place them online too? Well, now I know, I DO have permission to have the programs from the Arcadian online. The task now shifts from seeking permission to distribute the programs, to the challenging job of gathering all the programs up, digitizing them, and making sure that they will load on ANY Astro BASIC. One final item to mention. I asked Robert the correct way to pronounce his last name. He wrote, "And as to pronunciation, try "Fabric" and replace 'c' with 's'." Adam Trionfo From cybpunks@m... Sat Apr 14 12:57:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 14 Apr 2001 19:57:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 62680 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 19:57:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2001 19:57:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls01.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.20) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 19:57:51 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3EJvpC17582 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010414125938.0266f0d8@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 13:00:39 -0700 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: super In-Reply-To: <987244077.322.91641.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders Excellent work. I'm guessing that you are looking these guys numbers up and then doing the cold call? It's scary to do that but it's the only way. From guygg@3... Sat Apr 14 13:43:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: guygg@3... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 14 Apr 2001 20:43:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 34672 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 20:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2001 20:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp10.atl.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.246) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 20:43:41 -0000 Received: from guy (user-33qtbra.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.175.106]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA05928 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003901c0c526$72720cc0$0100a8c0@3...> To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010414125938.0266f0d8@p...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] super Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:04:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0C4FC.8938AF10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 From: "Guy G. Gordon" ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0C4FC.8938AF10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Excellent work indeed. It just warms my heart to know there are others wit= h the soft spot and dedication to this system. I look forward to ANY conte= nt that can be shared to the masses. I just finally scrounged out some Bally tapes and such. Haven't had the ti= me to check out what's on them, but will do so sometime soon. I'm also sti= ll digging for anything Bally related I can find. Keep up the outstanding work... It's appreciated. Guy Gordon guygg@3... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Glenn Saunders=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 3:00 PM Subject: [ballyalley] super Excellent work. I'm guessing that you are looking these guys numbers up= =20 and then doing the cold call? It's scary to do that but it's the only wa= y. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click Here to Find Software Faster=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0C4FC.8938AF10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Excellent work indeed.  It just warms= my heart=20 to know there are others with the soft spot and dedication to this system.&= nbsp;=20 I look forward to ANY content that can be shared to the masses.
 
I just finally scrounged out some Bal= ly tapes=20 and such.  Haven't had the time to check out what's on them, but will = do so=20 sometime soon.  I'm also still digging for anything Bally related I ca= n=20 find.
 
Keep up the outstanding work...  It's= =20 appreciated.
 
Guy Gordon
guygg@3...
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 Gl= enn=20 Saunders
To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 3:0= 0=20 PM
Subject: [ballyalley] super

Excellent work.  I'm guessing that you are lookin= g=20 these guys numbers up
and then doing the cold call?  It's scary = to do=20 that but it's the only way.



Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
ballyalley-unsubsc= ribe@yahoogroups.com



Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0C4FC.8938AF10-- From ward.shrake@w... Mon Apr 16 21:43:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 17 Apr 2001 04:43:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 74002 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 04:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2001 04:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ei.egroups.com) (10.1.2.114) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 04:43:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.59] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2001 04:43:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:43:38 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Sneaking up on a Bally Astrocade multicart design Message-ID: <9bghlq+4i43@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1164 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.35.128 From: "Ward Shrake" Just had to post... I'm all excited about getting my first multicart up and running! This one isn't for the Bally Astrocade; it is an 8-in- 1 multicart I designed for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 game system. It is ugly but functional, with dip switches to select a new game. But I'm thinking about that design in terms of seperate modules, so that as I get it working, I can just add known-good, pre-designed modules into future projects, such as a multicart for the Astrocade. My first prototype of a Bally Astrocade cart will hopefully be up and running "real soon now". (When it is, I'll say so here.) Question for Michael White: What do you have, as far as raw parts for making Bally Astrocade cartridges? Blank circuit boards? Plastic case housings? Both? Neither? What? I'm mostly just curious at the moment, but if I do get a design up and running for a Bally multicart, having plastic housings available would be a good thing? If that's not do-able, common carts can of course be used as donors. (And if I had to, I do know how to make raw castings using resins.) Ward Shrake http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/ http://classicgaming.com/vic20/ From ballyalley@h... Mon Apr 16 23:07:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 17 Apr 2001 06:07:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 77003 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 06:07:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2001 06:07:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.119) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 06:07:41 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:07:40 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: References: <9bghlq+4i43@e...> Subject: Bally cartridge cases Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:08:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0C6CA.2136B220" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Apr 2001 06:07:40.0888 (UTC) FILETIME=[B5B79D80:01C0C704] From: "Bally Alley" ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0C6CA.2136B220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable April 16, 2001 I know that Michael White has about 120 circuit boards, but many more plast= ic cartridge cases (about 700, I think). I'll be talking with him at the e= nd of the week, I'll ask him again. Adam Trionfo ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0C6CA.2136B220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
April 16, 2001
 
I know that Michael White has about 120 circuit boards,= but=20 many more plastic cartridge cases (about 700, I think).  I'll be= =20 talking with him at the end of the week, I'll ask him again.
 
Adam Trionfo
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0C6CA.2136B220-- From jwkrych@n... Tue Apr 17 15:23:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 17 Apr 2001 22:23:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 50545 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 22:23:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2001 22:23:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.n2net.net) (216.28.78.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 22:23:30 -0000 Received: from jim [216.28.79.188] by mail.n2net.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A20A8719015E; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:22:02 -0400 Message-ID: <001601c0c78f$dcc01340$bc4f1cd8@j...> Reply-To: "james w krych" To: References: <9bghlq+4i43@e...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Bally cartridge cases Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:43:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0C76E.54DD67A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "james w krych" ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0C76E.54DD67A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ATTENTION RETROGAMERS, COMPUTER COLLECTORS, VIDEO GAME FANATICS!!!! WE'RE BACK.... CCAG 2001 (Classic Computer and Gaming 2001) If you like collecting old computers, video games, and enjoy using them sti= ll, then come join us on: June 30th, 2001 9AM till 6PM National Guard Armory IT'S ON ROUTE 57!!! (actual address) 3520 Grove Avenue Lorain, Ohio 44055-2048 (On Route 57, going North of I-90/Route 2) IT'S FREE! Both vendors and attendees! Computer User Groups and vendors inside, flea market outside! 5,000 square feet of indoor space and an additional 5,000 square feet of ou= tdoor space is available along with ample parking. Setup: 29th, June, 2001=20 6PM-10PM Please Call Ahead for Reservations: Jim W. Krych jwkrych@n... 440-979-9295 Fred M. Horvat fmh@n... 440-286-2566 And these other CCAG 2001 organizers: Thomas J. McLaren sirthomas@u... Please visit this site: http://tomheroes.com/ccag.htm As of 04/17/2001 User Groups: Erie PA Atari Group=20 TI Chips Cleveland Classic Atari Group Vendors: C.S. Vintage Games L.R.O. Computers Tomorrow's Heroes=20 Retropolis Songbird Productions Video Game Connection Ramcharged Computers People/Organizations: Fred Wagaman Harry Dodgson=20 Alan Hewston Thomas Mclaren Andy Frueh Classic Gamer Magazine Curt Vendel(Atari Historical Society) John Litva Possible Attendees!!! Michael White(Bally/Astrocade) Atari7800.com=20 Special Guest!!! Pitfall Harry We are looking to do a "Classic Game Experience" this year! One room is going to be set up for playing classic computer and video game = cartoons and commercials. The other room is going to be an emulator room-MA= ME, etc.=20 We already have one person bringing a Crazy Climber cocktail arcade game, J= ohn Litva. Please email us if you wish to bring an arcade game to the show. See ya at the CCAG! ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0C76E.54DD67A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

ATTENTION RETROGAMERS, COMPUTER COLLECTORS, VIDEO GAME=20 FANATICS!!!!

 

WE’RE BACK……..

 

 

 

 

CCAG 2001

(Classic Computer and Gaming 2001)

 

If you like collecting old computers, video games, and en= joy=20 using them still, then come join us on:

 

June 30th, 2001

9AM till 6PM

National Guard Armory

IT’S ON ROUTE 57!!!

(actual address)

3520 Grove Avenue

Lorain, Ohio 44055-2048

(On Route 57, going North of I-90/Route 2)

 

IT’S FREE!

Both vendors and attendees!

Computer User Groups and vendors inside, flea market=20 outside!

5,000 square feet of indoor space and an additional 5,000= square=20 feet of outdoor space is available along with ample parking.

 

Setup: 29th, June, 2001

6PM-10PM

Please Call Ahead for Reservations:

Jim W. Krych jwkrych@n...

440-979-9295

Fred M. Horvat fmh@n...

440-286-2566

And these other CCAG 2001 organizers:

Thomas J. McLaren sirthomas@u...

Please visit this site:

http://tomheroes.com/ccag.htm

 

 

As of 04/17/2001

User Groups:

Erie PA Atari Group

TI Chips

Cleveland Classic Atari Group

Vendors:

C.S. Vintage Games

L.R.O. Computers

Tomorrow's Heroes

Retropolis

Songbird Productions

Video Game Connection

Ramcharged Computers

People/Organizations:

Fred Wagaman

Harry Dodgson

Alan Hewston

Thomas Mclaren

Andy Frueh

Classic Gamer Magazine

Curt Vendel(Atari Historical Society)

John Litva

Possible Attendees!!!

Michael White(Bally/Astrocade)

Atari7800.com

Special Guest!!!

Pitfall Harry

 

We are looking to do a "Classic Game Experience" this yea= r!

One room is going to be set up for playing classic comput= er and=20 video game cartoons and commercials. The other room is going to be an emula= tor=20 room-MAME, etc.

We already have one person bringing a Crazy Climber cockt= ail=20 arcade game, John Litva. Please email us if you wish to bring an arcade gam= e to=20 the show.

See ya at the CCAG!

 

------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0C76E.54DD67A0-- From ballyalley@h... Wed Apr 18 13:10:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 18 Apr 2001 20:10:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 42681 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 20:10:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 18 Apr 2001 20:10:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.205) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 20:10:38 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:10:38 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Overview of the Astrocade and its Relation to the UV-1 Computer Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:10:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Apr 2001 20:10:38.0051 (UTC) FILETIME=[A277FB30:01C0C843] From: "Bally Alley" Overview of the Astrocade and Its Relation to the UV-1 Computer By Adam Trionfo Michael White (who I've been talking with recently about the Astrocade) told me about the UV-1 computer. He didn't know much about the machine, but had heard rumors that it was used for development at Bally to create cartridges. The "rumor is that it had a switch for 16K and 64K." He DID emphasize that this was just a rumor and that he didn't know much about the machine or ZGRASS. He never "bought into that." Being unsure just how much this UV-1 machine is related to the Astrocade, I began investigating the connection of the UV-1 with the Astrocade. I have already run into some surprising and informative information. I have received responses from two people that worked with the UV-1, and another from Tom Defanti himself (the primary author of the GRASS language and more). Following are the responses they gave to me. You will find my comments on this information after the last email. I separate each email with five indented apostrophes followed by who wrote the email and when it was received. Though these emails were NOT conducted in an interview-type manner, but I have presented some of them this way (it makes reading them easier). Finally, I have done little editing of these letters, save for some very minor typos. ***** Jane Veeder (Part I) - April 16, 2001 JANE - Boy, what a Pandora's box you have opened! Who are you and what is your interest in the long forgotten early days of computer graphics???!!?? After one of em appearing in the SIGGRAPH 2000 History Exhibition, I finally threw away my two zboxes last summer after carting em around for twenty years as well as a couple of videogame cabinets, etc...boy that old stuff was heavy...I just had to move on... ADAM - I have been searching for information on the UV-1 (late seventies, early eighties) computer and I found your name connected with it. Is there anything you can tell me about it? The UV-1 was a graphics machine, can you tell me anything about the graphic capabilities of this computer. Did you program in ZGRASS? Do you remember how much RAM it had? The UV-1 cost, I think, ten-thousand dollars; was it a personal computer, or more than that? How were programs saved (other than NTSC video)? JANE - ZGRASS (Graphics Symbiosis System for the Z-80) was developed in Chicago in the late 70's. It first ran on the "add-on" - actually it was an add-under - to the Bally Arcade. Then a little company called Datamax was created to manufacture the UV-1 which was based on the Bally Chip set and the electronics designed at Dave Nutting and Assocs. in Chicago. I bought the second UV-1 manufactured early in 1980. I was part of the community of people who worked with Tom on writing documentation, creating demos, developing the language, designing apps, and making art. It was a rare time which created interesting career trajectories for everyone who participated. ADAM - If you used the UV-1 only as an artist's tool, you may not be able to answer any of these questions. JANE - ZRASS was a descendent of GRASS, developed by Tom for his doctoral thesis at Ohio State. It was developed FOR artists and designers based upon Tom's brilliant thought that such people could program if they just didn't have to use Fortran. This was a time (reverb) BEFORE APPLICATIONS......>:) If you wanted it to do anything, you had to write it. In those days, artists and designers who wanted to work with computers HAD TO PROGRAM because that was the only way to communicate with them. Think about this: The zbox was released when the paint program was a RESEARCH topic..... A few applications were developed for the machine by Real Time Designs, the startup created to foster the UV-1 and ZGRASS, and a few other people, but mostly those who used it created apps for their own special purposes, including interactive art installations, drawing programs, animation development, etc. It think it cost about $3-4K and worked with a Lear-Siegler terminal and graphics monitor and eventually a graphics tablet, a floppy disk drive, digitizer, Winchester drive, etc. I don't remember how much memory it had, but my installation WARPITOUT filled a 192K EPROM board which was developed to fit in the zbox and ran it like a videogame. The language interpreter (you could also compile your programs for faster performance) lived in eproms and incorporated a rudimentary operating system adequate for storing and retrieving programs, etc. All this, in a particle board case with wood-grain Formica.... ADAM - Regardless, I have never seen ANY animated work completed on the UV-1. Do you know where I might be able to see some-- to buy some? JANE - BUY SOME? HAHAHAHA. Sorry...I laugh because at the time this was all done, there wasn't much money in hi tech startups or computer animation...>:) ADAM - The UV-1 interests me because it is a relative of the Bally Professional Arcade, a computer marketed in late 1977 by Bally. The Bally unit was rumored to have an add-on (unreleased) that would have some of the capability of the UV-1, and I am trying to follow the muddled history of the UV-1 machine. JANE - Yes, we all started out learning to program in Tiny Basic (developed by Jay Fenton, one of the founders of Macromind (now Macromedia) and now Jamie Faye Fenton) on the Bally Arcade and then graduated to ZGRASS. ADAM - I hope to hear from you soon. JANE - I've attached a couple of images from the zgrass days. [I have placed these two excellent images in the file area of the message board-- Adam]. I am in the slow process of getting a bio website together and will have more on that. Montana was also recently shown at MOMA-NY as part of a historical series (it's in their permanent collection). Good luck with your adventure... ***** From Tom Defanti - April 14, 2001 ADAM - Is there anything you can tell me about the development and use of the UV-1? When was it finally released? In what numbers? The UV-1 was a graphics machine, can you tell me about the graphic capabilities of this computer? You created ZGRASS, right (and earlier GRASS)? TOM - Oh, there were maybe 300 made. It had the high-res (320x204x2bit) version of the chipset in the Bally Arcade, which was also used in the Wizard of Wor and Gorf games (right Jamie?). A bunch of us wrote Zgrass, including Jay, Nola Donato, and me. I was the primary author of the PDP-11 based Grass language in the 70's. We started Zgrass in late 1977 and continued to work on it until about 1982. (It then was rewritten in C as RT/1 and worked on IBM PCs with Targa boards and Macs. Work continued on RT/1 until 1987, culminating in a major museum exhibition, The Interactive Image, at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago which ran late 1987-early 1988, and then was cloned a bunch.) ADAM - The UV-1 cost, I think, ten-thousand dollars; was it a personal computer, or more than that? How were programs saved (other than NTSC video)? TOM - As Jane notes, it started about $3,000 and ramped up to $20,000 with every bell and whistle possible, like ram disks, video digitizers, hard disks, etc. It used 5.25" floppies (192K if I remember correctly) and had 32K of ram, standard, including the 16K of video ram. Like the Bally Arcade, it produced just fine NTSC video, something the Apple II never did. ADAM - I have never seen ANY animated work completed on the UV-1. Do you know where I might be able to see some-- to buy some? TOM - The SIGGRAPH video review early issues have some pieces (see www.siggraph.org). If you are really interested, I'll go look up the specific issues for you. ADAM - The UV-1 interests me because it is a relative of the Bally Professional Arcade, a computer marketed in late 1977 by Bally. The Bally unit was rumored to have an add-on (unreleased) that would have some of the capability of the UV-1, and I am trying to follow the muddled history of the UV-1 machine. TOM - We definitely produced an add-on. Copper Giloth's Skippy Peanut Butter Jars piece was produced on it. It was the low-res version, of course. We made about 7 of them. They had the most amazingly forgiving audio tape recording and playback software. When Bally bailed and sold the Arcade to Astrocade, we also started up the Datamax company which produced the wood grain formica UV-1 versions of Zgrass with essentially the guts of the commercial videogames Bally was producing with the chipset. ADAM - If it interests you, I have a site dedicated to the Bally Astrocade at www.ballyalley.com TOM - Cool. Give me your postal address and I'll send you some stuff next time I'm going through the archives. TOM - Here's some relevant papers... I'm sure many of them are out of print. The ones before 1978 are on the Grass System. T.A. DeFanti, "Computer Graphics as a Way of Life," introductory chapter to The Algorithmic Image by Michael Rivlin, 1986 T.A. DeFanti, "The Mass Impact of Videogame Technology," Advances in Computing, Vol. 23, Academic Press, 1984 T.A. DeFanti, "Extended Memory Use in the Zgrass Graphics System," Proceedings of Intergraphics '83, April 1983 T.A. DeFanti, "The Zgrass Glossary and Lessons," published as tutorial notes for Intergraphics'83, 144 pages, Tokyo, Japan, April 1983. T.A. DeFanti , J. Fenton and N. Donato., "Basic Zgrass," Computer Graphics, Vol. 12, No. 3, August, 1978 T. Towle and T.A. DeFanti, "GAIN: An Interactive Program for Teaching Interactive Computer Graphics Programming," Computer Graphics, Vol. 12, No. 3, August 1978. T.A. DeFanti and D.J. Sandin, "Instructional Electronic Visualization," Proceedings of the IEEE Workshop on Picture Data Description and Management, April 1977 T.A. DeFanti, D.J. Sandin, and R. Ainsworth, "Control Structures for Performance Graphics," SIGPLAN Notices, Vol. II, No. 6, 6/76 T.A. DeFanti, "The Digital Component of the Circle Graphics Habitat," Proceedings of the National Computer Conference, 1976. T.A. DeFanti, "Toward Loopless Interactive Graphics Programming," Proceedings of the Conference on Computer Graphics, Pattern Recognition and Data Structure, IEEE Catalog #75CH0981-1C, May 1975. T.A. DeFanti, D.J. Sandin and T.H. Nelson, "Computer Graphics as a Way of Life," Computers and Graphics, Vol I, No. 1, May 1975 ***** Jane Veeder (Part II) - April 16, 2001 Jane sent me this response after reading what Tom had to say. JANE : In response to Tom's mentioning the SIGGRAPH Video Reviews (ongoing videotape journal founded by Tom which documents the history of computer graphics) where you can see some Zgrass/UV-1 work, here are some of the issues which I know include examples of animation and other work: Issue 3: ZGRASS Paint Program - Giloth (demo) Issue 5: Real Time Design ZGRASS Demo (reel to the Theme from Star Trek v1.0) Issue 8: Warpitout - Veeder (a document demonstrating and explaining the work) Issue 14: Wag the Flag - Kesler and Balch Issue 22: Calculated Movements - Cuba Issue 25: 4KTape - Veeder Issue 40: Interactive Image - Defanti et al (educational installations) There are probably more, but I can't find em right now. If you can find someone locally who has the tapes, you could at least look at em. To purchase the tapes you should look at the www.siggraph.org website under 'publications' (note that there are many items on each tape from many sources gleaned from that year, so it's not all Zgrass stuff by any means). ***** Joe Reitzer - April 14, 2001 Joe's email is more like a letter, so I have not included what I wrote to him (I did ask about a Vortex voice-synthesizer chip being inside the UV-1). Following is his reply: Adam, I used the UV-1 extensively from 1981 - 1990's. I own one and maybe a second in working condition. Almost full-blown. The basic system used a Z-80 processor, 1 graphics buffer, NTSC & RF Video output, mono audio out, RS-232 port, parallel port, 2 contact switches, dumb terminal. This was basic basic. Most people worked with this configuration, all of the above but also a 5.25 floppy drive (Micropolis 2 dual sided 400k), Summagraphics bit pad one, RGB monitor or Trinitron monitor. Some systems had the capability of a video digitizer (video input from a sync b/w video camera), and a 5 meg hardrive. OS ranged from different versions of ZGRASS. ZGRASS was blown into a chip and was hardware booted. The system took up 32k of memory. Available ram was 32k also but was different then the OS ram. 1 screen buffer could hold an image of 320x240 with a 4 color display, software capable of 8 colors, and I think the video digitizer faked 16??? A full screen save took up 16k of memory. A better system usually had 16 frame buffers instead of just 1. This meant you could cycle or address any buffer in any order. Thru programming you double buffer and write on 1 screen and display another. Very cool for realtime graphics. Another screen (buffer) option arrive in around 1986-1988(?), 64 screens. Audio output was a basic game chip used in Bally systems from around at that time. I believe it was capable of 3 Voices, 1 LFO, some other stuff. you programmed it like a regular analog synth of the time but without patchcords. No it did not come with the Vortex. I do though remember using a Vortex on a soundpiece "Love Electric". It was a standalone box that was programmed via RS-232. It was pretty cool. All in all it was a very cool box. There are somethings I remember it could do I miss and wish they were available in other systems. As I am sure you are aware the system was based on ZGRASS, a port of the GRASS programming language that Tom DeFanti wrote as his PHD thesis at Ohio State, Charle Csuri's first PHD student I believe. GRASS was the system that the first computer graphics used by the movie Star Wars (the training holographic projection for the trenchs on the Death Star programmed by Larry Cuba) it used a DEC PDP 11/45 or something like that. I worked with UV-1s at the School of the Art Institute and also UIC. I have had owned 1 since 1984 or 1985. Chicago was the hub of ZGRASS. Normally I do not respond like this to emails from unknown people but the "zbox" was a Cool machine and holds a special place in my digital memory. Joe Reitzer ***** Comments on this information These responses from people involved with the UV-1 really do speak for themselves. There is little to comment upon, but a will mention a few things. The UV-1 is more than what I expected. I thought it was basically an Astrocade with more RAM and the ZGRASS language. The three emails (Tom's in particular) clears up the mystery of this little-known computer, the UV-1. Though there were only about seven add-ons for the Astrocade, to learn that about three hundred UV-1's were made was surprising. I had always thought that it would be less than five, certainly no more than a dozen. The specification of the machine is about expected from previews of the Add-Under in the Arcadian, excluding extras like the hard drive, digitizer and some others. I need to follow-up on some of the references that Tom made to papers that he wrote (and videos to be seen). More information is will be gleaned from them. Joe's email is full of enthusiasm, for he was a die-hard user, having used the machine until the nineties. He still even has two machines. I am very pleased that Jane sent along two pictures. Make sure to take a look at them on the Astrocade message group, under the Files section (as a reminder the group's URL is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley). When you take a look at "Montana" and "WARPITOUT," you'll be able to reaffirm that an artist really makes hardware shine. This information on the UV-1 settles loose ends on the history and involvement of ZGRASS with the Astrocade, but it also opens some others up. There definitely is more on this topic to be discovered before I am satisfied, but Bally Alley's target is the Astrocade, and chasing all the spin-off's of the machine will quickly make the job of documenting the Astrocade heavy indeed. Rest assured, after the core of Bally Alley settles down (that is most scanning and uploading of PDF files is complete), I will look more into this machine. -- Adam Trionfo, April 18, 2001 From cybpunks@m... Thu Apr 19 22:04:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 05:04:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 16175 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 05:04:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 05:04:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls02.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.15) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 05:04:18 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3K54Fi11063 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 22:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010419220119.0268dc80@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 22:07:11 -0700 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: UV-1 In-Reply-To: <987669837.267.14465.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders >After one of em appearing in the SIGGRAPH 2000 History Exhibition, I finally threw away my two zboxes last summer after carting em around for twenty years as well as a couple of videogame cabinets, etc...boy that old stuff was heavy...I just had to move on...< This is exactly why this project is so important, and so timely. If Joe still has one of these, you've got to get some of this stuff archived. If we're planning to put together an expanded Astrocade like the UV-1, then we should reverse engineer it. Maybe then we'll be able to use ZGrass software on the new expansion device. The history of the Astrocade should not just be limited to the games that came out for it. It's clear that the offshoots of the Astrocade can be felt in Macromedia and other computer graphics. This is very obscure information that deserves to be documented. BTW, one guy you should try to get in touch with is Tom McHugh. He wrote Wizard of Wor. I couldn't find him when I was producing the Arcade Party Pak interviews, but if you are having good luck finding people, you should track him down. From solder_guy@m... Sun Apr 22 15:09:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 22 Apr 2001 22:09:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 62713 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2001 22:09:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2001 22:09:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail23.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.203) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Apr 2001 22:09:19 -0000 Received: œby mail23.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA10712; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 15:09:19 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 15:09:19 -0700 Message-Id: <200104222209.PAA10712@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.45.186] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Multi IC chip cart ! From: "solder_guy Last Name" Recently I bought 6 new Astrocade IC ROM chips .. Nothing rare here .. The games are: Wizard, Space Fortress, Panzer/RB, Star Battle, Galactic Invasion, and Seawolf. My original plan was to see if I could put one chip in the motherboard and have another built-in game. That did not work ... So this afternoon I took one cart (Star Battle) and clipped out the chip .. and replaced it with a 28 pin socket ... and successfully tested each of the chips ... Then I outlined what space I would need to cut away from the cart case bottom to have access to the IC socket. Then I hacked away that slender amount of plastic .. and now I have a socketed cart into which I can plug any of the Astrocade ICs. Very nice thing to have. Sure I could have gotten a PCB and cart casing from the guy who still has them .. but I have access to these ICs now and wanted to test them. So I'm thinking of buying more of the ICs from this same guy .. anybody want this setup? It could be a great thing to have until a multicart is available. And would other games be able to be burned into ROMs? Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From solder_guy@m... Sun Apr 22 15:18:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 22 Apr 2001 22:18:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 76543 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2001 22:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2001 22:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail23.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.203) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Apr 2001 22:18:55 -0000 Received: œby mail23.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA11591; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 15:18:55 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 15:18:55 -0700 Message-Id: <200104222218.PAA11591@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.45.186] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Multi IC chip cart ! From: "solder_guy Last Name" Oh .. One more thing: The Galactic Invasion chip says "Galactic Invasion" on the start-up menu .. I have not seen this before .. My other Galactic Invasion cart says "Galaxian" on the menu (as reported in the earlier FAQ.) Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Mon Apr 23 15:05:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 23 Apr 2001 22:05:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 68634 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 22:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2001 22:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.125) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 22:05:32 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:05:31 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Astrocade Add-under blueprints and others Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:06:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Apr 2001 22:05:31.0658 (UTC) FILETIME=[8371AEA0:01C0CC41] From: "Bally Alley" April, 23, 2001 I now have several Astrocade blueprints (some as large 3' x 4 1/2'-- the rest are not much smaller). Some of these are for hardware that was released, but the majority of them are for the Add-under. Some have some water damage, but are quite readable. Here is what I have: -- Video Keyboard Base -- Astrovision Add-Under -- Bally Monitor + Video Chroma board schematics (I need to figure out how to send this to James) -- Astro-Vision Add Under Keyboard Bezel -- Astro-vision Add Under Read-Shield -- Astrovision Add Under Cover -- Astro-vision Add-Under Rear Shield Insulator -- Astrovision Add Under Keyboard Base -- Astrovision Add-under Base -- Astro-vision Add-Under Front Shield Insulator -- Astro-vision Add-Under Front Shield Photocopies of blueprints -- Blue Ram schematics -- 64K board from R&L (From the board's manual) I am not sure what to do with these. I am going to call around this week and see if I can't get these copied somehow (perhaps even digitally). Each of these blueprints give exact dimensions and widths and are VERY detailed. If anyone has any ideas on how to copy these so that I can post them on Bally Alley, let me know. Adam Trionfo P.S. On the "rare cart" message from this morning. I was going to write something on that subject, but didn't have time (and have since decided not to). I deleted it from the message board. Just ignore it. From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Mon Apr 23 19:01:38 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20343 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 02:01:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2001 02:01:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hm.egroups.com) (10.1.10.45) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 02:01:37 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.127] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2001 02:01:34 -0000 Date: 24 Apr 2001 02:01:31 -0000 Message-ID: <988077691.4488.65724.qd@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /Balytech.htm Uploaded by : ward.shrake@w... Description : Technical info about Bally cartridges You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/Balytech.htm To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ward.shrake@w... From ward.shrake@w... Mon Apr 23 19:19:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 24 Apr 2001 02:19:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 17443 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 02:19:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 24 Apr 2001 02:19:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO b05.egroups.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 02:19:44 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.34] by b05.egroups.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2001 02:19:44 -0000 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 02:19:42 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: New file uploaded to ballyalley Message-ID: <9c2nru+9gm9@e...> In-Reply-To: <988077691.4488.65724.qd@yahoogroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2392 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.40.65 From: "Ward Shrake" Hi all. The file that I just uploaded discusses technical stuff related to the Bally Astrocade. I had it up on the net somewhere else I think, but since this group exists, this is a good place for it to be. It is old but the information in it should still apply well, due to the formerly slow pace of Bally archiving. Basically, it gives the pinouts of the cartridge slot in the Astrocade itself, as well as the pinout of the somewhat unusual ROM chips used in Bally-era machines. (The Commodore VIC-20 and C64 used them, as did some others, but since this is a Bally-only group, I'll just mention that in passing.) To answer one of Solder Guy's questions in a round-about way... there is no cheap, easily-accessible, direct pin-for-pin replacement chip that can be used with the normal, unmodified 24-pin PC boards found inside any of the Bally carts I've opened and inspected to date. (And since I've done lots of archiving, I think that's pretty much everything made by the company itself, although the rare third party stuff I've seen did use standard 28-pin chips on custom made boards. Due to the rarity of such carts, I don't suggest cutting those up!) In other words, unless you can find a special Motorola 68764 EPROM which matches Bally's 2364, you can't burn new ROMs and just insert them into an unmodified board. You have to either make entirely new boards that will fit standard / cheap / plentiful 2764 EPROMs, or cut- and-paste the existing traces to change the board to the new layout. (All these pinouts are included in the text I uploaded.) I know you won't want to hear this, but the last listing I found for a directly compatible chip -- Motorola's 68764 EPROM -- cost $18 per chip... for another $2 or so, you could buy a modern 32-pin chip that holds half a megabyte of storage space. Since that is the single most costly thing you'd have to buy, if you wanted to make a Bally multicart, I can't see it being cost effective to burn $18 ROM games? All this hassle comes about because Bally (and others) used a 24-pin masked ROM that could be special ordered from the chip-making factory at a cost savings, over the 28-pin chips that are more commonly used by EPROM-burning hobbyists. The four "missing" pins cut manufacturing costs back in the day, but make direct replacements a costly idea now. Ward "Don't kill the messenger" Shrake From cybpunks@m... Tue Apr 24 23:07:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 25 Apr 2001 06:07:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 39861 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 06:07:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2001 06:07:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls01.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.20) by mta1 with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 06:07:11 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3P672K25986 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010424225854.02714008@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:10:12 -0700 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Blueprints In-Reply-To: <988100298.442.82220.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders Depending on the level of detail on the blueprints you may be able to get them shrunk down. I had to do work similar to this with the TIA chip masks that Joe Decuir lent me which were huge. (BTW, I have to tell you that having those documents in my possession felt like having a priceless museum exhibit in my apartment). Anyway, I wound up going to a blueprint place that could do what's known as a CONTACT PRINT. This is like a really quick black and white photograph directly onto a large paper print. The detail on these is very good. I actually have a preliminary contact print of all the TIA chip mask layers lined up together (not perfectly, but still cool) framed and on my wall... If the blueprint has decent contrast then this should work okay. Even if it doesn't (as it was with many of the chip mask transparency layers--I actually had them do large-format photocopies to preboost the contrast before they photographed them) as long as it even barely registers you can fix it up in an image program like Paint Shop Pro or Photoshop after you scan it in. What you're really trying to do is get it small enough that you can feed it through a flatbed scanner while minimizing the need to do multiple scan passes (lining up those images is a pain, let me tell you). Even with the TIA stuff, after it was reduced you could still register the individual traces so I have to think that blueprints/schematics should reduce okay although the line thickness may be an issue. For instance, I could not get the TIA chip PLOT to reduce. The lines were too thin and too faint for the film to pick up. Anyway, your stuff sounds like wonderful material for the eventual CD... I am sure there is just a mountain of stuff out there just waiting for you to discover. Just make sure your contacts don't wind up trashing their stuff before you get around to archiving them! From ward.shrake@w... Thu Apr 26 23:29:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 27 Apr 2001 06:29:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 99132 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 06:29:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2001 06:29:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 06:29:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.23] by fj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2001 06:29:34 -0000 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 06:29:33 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Sneaking up on a Bally Astrocade multicart design Message-ID: <9cb3kd+psid@e...> In-Reply-To: <9bghlq+4i43@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2038 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.37.192 From: "Ward Shrake" Latest news on the multicart front... I'm plugging away at the design for this thing. I plan to etch my own PC boards, using an original design layout. I spent a bunch of hours working on the design, earlier today. It is still in the preliminary stages, but I think this existing design is workable? (I've put a bit of flexibility into the design; with a few jumpers and such, you can use the same basic board design for more than one type of chip. That doesn't do anyone any good unless they are assembling the board in its raw state, but it can't hurt to make the design more versatile?) I designed the PC board to fit inside a normal plastic Bally cart case, with minimal modifications. Dip switches to select games will be on the right hand side of the cart, looking at a cart when it's inserted. I left plenty of room for a nice looking, fancy label. At this point, the dip switches stick up a bit, out of the case, but that's probably a good thing, as it makes them easier to change? Anyway, things are happening. Next step is for me to finish off the design on paper, then to create photomasks, etch a board, and make a prototype. If it works -- there is always Murphy's Law, isnt' there -- I'll make another announcement then. I'm hoping this takes place in a few weeks if not sooner, but don't hold me to that too firmly. My plan at this point is to take whatever I have, and show it off at the upcoming SC3 meeting (Southern California Classic Collectors). Note that I'm not saying anything about selling these yet. I may or may not do that. I have not 100% decided what I'll do along those lines. Questions about "how much is it" won't do either of us any good, so please don't ask. I'm having fun doing this as a "just for fun" project, and fun keeps me working on it, so that's a good thing. Adam Trionfo asked me to update that text file I posted recently. I will, once other things are out of the way. I don't plan to hog any of the info I'm digging up, or discovering through experimentation. From ballyalley@h... Fri Apr 27 11:57:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 27 Apr 2001 18:57:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 92755 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 18:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2001 18:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.93) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 18:57:36 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:57:35 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Astrocade Multicart with BASIC Games Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:58:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2001 18:57:35.0773 (UTC) FILETIME=[EC252CD0:01C0CF4B] From: "Bally Alley" On Including BASIC Games, Demos and Programs on an Astrocade Multicart By Adam Trionfo Although a multicart is not yet available for the Astrocade, one will eventually arrive. As with multicarts for other systems, an Astrocade multicart should include hard to find games, demos, unreleased programs, etc. But the Astrocade has always been a little different program-wise, having a BASIC cartridge that has an assortment of programs written that are quite good, and always were reasonably assessable to create and distribute during the Astrocade's lifetime. Since far more BASIC programs were created than cartridges, a multicart for the Astrocade should include some of these. I have long imagined that these BASIC programs would be perfect to run from cartridge, and now that Michael White is shedding light into this area, it seems possible that BASIC programs may at some point be available for use on a multicart, or at least made available for emulation. People have always voiced that BASIC is slow. I have not yet personally seen an action game written in AstroBASIC that is as smooth as any of the carts, yet there are BASIC games that don't require fast graphic effects (and these work well, as in Simon). As with programs on any system, there is a large array of BASIC games, ranging from the poor to the excellent. Though the range of BASIC games vary in quality, the general spread is large enough that it would be difficult not to find several programs that a multicart will benefit from. Not all inclusions should be a game either. While I doubt most users would have much interest in using an Astrocade application program (Payroll, for example), several of the graphic demos are worth including on a multicart. Some of the BASIC graphical tricks and demos that might be included on a multicart may be more interesting to look at, but no other so well summarizes the whole world of AstroBASIC programming than the "Arcadian's" symbol of a rocket amid a field of twinkling stars. Compared with other consoles, the Astrocade had only a trickle of officially released cartridges, so it was the BASIC community that fed hungry users of the machine with more of what they wanted: games. A multicart that does not include BASIC programs would be overlooking much of the Astrocade's history and therefore could never give a complete or accurate picture of what Astrocade fans used during the peak of the machine's acceptance. A multicart of any sort will be welcomed with open arms, but it is important that the feeling that this machine created for early adapters is not lost. Let's make sure that the homebrew side of the Astrocade does not become an oversight; it is this aspect of the machine that really sustained users, and to see it lost would be a tragedy. -- April 27, 2001 From ward.shrake@w... Sat Apr 28 09:54:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 28 Apr 2001 16:54:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 28331 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 16:54:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 28 Apr 2001 16:54:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c3.egroups.com) (10.1.10.50) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 16:54:17 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.63] by c3.egroups.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2001 16:54:17 -0000 Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:54:12 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Sources of info for general info on multicarts Message-ID: <9cesjk+7igg@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3032 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.81.32.20 From: "Ward Shrake" I am getting a number of questions about general multicart theory and how to apply it to things like the Atari game systems. I don't mind trying to be helpful, but there's no sense re-inventing the wheel. So, here are some web sites I am aware of, that already distribute info along those lines. http://members.home.com/rcolbert1/ http://members.home.com/rcolbert1/multi.htm That's Bob Colbert's home page and detailed instructions on modifying an existing Atari 2600 cart, so that it becomes a 64k cart, with dip switches for game selection. He includes diagrams of the required re- wiring, etc. Bob's site also includes a detailed start-to-finish walk- through on how he made a limited edition Atari cartridge, using common carts as a starting point, and inserting his homemade EPROM and a new label. http://www.netway.com/~hozervideo/index.html Randy Crihfield's web site, with some short-and-sweet instructions on modifying a common Atari 2600 cart to make (almost) any other game. He sells many such carts, and includes schematics with his sales. He also will put user-written games into cartridge form for new game authors who want such a service. See his site for more details. http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/mar97/basics.html This is a web site done by a Robotics club/group from Seattle. They have good explanations of basic circuits. The link above explains the theory of "pull-up resistors," which are necessary for multicarts if you are going to use dip switches for game selection. Most people do, because the only other possibility is to learn how to program the machine itself, at its most complex level, not only to create user interfaces onscreeen, but to control external hardware such as bank- switching carts that are far larger than the machine was ever designed to handle. Almost every user-made multicart uses switches. http://www.emuhq.com/random64/doc1/Joy2600-PC_eng.html Somewhat off-topic, as multicarts go, but on-topic as far as Atari games go. This is a page that describes how to hook a 2600 joystick up to an IBM, so that you can play emulated games with a real stick. http://buerger.metropolis.de/estolberg/ http://members.aol.com/~Atari7800games/emulation.htm/ http://www.tripoint.org/kevtris/ http://users.erols.com/tiltonj/index.html If you diehard Bally guys haven't gotten tired of Atari-related info, check out Eckhard Stolberg's VCS workshop, or Mitch Orman's 7800 emulation site. Kevin Horton's "Blue Tech" web site may interest you, as will Jay Tilton's "Deathskull Labs" page. http://www.mameworld.net/pc2jamma/ This last site is off-topic even for Atari stuff... but if you can't stand to be away from the smell of soldering fumes very long, you'll definitely want to bookmark it. It explains how to install an IBM computer and/or modern game consoles up inside an arcade cabinet. I love their user interface, to switch between games. A great site! And if all that doesn't keep you guys busy awhile, seek medicine. ;-) Ward Shrake From solder_guy@m... Sun Apr 29 08:39:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 29 Apr 2001 15:39:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 89356 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 15:38:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2001 15:38:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail18.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.49) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 15:38:54 -0000 Received: œby mail18.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA14490; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:38:54 -0700 Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:38:54 -0700 Message-Id: <200104291538.IAA14490@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.38.57] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Bally Astrocade power repair writeup From: "solder_guy Last Name" >From William Culver: Bally Astrocade Repair Procedures #1 - Astrocade unit displays screen for 1 second then turns black or does not power up at all. Typically whenever a Astrocade does not power up, more than likely there is a problem in the power circuit on the Motherboard (Refer to the Bally Repair Manual at www.ballyalley.com). One of the first repairs I will discuss that I have done to many Astrocades concerns the capacitors that buffer the RAM (U24 thru U31 - MK4096N-15RAM) in the Astrocade. If any of the capacitors (C65 thru C106 - .1MFD 50V) short, then damage to the Q1 (TIP31) Transistor and the VR3 (UA78GUIC-5V) will occur. Also note that if you use the astrocade on a carpet, it is typically the Q1 transistor that shorts out as well (I have modified astrocades to have a small CPU fan installed to help cooling). Typically when the Q1 transistor shorts out, you will find R2 (240ohm 1/2 watt) resistor burnt on the motherboard. By using the wiring diagrams, trace the voltage through the circuit until you find the offending component. Check each capacitor for a short (C65 thru C106). When I approach a problem like this, I unsolder each Capacitor first, then replace the Q1, R2 and VR3 and power the unit up. Typically if a capacitor is shorted and it is removed, the astrocade will power up (but do not leave it on long, just do this for a check). Connect each Capacitor one at a time by using a small jumper wire until the astrocade does not power up, this will be the offending capacitor to replace (do not leave the astrocade on very long when doing this!, just breifly turn it on with you multimeter on the +5v rail, If your multimeter does not indicate +5v when you hit the power switch, turn off the astrocade immediatly). NTE part numbers for components mentioned. (www.nteinc.com) VR3 - NTE 953 Q1 - NTE 196 William J. Culver ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Thu May 03 13:41:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 3 May 2001 20:41:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 48201 invoked from network); 3 May 2001 20:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 May 2001 20:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.118) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 May 2001 20:41:17 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 3 May 2001 13:41:17 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Astrocade Blueprint Proposal Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 13:42:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 May 2001 20:41:17.0748 (UTC) FILETIME=[6735B740:01C0D411] From: "Bally Alley" Astrocade Blueprint Proposal By Adam Trionfo This message is in reference to my April 23, 2001 posting called, "Astrocade Add-under blueprints and others." If you recall, I have obtained a number of fragile blueprints. The blueprints available are: -- Video Keyboard Base -- Astrovision Add-Under -- Bally Monitor + Video Chroma board schematics (I need to figure out how to send this to James) -- Astro-Vision Add Under Keyboard Bezel -- Astro-vision Add Under Read-Shield -- Astrovision Add Under Cover -- Astro-vision Add-Under Rear Shield Insulator -- Astrovision Add Under Keyboard Base -- Astrovision Add-under Base -- Astro-vision Add-Under Front Shield Insulator -- Astro-vision Add-Under Front Shield I can't these in because they are MUCH too big (with some of the largest being almost fifteen square feet). I called several "blueprint places" today to see what copying them will cost. It costs about the same to have them saved to TIFF as to have them copied onto bond paper. I am told that the level of detail is good as long as the original blueprint is readable. The actual cost for a copy to bond paper is ABOUT one dollar a square foot (not all places charge by the square foot). The price to have them saved as TIFF files is about $20 a blueprint. A quick estimate here means that to have each blueprint copied onto bond paper, plus one TIFF file made of each of the twelve blueprints would be about $360. This is an "over-estimate." I am figuring each blueprint is about fifteen square feet (none are quite that big), and I am also figuring that each "TIFF" is will cost twenty dollars. I might be over-estimating by as much as $60 or even $80. Regardless, the final result of $360 is not pocket change. I am not surprised to see these price quotes. By the way, I would have to bring these blueprints to two different places. Even though both places offer the same services, they each have wildly different prices for each service. I can't afford to get this copying done alone. My Proposal: I propose that several of us Astrocade users gather our funds together and make this happen. If we decide to just get the TIFF copies done now (a very logical choice), then that would cost about $180 (before taxes), probably less. What would you get in exchange for this? I need to make it clear that you would NOT get a blueprint hardcopy (only a file image is being created), but the blueprints would be safe from further damage and decay. And if you send a few zip disks, then each person who pays will get a copy of the image files. I can't possibly post images of this large size to the Bally Alley web site (but since the images will be black and white, SOME form of small JPG or GIF will be uploaded-- I hope). I would be willing to split the costs, evenly, with at LEAST two other people. I have no exact figure ($180 is my "over-estimate, remember), but it would boil down to this: 3 people - $60 each 4 people - $45 each Adding more contributors after four people gives diminishing returns, $36, $30, etc (though, everything helps). Let me know soon if you are interested in this proposal. I need to still find who owns the rights to Astrocade hardware, but the tentative goal is to make these blueprint image files available on the future Astrocade CD. This is the best strategy that I can come up with, but I am open to further suggestions. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Thu May 10 11:09:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 10 May 2001 18:09:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 16032 invoked from network); 10 May 2001 18:08:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 May 2001 18:08:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.98) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 May 2001 18:08:47 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 10 May 2001 11:08:47 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Two Astrocade carts now PD! Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:10:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2001 18:08:47.0595 (UTC) FILETIME=[422F6BB0:01C0D97C] From: "Bally Alley" Two Astrocade Cartridges Released to Public Domain By Adam Trionfo Many of the classic systems have ROM images on the Internet; the Astrocade is no exception. Most ROM sites have disclaimers, such as (paraphrasing here) "Erase after 24 hours," "Don't download this if you don't own the original cartridge," or, "As long as you don't get new carts, it's okay." Many people refer to these ROM images as a "sketchy 'gray'" area. Regardless of these "it's okay" claims about ROMs, the future Astrocade CD-ROM will only include ROM images that are freely distributable, public domain, or images that I have permission to include on the CD-ROM. It will not be otherwise. In this direction, I have been tracking down and making contact with people that can help me in this endeavor. The labor has finally proved fruitful. I contacted Brett Bilbrey, who wrote two third party games called "ICBM Attack" and "Treasure Cove" (as well as being involved in other ways with the Astrocade). I exchanged a few emails with Brett, and asked where the rights to the cartridges stand. These exchanges with Brett were NOT conducted in an interview-type manner, but I present them this way (it makes reading them easier). The email has also been abbreviated to include only discussion concerning the two cartridges. ADAM - You programmed the cartridges "ICBM Attack" and "Treasure Cove." How much time/money did you invest in these projects? Do you have commented source for these? How many were sold? BRETT - I had some friends that I worked with to make the games. Mike Toth and Marion Nelepa. (Marion 'may' still have an [ICBM] controller, and 'may' still have the TRS-80 development system we used to write cartridges with...) ICBM ATTACK was an experiment to see if I 'could' create a cartridge. A test if you will. I did it in a few months during my free time in college so it did not take much money. Treasure Cove took a bit more work... I remember not leaving Marion's house for days at a time... :-) Marion programmed the sounds for the games. Mike was the manager and took care of business issues. The bulk of the cost was having the cartridge cases and the PC boards made and getting EEPROMs. I 'think' I have a paper source to the games somewhere packed away. But I'm not sure where, or if I even still have it... Marion 'may' have some source code somewhere if he still has the TRS-80... As to how many were sold? Just a few. Not many of ICBM ATTACK (because we made each handle by hand... sigh) and a few hundred (?) of the Treasure Cove. Mike and Marion were more interested in selling them and would know better, I just wanted to write games... :-) ADAM - Where do the rights stand with your two cartridges? Do you own the rights to them? Would you be willing to donate them into the public domain or make them freely distribuable (for emulator use or to be burned onto EPPROM for use on an actual Astrocade.)? BRETT - Rights? Hmmm... I suppose they still exist with Spectre Systems, the company that my friends and I formed. In that sense, we still own them. I would be willing to donate them, but I will have to ask Mike and Marion if they have any objections... [in the next email Brett adds] Sure... Mike and Marion did not have a problem with letting the cartridges go into the public domain. Have Fun. In summary, "ICBM Attack" and "Treasure Cove" are now public domain. This is exciting news. I will continue making contact with people that were involved with the Astrocade. Over time I hope that more cartridges will be released into the public domain for archival purposes, and (of course) for those using the Astrocade today. I especially want to thank Brett, Marion and Mike (Spectre Systems) for releasing these two cartridges into the public domain. Yes, we'll "have fun." -- May 10, 2001 From solder_guy@m... Thu May 10 19:05:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 11 May 2001 02:05:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 85694 invoked from network); 11 May 2001 02:04:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 May 2001 02:04:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail12.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.43) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 May 2001 02:04:50 -0000 Received: œby mail12.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA21448; Thu, 10 May 2001 19:04:50 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 19:04:50 -0700 Message-Id: <200105110204.TAA21448@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.43.37] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Two Astrocade carts now PD! From: "solder_guy Last Name" Adam: Would you ask Brett about the special controller required to make ICBM attack work properly. Description .. wiring setup .. etc. Whatever he remembers ..... Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Sun May 13 22:13:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 14 May 2001 05:13:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 90409 invoked from network); 14 May 2001 05:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 May 2001 05:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.16) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 May 2001 05:13:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 13 May 2001 22:13:29 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Six more ARCADIAN newsletters uploaded to Bally Alley + more Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 22:15:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 May 2001 05:13:29.0818 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D14F3A0:01C0DC34] From: "Bally Alley" May 13, 2001 Six issues of the ARCADIAN, and three cartridge manuals, two docs and schematics have been added to Bally Alley. http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/Whats_New.html A complete list follows: ARCADIAN, Vol. 6, Issue 7 - 8 Pages ARCADIAN, Vol. 6, Issue 8 - 10 Pages ARCADIAN, Vol. 6, Issue 9 - 10 Pages ARCADIAN, Vol. 6, Issue 10 - 10 Pages ARCADIAN, Vol. 6, Issue 11/12 - 30 Pages Biorhythm manual (text) Conan The Barbarian (text) - unofficial Soccer/Shoot Out (text) - unofficial Astrocade Product Description R&L 64K RAM board Blue RAM schematics There is always more to come, so keep an eye out for new postings. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Mon May 14 18:20:04 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31655 invoked from network); 15 May 2001 01:19:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 May 2001 01:19:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 May 2001 01:19:30 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.11] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2001 01:19:29 -0000 Date: 15 May 2001 01:19:29 -0000 Message-ID: <989889569.535.78826.n4@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /Astrocade_MESS_keyboard-1.1.txt Uploaded by : ballyalley@h... Description : Astrocade MESS Emulation Keyboard Mapping FAQ You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/Astrocade_MESS_keyboard-1.1.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ballyalley@h... From ballyalley@h... Mon May 14 18:23:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 May 2001 01:23:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 74029 invoked from network); 15 May 2001 01:22:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 May 2001 01:22:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.205) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 May 2001 01:22:55 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 May 2001 18:22:54 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Finished Astrocade MESS Emulation Keyboard Mapping FAQ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 18:24:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 May 2001 01:22:54.0918 (UTC) FILETIME=[91407E60:01C0DCDD] From: "Bally Alley" May 14, 2001 I have have been using the latest version of the MESS Astrocade emulator. There are no docs, so I have put together one for use with the keyboard-mapping. It is called, "Astrocade MESS Emulation Keyboard Mapping FAQ" and I placed in the the file area of the Astrocade Message board. Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Mon May 14 18:25:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 May 2001 01:25:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 12591 invoked from network); 15 May 2001 01:24:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 May 2001 01:24:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.16) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 May 2001 01:24:58 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 May 2001 18:24:58 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: New version of the MESS Astrocade emulator works well Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 18:26:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 May 2001 01:24:58.0310 (UTC) FILETIME=[DACC9E60:01C0DCDD] From: "Bally Alley" May 14, 2001 I have been using the newest beta of the MESS emulator (0.37b13), and as Frank Palazzolo promised, the screen ratio is fixed. It looks nice now. Try it. Adam Trionfo From mcgrail0007@n... Mon May 14 19:13:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mcgrail0007@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 May 2001 02:13:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 88527 invoked from network); 15 May 2001 02:12:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 May 2001 02:12:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 May 2001 02:12:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mcgrail0007@n... Received: from [10.1.10.117] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2001 02:12:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 02:12:38 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Sources of info for general info on multicarts Message-ID: <9dq3am+pdgs@e...> In-Reply-To: <9cesjk+7igg@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1771 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 32.102.128.86 From: mcgrail0007@n... Ward, I wanted to know how the multicart is coming along. Do you plan on selling these? The reason I ask is because I received an email today from Sean Kelly saying that he is considering making a multicart for the Astrocade. For those who don't know who Sean is, he has made multicarts with the complete library of Colecovision, Vectrex, and Atari 5200 (less Bounty Bob Strikes Back) games. His multicarts are always professionally made and if he made a multicart for the Astrocade I am sure that every user of the Astrocade would want to pick one up. His Colecovision multicart allows for on screen selection of the games (so you don't have to mess with dip switches), and his new 5200 multicart will also allow for on screen selection. I also wanted to let you know that I spoke to Michael White last weekend and he said that he has made multicarts in the past with 8 and 16 games on them for the Astrocade. He said that he still can make games for the Astrocade, but has a very limited supply of Music Maker and once those are gone they are gone forever. I have placed an order with him and he is suppose to send me flyers with game prices to send to other Astrocade users. Once I get the flyers I will be happy to send them out to other Astrocade users. Please email me at mcgrail0007@n... with your name and address if you want one of these flyers. If I get too many request I might send the information in an email. He is working 10 hours a day so right now he says that his time is very limited to make Astrocade games. He is hoping to have my order done by the end of this month meaning that I won't be able to get the flyers out to Astrocade users until early to mid June at the earliest. Sean McGrail From solder_guy@m... Tue May 15 01:34:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 May 2001 08:34:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 52256 invoked from network); 15 May 2001 08:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 May 2001 08:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail17.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.48) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 May 2001 08:34:10 -0000 Received: œby mail17.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA31051; Tue, 15 May 2001 01:34:10 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 01:34:10 -0700 Message-Id: <200105150834.BAA31051@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.39.227] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ballyalley] New version of the MESS Astrocade emulator works well From: "solder_guy Last Name" Hi .. Does anyone know of a replacement for the AC adapter for teh Bally/ Astrocade? Someone (on RGVC) has requested info about replacement. This is an issue as the console gets older ... Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ward.shrake@w... Tue May 15 11:30:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 May 2001 18:30:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 54952 invoked from network); 15 May 2001 18:30:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 May 2001 18:30:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 May 2001 18:30:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.106] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2001 18:30:07 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 18:30:04 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Sources of info for general info on multicarts Message-ID: <9drsjc+q16f@e...> In-Reply-To: <9dq3am+pdgs@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5656 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.73.56.33 From: "Ward Shrake" In regards to how long it is going to take, for me to make multicarts... "I honestly don't know". And I've learned over the years not to bow to pressure on that type of question, and try to give a specific date. When it is done, it will be done. Not before. It all depends on things I can't predict, like how much free time I get to play with it. (I work in the movie industry now, and never know when I'll have work or a day off.) And if I'm in the mood, too; please remember that this is just a hobby! The Astrocade is slowly arising from its slumber of many years. Give it time to wake up again. One thing to remember is that it is silly to be pushing hard for a "complete collection" multicart, when we don't even have all the ROMs yet? "Patience, Luke" is good advice regarding projects like this. The ROM archiving effort isn't even completed yet, although good progress has definitely been made. If people want to speed up the multicart, start helping locate the ROMs we need to archive, and be willing to loan those carts out to people who can archive them!? How far along am I? The Emerson 2001 multicart is already prototyped, tested inhouse, and has been tested by others. It works fine. I am going to add some refinements to that one, since it is already 90% built anyway. When that's done, I'll be that much ahead on the Bally. (It is only an 8-in-1 now, but with a few changes, can hold 512k.) As to the Bally multicart itself, I've already drawn out a double- sided circuit board diagram of a cart with a 512k memory space, and a row of 8 dipswitches. I may clean the drawing up and make a prototype soon, just because? My overall plan is to have something in my hands, working, when I go to the next "SC3" gaming meet, sometime in June. Am I going to sell these things? I don't know. Maybe, or maybe not. That's tricky. A trade would probably go over better in the long run. Don't box yourself into that one path (cash sales) as the only path. I really do respect the efforts of others, and don't want to be mean or rude to them. By this I mean either the original authors, or the efforts of people like Adam Trionfo. He is working hard towards being legally allowed to distribute things like individual ROM images. He has been successful, and I don't want to jeopardize his efforts! I'll just take the time now to thank him, and also to congratulate him, publicly. I've done this with some VIC-20 carts, and it is not easy. But it has a snowball effect; once a few authors have given their permission, it gets easier to get the next person to also give his or her permission, when you locate them and start pleading. Let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment: What would you actually pay for a professional looking "complete collection" type multicart? One that uses dip switches, and that has an artistic custom label? And how many of you would actually come up with cash, right away, and not just wish or talk about it? How many of you even own a working Bally Astrocade, because that alone will limit the market for sales? (I'm just curious, as I'm doing this for fun, and not for profit. But anyone that considers making and selling these has to know that info.) In regards to questions regarding my attitude towards other people making multicarts... "The more the merrier. More power to everyone." Sean Kelly is definitely a cool guy. I've never met him in person, but we've spoken by e-mail on a number of occasions over the years. I even bought one of his Vectrex multicarts, some months ago. He has willingly shared info and such with me, on more than one occasion. I have no problems with Sean, and I seriously doubt he has any with me. I've also spoken to Michael White on the phone a few weeks ago, and found him to be a friendly guy as well. He has raw, original parts from the Bally's era, that he modifies into 8 or 16-in-1 multicarts, as mentioned. (Just replaces the 2364 chips with a 27256 or 27512.) I compared ROM lists with him; he has quite a few that I don't have, and I had one he didn't. I've already mailed out the one he needed, in burnt ROM format -- since he doesn't have a modern computer or an Internet connection, and relies on snail mail. I will get ahold of the others he has as time goes on, by borrowing Adam's copies, most likely. (He wants the copies for his personal collection, anyway.) In short, I doubt that any of us see the others as a competitor? I certainly don't, and I've seen no evidence that Sean or Michael does. Also, for what it is worth, I sent Joe Santulli my original Bally ROM dumping adapter, and also my original Emerson Arcadia ROM dumping adapter cable. It was originally going to be a long-term loan, but I have since decided to just let him keep both, and I made myself new ones. This ups the chances of new ROMs being dumped. (But both of the collections are getting to the point of being mostly archived, now.) Sean's multicarts have one flaw that I'm working on getting around; that is, they take up far too much memory space, because he hasn't come up with a way to work out the addressing schemes when there are more than one size of cart image mixed into the storage space. Right now, he just "brute force's" it by making all cart images the same size as the largest ones, so that each 4k game takes up 16k of space, if the two sizes are mixed together. Obviously, that's wasteful. (He readily admits this is the case; I'm not talking trash about him.) Enough out of me... time to go play with my soldering iron. :-) Ward Shrake http://classicgaming/vic20/ http://classicgaming/arcadia/ From ward.shrake@w... Wed May 16 01:55:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 16 May 2001 08:55:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 44704 invoked from network); 16 May 2001 08:55:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 May 2001 08:55:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 May 2001 08:55:30 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.99] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2001 08:55:29 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 08:55:29 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: New file uploaded to ballyalley Message-ID: <9dtfa1+isr4@e...> In-Reply-To: <9c2nru+9gm9@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1132 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.73.51.100 From: "Ward Shrake" Just letting everyone know that I did a slight update on that tech document I posted, some time ago. It is now more printer-friendly, or something? I'm slowly switching it over from ASCII text to HTML, etc. The single biggest change is that the cartridge port pinout now looks just like the real thing; it is now much easier to visualize it. In time, I may add more to it, making it a general techie / project text. One thing I'll add to my comments from this morning... trust me when I say that lots of cool stuff is being talked about, sort of behind the curtains as it were. Just because there aren't announcements, does not mean there is no activity going on. In many cases, it is simpler and much more direct for those involved to just finish up the things they are working on, than to give blow-by-blow updates on it. I will just say that I myself am surprised at the amount and depth of activity that is going on, or seems to be in the planning stages now! (Adam's recent success in getting two carts to be "public domain" is a wonderful thing in itself, I think? My projects pale in comparison!) Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Thu May 17 22:28:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 18 May 2001 05:28:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 81553 invoked from network); 18 May 2001 05:28:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 May 2001 05:28:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mk.egroups.com) (10.1.1.30) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 May 2001 05:28:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.105] by mk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2001 05:28:04 -0000 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 05:28:03 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Check file section -- some techie stuff just added Message-ID: <9e2bt3+gk4c@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1045 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.73.49.245 From: "Ward Shrake" Howdy, all. I just uploaded three technical texts. One was here before; I'd deleted the text version of the cartridge port stuff when I began an HTML version, instead. Adam talked me into leaving the old one, as it is more easily read by non-web-browsing folks. Anyway, that one's back again now. The second file is something I originally wrote back in 1994, which I basically trashed completely, and re-wrote. It is about how to fix all the pesky little pins on IC chips, which tend to bend or break over time, with a little help from those of us with soldering irons. The third file was also an older one, which I've had on my hard drive for years. Raymond Carlsen originally wrote it, and posted it to one of the Usenet newsgroups... "comp.sys.cbm" most likely. Although it seems to be about the Commodore line of computers, look deeper. The Astrocade has its share of heat-related ills, and Ray's text gives lots of good, transportable tips on keeping old computer equipment healthy and happy, over the long run. Ward Shrake From ballyalley@h... Fri May 18 06:38:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 18 May 2001 13:38:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 15447 invoked from network); 18 May 2001 13:38:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 May 2001 13:38:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.211) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 May 2001 13:38:50 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 May 2001 23:31:39 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: On Astrocade Projects: Are We Encouraging or Pestering? Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 23:33:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 May 2001 06:31:39.0506 (UTC) FILETIME=[B2C44D20:01C0DD08] From: "Bally Alley" On Astrocade Projects: Are We Encouraging or Pestering? By Adam Trionfo (May 14, 2001) - Reading past and current posting to this message board reveals progress on Astrocade projects, particularly multicarts, the Astrocade CD-ROM, and the adding of material to Bally Alley. Through the postings, we get an excellent impression of where a project is headed. For example, Ward (working on multicarts) has requested us NOT to ask if he will be selling his multicart. He is not done with it, and is not yet sure what he will be doing with it when he is. He politely asked us to refrain from asking much about it (ie. if it is or is not for sale) because he just doesn't know. We should not worry, for Ward is keeping us updated on his progress, and there is no sudden need to have anything finished NOW-- right away. Asking "is it done yet," or "can I buy one yet" is not going to contribute to his project completing any sooner. Game players may disagree that a game system is dead when there is no new development for it, but loss of interest happens quickly with a machine like the Astrocade that has been living in a sterile environment for so long; it has little interest to newcomers. There is no excitement or anticipation about the next new thing, no wonder about waiting for a new product. It is with development that people become interested in these game consoles. We all have good reason to look forward to an Astrocade multicart, for it undoubtedly will allow those with limited collections to fill in the cartridge gaps. But there is more to it than that. Attention from a multicart or Astrocade CD-ROM will draw people who are interested in using the machine. This interest to play the games will be followed with some people having a deeper interest; they will want to know the hardware, to understand what makes the Astrocade tick. With the recent available documentation that has been appearing on Bally Alley and communication with this message board (and postal mail, email and phone calls), interest in both software and hardware has been multiplying. This increasing fascination with the Astrocade will continue to expand. Individuals with interest in the Astrocade are sharing ideas. Gossip of the multicart is sure to attract more people. Interest in anything Astrocade related here is EXCELLENT. That is what this message board is for, after all. Let us be careful though. We can not allow this excitement to sidetrack us, or even derail projects. We all have an interest in the Astrocade (more specifically, with most of us, the games); we need to do what we can to make sure that our interest is fed well in the LONG run. None of us have any doubt that an Astrocade multicart will appear from someone at some time; we all want that to happen-- and it will. I look forward to it, but now is not the time to rush. A hasty attitude and short-term sight will deaden long-term goals. Pressuring either Ward Shrake or Sean Kelly (or anyone else for that matter) is not the way to establish quality. Let us encourage people creating Astrocade hardware or software projects, not pester them; then the final product will be the result of creation, and not frustration. Good luck to Ward and Sean (and the rest of you; you know who you are). From ballyalley@h... Sat May 26 18:00:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 27 May 2001 01:00:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 36364 invoked from network); 27 May 2001 01:00:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 May 2001 01:00:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.15) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 May 2001 01:00:07 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 26 May 2001 18:00:06 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: 300-baud cassette interface needed for Astrocade CD Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 18:02:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 May 2001 01:00:06.0749 (UTC) FILETIME=[5EB778D0:01C0E648] From: "Bally Alley" 300-baud Interface needed for Bally Alley ----------------------------------------- To use the Astrocade 300-baud tapes, the 300-baud interface is needed. The interface is not needed yet for the Astrocade CD, but it will be needed in the future. A working unit needs to be handy when the time comes to use it. I have been on the lookout for this interface for a long time, but I can't seem to find one. Since the 2000-baud version included on the AstroBASIC cartridge is much faster than the 300-baud version, in most collections this 300-baud interface is little more than an Astrocade prop. Why not allow it to be given an important second life and future use? Without this interface these older Astrocade programs will never even have an opportunity to make their way to Bally Alley or the Audio/CD-ROM compilation. I can't promise that any commercial Astrocade tapes will be on the CD or the website, but without the ability to get them there in the first place, then it will be completely impossible. If anyone can help me get my hands around one of these Bally 300-baud interfaces, please let me know. If there is someone here that is willing to part with one, then please contact me. I'm sure we can make an arrangement that will be mutually beneficial. Thanks, Adam Trionfo From cybpunks@m... Wed May 30 08:32:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 30 May 2001 15:32:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 32673 invoked from network); 30 May 2001 15:32:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 May 2001 15:32:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls01.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.20) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 May 2001 15:32:09 -0000 Received: from ATHLON.mediaone.net (we-24-165-162-215.we.mediaone.net [24.165.162.215]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4UFW7k12377 for ; Wed, 30 May 2001 08:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20010530083322.02bad1a8@p...> X-Sender: cybpunks@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 08:35:50 -0700 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: 300 baud interface In-Reply-To: <990963271.306.82391.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Glenn Saunders At 11:34 AM 5/27/2001 +0000, you wrote: >300-baud Interface needed for Bally Alley I'm sure some collectors may have one. They are pretty rare I'm sure. How valuable I don't know, probably not much because of the lack of collectibility (comparitively speaking) in the Astrocade market, but I'm sure they are out there. Keep an eye out on Ebay. From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Wed May 30 15:25:12 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14535 invoked from network); 30 May 2001 22:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 May 2001 22:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 May 2001 22:25:09 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.11] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2001 22:25:06 -0000 Date: 30 May 2001 22:25:06 -0000 Message-ID: <991261506.1417.84785.n4@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /300_Baud_Interface.jpg Uploaded by : ballyalley@h... Description : Bally Astrocade 300 baud cassette interface You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/300_Baud_Interface.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ballyalley@h... From ballyalley@h... Wed May 30 16:01:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 30 May 2001 23:01:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 34925 invoked from network); 30 May 2001 23:01:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 May 2001 23:01:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.207) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 May 2001 23:01:00 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 30 May 2001 16:00:59 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: 300 baud interface release in question? Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 16:03:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 May 2001 23:00:59.0954 (UTC) FILETIME=[648C1920:01C0E95C] From: "Bally Alley" May 30, 2001 I posted a message looking for a Bally 300 baud cassette interface and I have been asked if it really exists. I was quite surprised by this question. Was it released? It was. The original version of Bally BASIC did not come with a built-in interface. The cartridge cost about fifty dollars, and the interface (300 baud, not 2000 baud) cost another fifty dollars. Without it, there was no way to save or load a program. The interface plugs into a joystick port and the light pen port on the back of an Astrocade. There is a small B&W picture of the interface inside each Bally BASIC manual on page 130. Since most people don't have this manual, I have uploaded a picture of the interface into the file area of the message board. It is a color picture from a very recently ended Astrocade auction on ebay. It was just one of the many items that was part of an Astrocade package. I know these interfaces are out there, and not too uncommon either. They can't be. A BASIC user before 1981 on an Astrocade had to own this interface, otherwise there was little use in the BASIC cartirdge at all. Adam Trionfo From guygg@3... Wed May 30 18:15:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: guygg@3... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 31 May 2001 01:15:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 12157 invoked from network); 31 May 2001 01:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 May 2001 01:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO maynard.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.243) by mta3 with SMTP; 31 May 2001 01:15:07 -0000 Received: from guy (user-33qtcl1.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.178.161]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA11399 for ; Wed, 30 May 2001 21:15:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3cc201c0e978$95d167d0$0201a8c0@3...> To: References: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] 300 baud interface release in question? Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 20:22:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_3CBF_01C0E946.4A77ED90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2465.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2465.0000 From: "Guy G. Gordon" ------=_NextPart_000_3CBF_01C0E946.4A77ED90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've got one of the 300 baud interfaces, that yes, plugs into the joystick = port. I'd like to hang on to the unit long term, but if it is needed out t= here to do conversions of stuff, it'd be possible to loan it for doing conv= ersions if no other units out there end up obtainable. I think the unit st= ill works right, but need to test it to make sure. Guy Gordon guygg@3... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bally Alley=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:03 PM Subject: [ballyalley] 300 baud interface release in question? May 30, 2001 I posted a message looking for a Bally 300 baud cassette interface and I have been asked if it really exists. I was quite surprised by this question. Was it released? It was. The original version of Bally BASIC did not come with a built-in interfac= e. The cartridge cost about fifty dollars, and the interface (300 baud, not 2000 baud) cost another fifty dollars. Without it, there was no way to s= ave or load a program. The interface plugs into a joystick port and the ligh= t pen port on the back of an Astrocade. There is a small B&W picture of the interface inside each Bally BASIC man= ual on page 130. Since most people don't have this manual, I have uploaded a picture of the interface into the file area of the message board. It is = a color picture from a very recently ended Astrocade auction on ebay. It w= as just one of the many items that was part of an Astrocade package. I know these interfaces are out there, and not too uncommon either. They can't be. A BASIC user before 1981 on an Astrocade had to own this interface, otherwise there was little use in the BASIC cartirdge at all. Adam Trionfo Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_3CBF_01C0E946.4A77ED90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've got one of the 300 baud interfaces, t= hat yes,=20 plugs into the joystick port.  I'd like to hang on to the unit long te= rm,=20 but if it is needed out there to do conversions of stuff, it'd be possible = to=20 loan it for doing conversions if no other units out there end=20 up obtainable.  I think the unit still works right, but = ;need=20 to test it to make sure.
 
Guy Gordon
guygg@3...
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 = Bally=20 Alley
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:03= =20 PM
Subject: [ballyalley] 300 baud int= erface=20 release in question?

May 30, 2001

I posted a message looking for a B= ally=20 300 baud cassette interface and I
have been asked if it really=20 exists.  I was quite surprised by this
question.

Was it=20 released?  It was.

The original version of Bally BASIC did no= t=20 come with a built-in interface.
The cartridge cost about fifty dollars= , and=20 the interface (300 baud, not
2000 baud) cost another fifty dollars.&nb= sp;=20 Without it, there was no way to save
or load a program.  The inte= rface=20 plugs into a joystick port and the light
pen port on the back of an=20 Astrocade.

There is a small B&W picture of the interface insid= e=20 each Bally BASIC manual
on page 130.  Since most people don't hav= e=20 this manual, I have uploaded a
picture of the interface into the file = area=20 of the message board.  It is a
color picture from a very recently= =20 ended Astrocade auction on ebay.  It was
just one of the many ite= ms=20 that was part of an Astrocade package.

I know these interfaces are= out=20 there, and not too uncommon either.  They
can't be.  A BASIC= user=20 before 1981 on an  Astrocade had to own this
interface, otherwise= =20 there was little use in the BASIC cartirdge at all.

Adam=20 Trionfo


Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_3CBF_01C0E946.4A77ED90-- From solder_guy@m... Tue Jun 05 07:29:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 14:29:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 48019 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 14:29:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 14:29:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail16.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.47) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 14:29:12 -0000 Received: œby mail16.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA13787; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 07:29:10 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 07:29:10 -0700 Message-Id: <200106051429.HAA13787@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.35.141] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ballyalley] Re: New file uploaded to ballyalley From: "solder_guy Last Name" Ward: I misplaced your address. What is it again? Rob Mitchell ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Fri Jun 08 11:27:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 18:27:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 40414 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 18:27:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 18:27:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.191) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 18:27:33 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:27:33 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: Discussion group description errors Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:30:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2001 18:27:33.0204 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF147940:01C0F048] From: "Bally Alley" June 8, 2001 Yesterday I was making slight changes to the Bally Alley discussion group description when an error was returned. I have not been able to make it right since. So then, the description is incomplete. The error message informs me that I am using profanity in my description (I am not). This has happened before, and I never was able to get feedback from Yahoo. I just wrote and rewrote the description last time until it was acceptable. I never actually knew what the problem was. Nor can I find any mention of this in help (for instance a list of words deemed inappropriate). I spent about an hour and a half yesterday trying to get the description to be acceptable. It seems that certain combinations of words (CD, programs, images, I think) trip up the checker. I am unwilling to spend any more time on this until I get an answer response from Yahoo (or anyone). I'll be glad to avoid the words or combination of words that are "profane," I just need to know what they are. Anyone had this problem before? Adam Trionfo From ballyalley@h... Fri Jun 08 11:51:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 18:51:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 41446 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 18:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 18:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.199) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 18:51:51 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:51:51 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: Subject: First 135 messages now compiled as text document Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:54:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2001 18:51:51.0108 (UTC) FILETIME=[140EF840:01C0F04C] From: "Bally Alley" June 8, 2001 I have never found reading past postings to web-based discussion groups easy. It takes quite a bit of time and effort to read through previous postings (those using a slower modem may avoid the task altogether). In order to help facilitate new members read these older (but very valid) messages I spent a considerable amount of time yesterday compiling Astrocade Message Postings (1-135) into an ASCII formatted document-- it is about ninety pages long. I have zipped this text document into a 73K file called Astrocade_Messages_1-135.zip and posted it in the file section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ I encourage any of you that have not read all of the past posting to do so; they make for good reading. I have also instituted a new feature for members that join. When a member subscribes to the group now, Astrocade_Messages_1-135.zip will automatically be emailed as an attachment. The principle reasons that I have done this are to help reduce redundant or similar postings (which has not really begun to happen), but more so, to make it clear that an Astrocade community is evolving, and that all postings here help give form and shape to it. Adam Trionfo From tfrevor@y... Fri Jun 08 13:50:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: tfrevor@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 20:50:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 58131 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 20:50:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 20:50:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web11702.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.172.68) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 20:50:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20010608205015.37465.qmail@w...> Received: from [47.230.0.42] by web11702.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 08 Jun 2001 13:50:15 PDT Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [ballyalley] First 135 messages now compiled as text document To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Thomas Revor > I have also instituted a new feature for members > that join. When a member > subscribes to the group now, > Astrocade_Messages_1-135.zip will automatically > be emailed as an attachment. > > The principle reasons that I have done this are to > help reduce redundant or > similar postings (which has not really begun to > happen), but more so, to > make it clear that an Astrocade community is > evolving, and that all postings > here help give form and shape to it. Rather than this, how about someone compile it into some form of an FAQ? I know I'd balk at downloading over 135 messages in one fell swoop, muchless having to read through them. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ballyalley@h... Fri Jun 08 15:39:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 22:39:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 2641 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 22:39:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 22:39:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.46) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 22:39:53 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:39:53 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: References: <20010608205015.37465.qmail@w...> Subject: Astrocade message FAQ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:42:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2001 22:39:53.0040 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF201D00:01C0F06B] From: "Bally Alley" On June 8, 2001, Thomas Revor wrote: > Rather than this [very long ninety page text document], how about someone compile it into some form of an FAQ? I know I'd balk at downloading over 135 messages in one fell swoop, muchless having to read through them. > Creating a "FAQ" from all of this data is an eventual back-burner goal. Before that can be attempted though, the ASCII list needed to be created, and now that is done. It took about five hours to create the document (if you take a look at it, there is more to it then just a raw listing of the messages. It might even be considered a preliminary FAQ already). Downloading all the messages in "one fell swoop" is not difficult with a small 75K file (it is not uncommon for a jpg on a web page to be of this size). I would not force an attachment upon a new member that would make them angry because it ties up their phone for an hour. There are many messages, and I don't blame anyone for not wanting to read through them all. But I do want the choice to be available in an easy format to use for those that want to read them. It takes about as long to downloading this zipped ASCII file as it takes to view just fifteen messages using the web site. Some of the messages WILL be incorporated into the Astrocade FAQ, but many more do not fit into what I think of as Frequently Asked Questions. Some of the postings I have personally written may be expanded and find their way into articles on Bally Alley. Really though, how am I to choose what is important and what is not? Except for a very few messages, almost every message adds to the knowledge on the Astrocade. If you take a close look, few common questions have been asked. The usual brags are noticeably absent (and this wouldn't be the place for them), as are very simple questions like, "What's an Astrocade," and better yet, there has been no bickering between members. The text compilation of messages can use some grammar and spelling corrections, but the content is significant and strong in many areas and doesn't need heavy editing. We have to remember that groups like this are informal gatherings of like-minded people exchanging information freely and quite often quickly. Members have not written these postings with the thought of them being included in a FAQ, yet it may happen anyway in our efforts to sort and categorize our surroundings. Let's not anticipate cropping the information here too much. A slightly shorter and tighter compilation of messages is valid, but certainly there is no deeply expurgated version called for. It is preferable to focus efforts on establishing and creating rather than changing and rearranging, with good cause too: it doesn't needed to be done now. Of course, if any members are just bubbling with excitement to take Thomas's good suggestion, then why not propose your ideas to the group. Thomas really has made a good point. His suggestion is quite logical; unfortunately I don't see the manpower available to initiated it yet. Adam Trionfo June 8, 2001 From a.plantema@x... Fri Jun 08 15:56:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.plantema@x... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 22:56:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 84266 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 22:56:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 22:56:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.xs4all.nl) (194.109.127.131) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 22:56:22 -0000 Received: from powerstation (a194-109-237-23.adsl.xs4all.nl [194.109.237.23]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA06612 for ; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 00:56:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <062601c0f06e$32c95ce0$9600000a@p...> To: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Discussion group description errors Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 00:51:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3719.2500 From: "Alex Plantema" -----Original Message----- From: Bally Alley Date: vrijdag 8 juni 2001 20:38 >Yesterday I was making slight changes to the Bally Alley discussion group >description when an error was returned. I have not been able to make it >right since. > >So then, the description is incomplete. The error message informs me that I >am using profanity in my description (I am not). This has happened before, >and I never was able to get feedback from Yahoo. I just wrote and rewrote >the description last time until it was acceptable. I never actually knew >what the problem was. Nor can I find any mention of this in help (for >instance a list of words deemed inappropriate). I spent about an hour and >a half yesterday trying to get the description to be acceptable. It seems >that certain combinations of words (CD, programs, images, I think) trip up >the checker. I am unwilling to spend any more time on this until I get an >answer response from Yahoo (or anyone). I'll be glad to avoid the words or >combination of words that are "profane," I just need to know what they are. > >Anyone had this problem before? It was discussed in some listmanager groups. Alex. From ballyalley@h... Fri Jun 08 18:16:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 9 Jun 2001 01:16:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 18226 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 01:16:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2001 01:16:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.203) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 01:16:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:16:15 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: References: <062601c0f06e$32c95ce0$9600000a@p...> Subject: Discussion group description error fixed Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:19:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jun 2001 01:16:15.0889 (UTC) FILETIME=[C7BD4010:01C0F081] From: "Bally Alley" > It [the profanity problem] was discussed in some listmanager groups. Thank you, Alex. I was able to "fix" my profane use of language. For those of you that are interested, the obscene word was "document." What? I had to look at it VERY carefully to see that the third, fourth and firth letters even make a word, of sorts. I tacked on a paragraph in the group description that tells prospective members that they will get the 73K document (actually, I had to use the word file) when they subscribe. Adam From slapdash@e... Fri Jun 08 18:44:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 9 Jun 2001 01:44:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 65098 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2001 01:44:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2001 01:44:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.enteract.com) (207.229.143.4) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Jun 2001 01:44:01 -0000 Received: from [207.229.149.223] (207-229-149-223.d.enteract.com [207.229.149.223]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649346289 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 20:44:00 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <062601c0f06e$32c95ce0$9600000a@p...> Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 20:41:17 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Discussion group description error fixed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr >I was able to "fix" my profane use of language. For those of you that are >interested, the obscene word was "document." What? I had to look at it >VERY carefully to see that the third, fourth and firth letters even make a >word, of sorts. Actually, it's probably more insidious than that... "Document" isn't allowed because it may be part of a script acting in the capacity of a virus. The problem is, they don't TELL people that they're doing this sort of thing. At least, I suspect that's what's going on. If you want to test it, put the word "count" in the description somewhere. I'll bet IT will be fine, even though closer to the c-word than "document" is... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Fri Jul 06 13:28:22 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 66284 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2001 20:28:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2001 20:28:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fh.egroups.com) (10.1.2.135) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jul 2001 20:28:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.110] by fh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2001 20:28:18 -0000 Date: 6 Jul 2001 20:28:17 -0000 Message-ID: <994451297.545.58174.f2@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /arcadian_faq.txt Uploaded by : ballyalley@h... Description : Arcadian FAQ (volume/issue listings) You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/arcadian_faq.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ballyalley@h... From ballyalley@h... Fri Jul 06 13:33:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 6 Jul 2001 20:33:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 39801 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2001 20:33:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2001 20:33:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jul 2001 20:33:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ballyalley@h... Received: from [10.1.10.113] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2001 20:33:01 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:32:58 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New "Arcadian" FAQ Message-ID: <9i579q+j5l2@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 307 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.24.176.131 From: "Adam Trionfo" July 6, 2001 A FAQ with listings of all volumes and issues of the "Arcadian" newsletter is available in the file section of the Astrocade Message Board. I gathered this information together for ease of use in compiling the issues online and for creating a coil-bound book of volumes 5-7. Adam Trionfo From slapdash@e... Fri Jul 06 20:17:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 7 Jul 2001 03:17:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 16828 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2001 03:17:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2001 03:17:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jul 2001 03:17:50 -0000 Received: from [207.229.149.221] (207-229-148-157.d.enteract.com [207.229.148.157]) by smtp-1.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDD257FF8 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:17:48 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9i579q+j5l2@e...> References: <9i579q+j5l2@e...> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:14:39 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Oops... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr Sorry I still haven't sent in my donation... Can you accept PayPal? That might be quicker for me... BTW, I got Chris's new address from him, so I sent him the issues he's missed. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From fmillera@p... Sat Jul 07 11:08:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 7 Jul 2001 18:08:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 11962 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2001 18:08:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2001 18:08:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Jul 2001 18:08:14 -0000 Received: from default ([63.199.242.106]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GG400LLU7PNGH@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 11:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 11:08:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Oops... In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20010707110719.00a38100@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1376258==_.ALT" References: <9i579q+j5l2@e...> <9i579q+j5l2@e...> From: Tony Miller --=====================_1376258==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:14 PM 7/6/01 -0500, you wrote: >Sorry I still haven't sent in my donation... Can you accept PayPal? >That might be quicker for me... Folks; Being a new member, I've not heard about donations. How much and what for? Cheers, Tony Miller >BTW, I got Chris's new address from him, so I sent him the issues >he's missed. >-- >//*================================================================++ >|| Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || >|| 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || >++================================================================*// > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_1376258==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 10:14 PM 7/6/01 -0500, you wrote:
Sorry I still haven't sent in my donation...  Can you accept PayPal?
That might be quicker for me...


Folks;

Being a new member, I've not heard about donations.  How much and what for?

Cheers,

Tony Miller


BTW, I got Chris's new address from him, so I sent him the issues
he's missed.
--
//*================================================================++
||  Russ Perry Jr   2175 S Tonne Dr #114   Arlington Hts IL 60005  ||
||  847-952-9729    slapdash@e...    VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR!  ||
++================================================================*//

Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
--=====================_1376258==_.ALT-- From ballyalley@h... Sat Jul 07 13:46:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 7 Jul 2001 20:46:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 99629 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2001 20:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2001 20:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.165) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jul 2001 20:46:36 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:46:36 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 20:46:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: On donations, blueprints and Bally Alley Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 13:46:35 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2001 20:46:36.0233 (UTC) FILETIME=[E9E46B90:01C10725] From: "Adam Trionfo" July 07, 2001 Russ is referring to message 117, "Astrocade Blueprint Proposal." He meant to send that message to me personally, but sent it to the group by accident. There is no sign anywhere that says "donations appreciated” because they are not expected. No group member is expected to give money. Here is an update I sent to Russ in reference to the "Astrocade Blueprint Proposal" (slightly edited): I did get four of the blueprints digitized already. I hunted some more for reasonable prices and found a place that quoted about $10 a sheet to digitize. But that quote was a mistake. The price is actually $5 a sheet. I felt so bad that I had to point that out as an error in my favor. It was NOT an error; that IS the price (5.95, I think). So I have had four done and cleaned them up, but I have not printed them out on large paper yet. The reason for this price is that I am not asking them to touch the file, plus I am giving them the media (zip disk). In addition, the files are far smaller than I was quoted on the phone, so I can easily put these blueprints on Bally Alley. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From slapdash@e... Sat Jul 07 15:03:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 7 Jul 2001 22:03:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 34298 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2001 22:03:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2001 22:03:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.enteract.com) (207.229.143.33) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Jul 2001 22:03:14 -0000 Received: from [207.229.148.218] (207-229-148-218.d.enteract.com [207.229.148.218]) by smtp-1.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05CA6429 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 17:03:11 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010707110719.00a38100@p...> References: <9i579q+j5l2@e...> <9i579q+j5l2@e...> <4.2.2.20010707110719.00a38100@p...> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 17:00:02 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Oops... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr At 11:08 AM -0700 7/7/01, Tony Miller wrote: > [I wrote]: >> Sorry I still haven't sent in my donation... Can you accept PayPal? First off, that was meant as a personal message, but my subject ended up being all the more apropos... > Being a new member, I've not heard about donations. How much and what for? It was to help pay to get some Bally related blueprints scanned in. Adam realized how much it was going to cost and asked for some help. So me and another guy pitched in for the effort. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From fmillera@p... Mon Jul 09 09:28:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 9 Jul 2001 16:28:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 33323 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 16:26:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2001 16:26:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 16:26:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: fmillera@p... Received: from [10.1.10.95] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2001 16:26:55 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 16:26:50 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Blueprints and such Message-ID: <9icm0a+evt5@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 473 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.199.240.111 From: "Tony Miller" Folks; I would be willing to take whatever schematics Adam has and enter them either into Viewlogic, a standard schematic capture tool which could be used to generate a netlist for future Printed Circuit board layout and, unfortunately, doesn't appear to be able to export a jpeg or whatever, or into Visio with appropriate electronic symbols, which will export appropriately but not generate a netlist. Any interest illustrious group leader? Cheers, Tony Miller From ballyalley@h... Mon Jul 09 10:08:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 9 Jul 2001 17:08:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 49491 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 17:08:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2001 17:08:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.187) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 17:08:47 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:08:47 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 17:08:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: On Tony's blueprint suggestion Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:08:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2001 17:08:47.0629 (UTC) FILETIME=[D13933D0:01C10899] From: "Adam Trionfo" July 9, 2001 I can email Tony one of the four (TIFF format) blueprints that I have had scanned in to see what the blueprints look like (Tony email me if this sounds okay). These are blueprints, but NOT schematics (all but one or two-- and those are not Z-GRASS related). These give exact dimensions for the base and the rest of the Z-GRASS unit-- but I have no PCB schematic. Indeed, it looks like I have everything one could want if a dummy Z-GRASS were to be built. But what would the point of that be? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From fmillera@p... Mon Jul 09 10:26:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 9 Jul 2001 17:26:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 94211 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 17:26:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2001 17:26:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 17:26:20 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.240.111]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GG700KDYV3TPD@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:26:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] On Tony's blueprint suggestion In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20010709102020.00ae1220@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_4479050==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller --=====================_4479050==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:08 AM 7/9/2001 -0700, you wrote: >July 9, 2001 > >I can email Tony one of the four (TIFF format) blueprints that I have had >scanned in to see what the blueprints look like (Tony email me if this >sounds okay). These are blueprints, but NOT schematics (all but one or >two-- and those are not Z-GRASS related). These give exact dimensions for >the base and the rest of the Z-GRASS unit-- but I have no PCB schematic. >Indeed, it looks like I have everything one could want if a dummy Z-GRASS >were to be built. But what would the point of that be? Adam; I'm assuming you mean blueprints of the cabinet, keyboard, etc. Dong anything with these makes no sense to me unless someone with lots of disposable income wants to have a mock-up made. If there are schematics available, then the process I outlined makes sense, assuming (1and 2) or 3 below: 1. the group would like to build one or more of these 2. there is some software somewhere which will speak to it once it is built 3. there is some interest from the point of view of what might-have-been were Bally to have figured out how to make a BPA reliably. In reference to 3., above, I wish that I had hung onto what documentation I had, I'm sure it would have been helpful to members of the group. Cheers, Tony Miller >Adam > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_4479050==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 10:08 AM 7/9/2001 -0700, you wrote:
July 9, 2001

I can email Tony one of the four (TIFF format) blueprints that I have had
scanned in to see what the blueprints look like (Tony email me if this
sounds okay).  These are blueprints, but NOT schematics (all but one or
two-- and those are not Z-GRASS related).  These give exact dimensions for
the base and the rest of the Z-GRASS unit-- but I have no PCB schematic. 
Indeed, it looks like I have everything one could want if a dummy Z-GRASS
were to be built.  But what would the point of that be?

Adam;

I'm assuming you mean blueprints of the cabinet, keyboard, etc.  Dong anything with these makes no sense to me unless someone with lots of disposable income wants to have a mock-up made. 

If there are schematics available, then the process I outlined makes sense, assuming (1and 2) or 3 below:

        1.      the group would like to build one or more of these
        2.      there is some software somewhere which will speak to it once it is built
        3.      there is some interest from the point of view of what might-have-been were Bally to have figured out how to             make a BPA reliably.

In reference to 3., above, I wish that I had hung onto what documentation I had, I'm sure it would have been helpful to members of the group.

Cheers,

Tony Miller
 


Adam

_________________________________________________________________
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--=====================_4479050==_.ALT-- From ballyalley@h... Sun Jul 15 20:48:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 16 Jul 2001 03:48:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 96410 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 03:48:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2001 03:48:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.166) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 03:48:13 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 20:48:13 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 03:48:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Adobe help wanted on two Cursor pages Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 20:48:13 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jul 2001 03:48:13.0331 (UTC) FILETIME=[23713E30:01C10DAA] From: "Adam Trionfo" July 15, 2001 Does anyone here know Photoshop enough to help me convert two grayscale TIFF files from the Cursor newsletter into bitmap TIFF files? Pages 52 and 53 of the newsletter use orange bands in the background and blue text to make the pages difficult to photocopy. Lance Squire just made available the two Cursor pages as 256 grayscale TIFF files (he does NOT have the color originals). I need to reduce these to black and white bitmap files. It is no problem to reduce the file to two colors in photoshop, but the clarity (not great to begin with) takes a real nose dive. This needs to be done because the 256 grayscale files are about 6500K, whereas bitmap files will be just a hair under 100K. Anybody willing to take a peek at these files and see what they can come up with? Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From fmillera@p... Mon Jul 16 17:38:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 17 Jul 2001 00:38:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 94022 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 00:38:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2001 00:38:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mw.egroups.com) (10.1.2.2) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 00:38:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: fmillera@p... Received: from [10.1.2.240] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 17 Jul 2001 00:38:54 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 00:38:53 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Adobe help wanted on two Cursor pages Message-ID: <9j01et+cor6@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1139 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.199.241.227 From: "Tony Miller" --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: Adam; Send one of them to me, I'll see what I can do. Thanx, Tony Miller > July 15, 2001 > > Does anyone here know Photoshop enough to help me convert two grayscale TIFF > files from the Cursor newsletter into bitmap TIFF files? > > Pages 52 and 53 of the newsletter use orange bands in the background and > blue text to make the pages difficult to photocopy. Lance Squire just made > available the two Cursor pages as 256 grayscale TIFF files (he does NOT have > the color originals). I need to reduce these to black and white bitmap > files. It is no problem to reduce the file to two colors in photoshop, but > the clarity (not great to begin with) takes a real nose dive. > > This needs to be done because the 256 grayscale files are about 6500K, > whereas bitmap files will be just a hair under 100K. > > Anybody willing to take a peek at these files and see what they can come up > with? > > Adam Trionfo > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ward.shrake@w... Mon Jul 16 18:20:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 17 Jul 2001 01:20:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 86354 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 01:20:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2001 01:20:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mw.egroups.com) (10.1.2.2) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 01:20:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.2.33] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 17 Jul 2001 01:20:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 01:20:31 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Project update: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9j03sv+ad5u@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4254 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.65.34 From: "Ward Shrake" Howdy. I just want the group to be aware of a couple of recent developments in the world of Bally software archiving. First off, at the recent SC3 meeting, I archived another 23 games and utility programs. These included some that were originally tapes, but had been made into cartridge form by Michael White. The list of game carts that started out as carts is nearly complete, or close to it. I have no idea how many tapes and things are "still out there" now? It appears that Michael White has the best listings and info on all that. Neither Adam nor myself has any idea what to do with archived images? We don't want to post them publicly, out of fear and/or respect. Adam wants to try to get the rights legally released by the people that made this stuff, or bought the rights, ages ago. I'm all for that. A few have already given their written "OK" on that. Till that is all sorted out, there isn't much more to say on that subject? ["Opening a big can of worms" mode on.] The Bally-compatible multicart that I've discussed before, is now a reality. The first one ever built was demo'd at the SC3 meeting, this past weekend. (See http://www.classicgaming.com/sc3/index.html) I plan to build one or two more soon, and send them with Geoff Voigt to the CGE meeting in Las Vegas, on August 11-12th, so more people can see these games. (See http://www.cgexpo.com/ for more show info.) He says he'll show it off at the Friday night party, if all goes well. If nothing else, having such a device around when other classic gaming fans are in the same room, lets them see what they've been missing? Being able to demo the whole cartridge ROM library in one short sitting, made at least one person at SC3 want to go out and buy an Astrocade game system for themselves. Kinda cool, seeing that kind of response to a system that died out commercially, decades ago? :-) Technical details: 512k of storage space on the cart. Divide that up into 8k chunks, and you'll see that plenty of even the biggest Astrocade cart games will easily fit onto the cart. There are 39 games on there now (if memory serves), with space for another 20-plus games still left over. And this is with lots of memory currently being "wasted"; every game takes 8k of space now, even for a 2k game. A future revision will likely use memory more efficiently, so roughly half that space should be available for more games, at a later time. The prototype multicart was made on a double-sided PC board that I etched myself. I had done a "proto board" version of a similar circuit for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 game system, previous to this cart. When that design worked fully, I began designing the PC board layout for both an improved Emerson multicart, and for the Bally Astrocade. The concepts were the same, even if layout / pinouts / everything else was radically different, from system to system. There are eight DIP switches on the top of the cart, where they can be reached easily enough to be changed without removing the cart from the machine. Just change the switch settings, press "reset" and the familiar menu pops up onscreen, showing what game is "plugged in" at that time. Change them, reset again, and the next name pops up. Once you get the hang of it, you can go from game to game in seconds. It made a few SC3'ers giddy, seeing all those names pop up, one after another! (Adam especially, but there were others.) Last but not least, since I can see the questions coming.... I do not know if I'm going to sell these. If anyone wants one, they should contact me by e-mail, and ask nicely about it. Don't pester or be pushy, please, as this is all just a hobby for me! I have plenty of other things to do, and don't see any real profit potential in all of this, considering the hours it takes to build one by hand, etc. If I did sell any, they'd essentially be priced to repay my labor hours, and the parts and materials required to build one. I don't intend to charge for content, or any kind of "play value"; I don't own that. It won't be "cheap", as I do expect to get a fair wage for my time. This is a labor of love, but I don't plan to make it a labor of stupidity. Ward Shrake ward.shrake@w... From lance@a... Mon Jul 16 18:26:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 17 Jul 2001 01:26:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 826 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 01:26:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2001 01:26:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail2.rdc1.on.home.com) (24.2.9.89) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 01:26:52 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.101.150.177]) by femail2.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010717012650.RMFS21397.femail2.rdc1.on.home.com@a...> for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:26:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3B539176.4010907@a...> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:14:30 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Program Recorders & html F.A.Qs References: <9i579q+j5l2@e...> <9i579q+j5l2@e...> <4.2.2.20010707110719.00a38100@p...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" Hello, I am glad to see things have progressed in my absence.:) I've been talking to Adam Trionfo on various things, and he informed me that there was a need to know about tape recorders & the Bally/Astro Basic. I'll start off by stating that my original program recorder died. Some time between 1989 and 2 weeks ago. :( The first things to know when looking for a replacement, (or your very first) program recorder are: 1. Auto Level or any other auto sound correction thing will wreck the data stream faster than anything. (Avoid!) 2. The less controls the better. The more things that mess with the sound, the more fiddling you'll have to do to set it up. E.G.: Volume only Ideal! Set level & forget! Volume + Tone Difficult. I find tone somewhere about 3/4 works. (Rough estimate will vary by machine/maker) Vol. + Bass & Treble Hard. May be doable .... Haven't tried Vol. + Equalizer Hard^n levers. May be doable, but I've never gotten one to work. Hunting around, I found RadioShack still sells the old style recorders. Now called 'Shoe box style' recorders. Currently they have 2 units for $49.99 CDN. The Optimus CTR-109. Has volume & tone. Is on clearance. The Optimus CTR-111. New start of line. Volume Only! For those getting there first I'd suggest the CTR-111, as it should be the easiest to setup. I chose the 109 cause I liked the look better, and knew about where the tone should be. It still took me about an hour of attempted loads to find the proper settings. Two tips when recording: 1. be sure the tape is past the leader bit. I usually wait till '2' appears on the counter. 2. save twice in one session. This gives you a second chance to get it without rewinding the tape. On playback, the led on the basic cart should be bright, but still show changes in signal. NOTE: Just because the led looks good doesn't mean it's right. You have to be methodical or lucky to hit the right volume. You know it's loading when the data on the screen when you saved starts appearing line by line down the screen. This fact can be used to save a title page. It's a good idea to have a messy screen on you test saves, so that it's easy to tell when it starts loading. Also remember there's a three second header on the saved data. I'm sure I can't answer all questions on this subject, but I do have a new recorder & it works! :) I will be showing Adam & co. and updated html F.A.Q soon. We'll keep you posted. Lance F. Squire From ward.shrake@w... Thu Jul 19 04:41:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 19 Jul 2001 11:41:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 90090 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 11:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2001 11:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ml.egroups.com) (10.1.1.31) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 11:41:00 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.114] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2001 11:40:58 -0000 Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:40:55 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Project update: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9j6h07+m35d@e...> In-Reply-To: <9j03sv+ad5u@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 8698 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.217 From: "Ward Shrake" I've had a bit of e-mail feedback now, in regards to my previous post about my new multicart. I can already see some trends to the type of questions I'm going to be fielding. So, let me head some of them off early, and also a few I think that people could be asking soon.... (Q.) Do I have to buy your multicart to play (insert game name)? Is there some other way to play games for the Bally Astrocade system? (A.) My multicart is not the only way to play these games. Obviously, you can go out and find the actual carts one-by-one, buy a real Bally system, and play games that way. Emulation is another way. MESS does support the Bally Astrocade, and ROM images are available online. I have always made sure that whatever ROM images I had from archiving various carts, got into the hands of the movers-and-shakers of this community. Some ROMs are online and available for download. Some are not. The decision to keep some ROMs in private collections was not my idea. I do, however, respect it and the reasons behind it. At least a few of these games are now legally available for play by anyone, for non-profit purposes, because of the patience and restraint exercised, not to mention the efforts to track the authors down and ask nicely. We hope that in time, they'll all be available for non-profit use? In the meantime, there are still plenty of non-multicart ways to play. (Q.) What do you mean by "non-profit"? Why use that term at all? (A.) I respect the rights of the people who wrote this software, to determine who -- if anyone -- is allowed to copy it. But I also do not want this software to succumb to "bit rot" or any of the other nasty fates that could keep the world from rediscovering these bits (pun intended) of our cultural history. So, I'm torn between two opposing views. I have made a multicart, basically to have it myself, for use in my own home. And a few friends wanted me to make one for them, which sounded reasonable enough. And then other people began saying they wanted one, too. Which puts me where I am today; giving serious thought to making a limited number of these multicarts, and selling them to others. Where I'm drawing my moral lines is that I'm not planning to profit off of someone else's work. I do, however, want to be paid for my own labor hours, and reimbursed for my costs in terms of materials, wear on cutting and drilling tools, etc. But beyond that, I'm not trying to make a profit. I just want to have a good time, make some cool stuff, play some games, and break even. (Q.) What will these multicarts cost me, if I want to buy one? (A.) Probably around one hundred dollars, but that's just a rough figure, which may change. It's a good approximation for right now. I'm basing that on a rough guesstimate of $20 to $30 in parts and material costs, which I'll obviously need to be reimbursed for. I am guessing it will take about three or four hours of labor per cart, from start to finish, based on how long the prototypes took to put together this past weekend, and general experience with electronics. That would mean I'm asking for a wage of around $15 to $20 an hour, give or take, to make one of these on my "one-man assembly line". I am also not adding a charge for having developed this in the first place, or all the time it took to find and archive all these carts. I plan to make a custom label, and not charge for the artwork, either. I don't see this as being unreasonable to the customer, at all? If you know the pay rates electronics techs usually get -- and I do have a college degree in electronics, mind you -- you'll know that's darn cheap? Many repair places get $60 to $75 an hour. At $20-ish, I'm almost giving my time away! (Below that, I have better things to do with my time... like watching television. Or sleeping.) But for a project that I see as a labor of love, and if I'm treated decently by others during the process, I can justify spending my time to do this. (Q.) Will you teach me how to make my own multicart? (A.) No. I don't have the time to. If you want to find out about that sort of thing, go back and read the archived messages. Number 115 was posted by me, months ago. It gives links to that sort of information. If you really want to do it yourself, and you think you have all the background information / experience / skills to do something like this, that linked information should be all you need. Good luck! (Q.) Will you just sell me the parts I need, and let me build a multicart in kit form? (Presumably paying less in the process.) (A.) No, for a number of very good reasons. First, it would be totally pointless to do so from a cost standpoint, since by far the largest majority of the time spent on building one of these is getting the circuit board ready for final assembly. For example: I have to clean and light sensitize a raw double-sided circuit board, expose the photo-mask patterns onto the board, develop the etch resist patterns, etch the board, clean off the etch resist, drill all the tiny holes, cut the board to its final shape, deburr any sharp edges, make sure the board fits into the plastic case just right (so the cart edges goes to where they're supposed to, otherwise the cart will not work at all), carefully cut a hole in the plastic case for the DIP switches, print out a custom-made label for the cart, attach it, and print out instructions on how to use the cart's dip switches to select the games on the cart. The only steps I skipped in the long list above are programming the EPROM memory chip, soldering all the parts together, and giving the final product a good testing before shipping it out. Notice how long the list was, even without those last few steps? That's where the majority of my time will be spent, no matter how I make one of these carts. Cost savings? Not likely. Notice also that if I made a kit, and sold that to someone willing to solder it all together, that I would also be cut completely out of the loop on the final pre-shipping step. That is, actually testing the unit to make sure it works. Sorry: that is NOT going to happen! If I do sell one of these, it is going to leave my hands in tested- and-working form, for my own peace of mind. (Years ago, I worked at a local college as an electronics lab assistant. I've seen plenty of student work. It scares me to this day!) If I test it all myself before it leaves my hands, I have peace of mind that I won't get complaints later, I won't have to deal with any assembly hand-holding hassles (not to mention lost time), and nobody will have an excuse to bad-mouth me behind my back because they couldn't get "their" project to work. And I won't have to deal with people wanting telling me to do repairs, after they burnt half the traces off the board, etc. And I won't have to deal with requests for full refunds, either, due to non-working carts. All of which I believe is not only possible, but inevitable, no matter what people will try to tell me up front. Does it make any sense to me to skip one relatively small soldering step, and take on all this unnecessary worry and hassle in its place? No way. I'd have to be insane to agree to that. I'm not. I won't do it. (Q.) I've read all the above, I am willing to pay your asking price without talking you down, I will try hard not to be rude or mean to you, and I still want one of these. How can I go about getting one? (A.) Write to me at my e-mail address, and tell me about it. I have no stocks of these ready to go; none, nada, zip. Be warned now that any orders for them will be done on an "I actually have a life, and this is just a hobby, so I will build you one when I have time to" basis. I won't take money until the cart is ready to go; that's just right, and is for both our protection. My immediate plans are to build a small amount of them (1 to 5) over the next few weeks, and to send one or more of those with Geoff Voigt to the CGE meeting in Las Vegas, during August 2001. Geoff agreed this weekend to show them off, on Friday night at least, possibly later. (I say "them" because I also made a similar multicart for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 game system. I hope to have examples of both ready for CGE in August. Keep in mind that even if you have no intent of buying one of these, that if you're going to CGE anyway, here is a good chance to see and play lots of really rare games for two obscure -- sorry! -- systems?) I am afraid I won't be able to attend CGE myself. More news as it happens. This should answer just about everyone's current questions, I hope? Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Fri Jul 20 18:30:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 21 Jul 2001 01:30:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 25123 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2001 01:30:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2001 01:30:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n34.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.30) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Jul 2001 01:30:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.95] by mk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2001 01:30:32 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 01:30:31 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Project update: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9jalvn+eiaj@e...> In-Reply-To: <9j6h07+m35d@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3543 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.138 From: "Ward Shrake" Some more thoughts, and attempts to answer semi-frequent questions in regards to the multicarts I'm working on for both the Emerson Arcadia and the Bally Astrocade.... (Q.) Are you going to offer any discounts, say for buying two carts? (A.) No discounts of any kind are going to be offered beyond the already low price I'm charging for my time. As stated before, technicians that are capable of etching and assembling their own custom circuit boards make an hourly wage of around $60 an hour, or even more. I am only asking around $20 an hour for my time, maybe less. That's already a price reduction of sixty-six percent, or two- thirds off. If I did charge full industry rates of $60 an hour, times the four hours of my time each cart will take me to make, that's $240 in labor alone. Add in the $30 or so in materials and tool wear, to get $270 total. As stated many times before, I'm not going to charge anything at all for the content itself, the design time I spent to have created the working original prototype in the first place, the time to create PC board photo-masks, or the time for me to create new label art for this project. And then there is the issue of customer support down the road, which people will inevitably expect to be given to them for free. (And so on... if you don't get the point by now, you never will, so I'm moving on.) (Q.) I just can't afford to pay $100 (or more) for one of these multicarts. What should I do? (A.) Stop wanting one. Seriously. I'm not going to give them away, no matter how much of a hardship a person claims it will cause them to have to come up with that kind of money. It would be a hardship for me to waste all of my free time, when I could just as easily spend it more wisely by getting a part-time job that pays a fair hourly wage. As stated before, this multicart is not the only way to play these games. We've all managed to live for twenty-plus years without one of these items. It seems ridiculous for people to be giving themselves an ulcer trying to figure out how they can get something today, that they've lived their whole lives without having. "It's just a hobby." I forgot to mention it before, but Michael White will make individual cartridges of just about anything for the Bally library. Add that to my previous post's list of alternate ways you can play these games. (Q.) Don't you feel you owe something to the people that loaned you carts over the years? Can't you do something special for them? (A.) I already have. I have spent literally years of my life, finding and archiving carts for free, so that game fans could see and play these relics years from now. I've always made sure the owners of a cart had a backup copy of their rare item, and access to any other ROM images I had and was able to distribute among fans of various systems. Not to mention all the game ROMs that are available solely because of my efforts, that you can all enjoy for free, via software emulation? I've done plenty for everyone. If anything, the community owes ME some kind of a debt of gratitude, not the other way around? And to be fair, I don't see any of those people actually asking this? It is much more likely the kind of thing to be said behind one's back, by the un-involved, as an excuse to be unrealistically angry over the idea that they can't have all the candy in the candy store. (Q.) You really sound like a huge jerk. How'd you end up this way? (A.) Years of practice. Thanks for asking. :-) Ward Shrake From ballyalley@h... Fri Jul 20 21:51:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 21 Jul 2001 04:51:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 77019 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2001 04:51:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2001 04:51:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.30.148) by mta3 with SMTP; 21 Jul 2001 04:51:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:51:29 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 04:51:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Fair mululticart price? I think so! Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:51:28 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jul 2001 04:51:29.0291 (UTC) FILETIME=[CE1385B0:01C111A0] From: "Adam Trionfo" I just want to vouch for Ward (I’ve met him). He is not a jerk, as he suggested of himself in his latest (third!) multicart update. Ward is a descent person. His suggested price of about one-hundred dollars for a multicart is not outrageous. I applaud him for his cost breakdown; he includes a reasonable wage for his labor too. Think of this: each cartridge is made by hand. How many other cartridges do you have that are made by hand? Any at all? Anyone can go into a store and buy an art print, but few can afford an original. The difference is in manufacturing. As anyone knows, volume keeps down costs, and Ward’s one-man assembly line is not volume manufacturing with any sense of the word. I wonder if Ward ever feels that his time is wasted making these cartridges. The exciting part (creation) is over for him. Now he is doing the grunt work, assembling and building cartridges for as low a price as possible so that he doesn’t lose interest. Ward’s time really is worth something, to him- and to me. I know that what he does is worth far more than the measly amount of money that selling a handful of these cartridges is ever going to bring to him. I am glad to show my appreciation here by stating publicly that his multicart is worth as much as he claims. And more. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From solder_guy@m... Sat Jul 21 19:03:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 22 Jul 2001 02:03:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 47466 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2001 02:03:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jul 2001 02:03:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail11.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Jul 2001 02:03:17 -0000 Received: œby mail11.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA16274; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:03:16 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:03:16 -0700 Message-Id: <200107220203.TAA16274@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.36.223] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bally multicart From: "solder_guy Last Name" Well $100 is alot of money ... but that is in the middle of the range of costs for multicarts offered by Sean Kelly and others .. Plus the new Cuttle Cart for the Atari 2600 is costing $100 plus shipping. Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ward.shrake@w... Sun Jul 22 20:41:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 23 Jul 2001 03:41:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 96444 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 03:41:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Jul 2001 03:41:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.49) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 03:41:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ward.shrake@w... Received: from [10.1.10.95] by ej.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2001 03:41:02 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 03:40:58 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9jg6ca+d7dt@e...> In-Reply-To: <200107220203.TAA16274@m...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 6268 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.210 From: "Ward Shrake" --- In ballyalley@y..., "solder_guy Last Name" wrote: > Well $100 is alot of money ... but that is in the middle of the range of costs for multicarts offered by Sean Kelly and others .. Plus the new Cuttle Cart for the Atari 2600 is costing $100 plus shipping. > > Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Believe it or not, Rob, I agree with you... $100 is a lot of money. I never said it was a pittance. In fact, I'll go so far as to say publicly that if this situation were reversed -- if someone else was selling these and I was buying -- that given my budget, it would realistically most likely be a year, maybe two, before I could afford to buy one. I just don't have lots of disposable cash laying around. I almost never have, except in unpredictable spurts, here and there. And honestly, it does bother me to be charging that much. I just see no choice. What I'm doing for a day job, right now, is acting. If you're ever heard the horror stories about all that, financially speaking, you'll have some idea of why I feel I *have* to charge for my time, or find a regular part time job to supplement my income. (Of course, the up-side of all that is lots of spare time, right?) Money is probably one big reason why I've been so defensive about all this, of late? (That and some mind-blowingly inflammatory comments made about we homebrew types, over on the rec.games.video.classic usenet newsgroup, last week. But that's another story in itself.) So, folks, allow me to rephrase some of what I said earlier, take some of it back, and tone it all down a bit. Put things in better perspective, etc., and see if that helps explain my ideas better? The idea of a multicart is not new. There have been such things on other systems, for quite a long time. But this system just got one that could hold the whole library, so I suppose that a certain amount of "ooh, ooh, I want that!" is inevitable. Which makes me nervous, because I'm making each one of these by hand, in my spare time, when I don't already have some unrelated thing taking up my spare time. In other words, if there was a sudden rush on "give me one right this minute" I would have a darned hard time filling those orders. Which would bother me quite a bit, and stress me out. Realistically, I would like to get a few carts made before CGE, just to show to others (through a proxy, since I won't be able to go this year). I may be paranoid, but I'd like to get more feedback on these before I begin making them? I want to feel comfortable that once I do start making them for sale, that people will like what they've paid for. And that I've thought of all of the "future-support" type things that I can. All of which makes me want to put the brakes on people, just in case? On top of that, I don't want people freaking out over "I have to have this, or I'm going to just die right here" type attitudes. (Part of the big ruckus on RGVC was caused by just such an attitude.) I worded my "stop wanting one" comment harsher than I should have, mainly to try to avoid that sort of pressure from jumping out at me. I won't argue with that. It wasn't my intent to be rude or mean, or to hurt anyone's feelings. On the other hand, I didn't want to be blamed for people being obsessed with the idea that they just HAD to have one of these? A multicart is neat. I built the first ones for myself, so yeah, they're cool to have around, if you want to play lots of stuff. But are they the only way to see what these rare, "mystical" games look like, or sound like? Not really. As I mentioned before, Michael White can solder you up just about any single cartridge you'd want, no matter how rare it is. (If he has the ROM image, and he has most.) And don't quote me, but I think he does it for around $10 per cart, which I think is quite reasonable? Especially for the super- rare, "good luck ever finding it in the wild or on eBay" type carts? (A quick aside -- I talked to Mike on the phone, last night. He is making up what sounds like the world's best, most accurate, most detailed cartridge list the Bally has ever seen. I can't wait!?) And to be honest, I was way too defensive on the bit about the guys that loaned me carts in the past. It isn't that I don't appreciate what they've done. I thought it was super nice of them then, and I still think well of them for doing it. In fact, for most systems I have archived stuff on, I keep fairly detailed lists, privately reminding me of who loaned me what. But again, if they suddenly decided to start pushing me for deals, or just to make them one, I would be back in that "rush, rush, rush" mode I want to avoid. This is supposed to be a hobby, which to me means it is something I look forward to doing, and that relaxes me when I do it. Not something that I'll quickly come to resent doing, and want to avoid doing altogether. Plus, I want to be able to take breaks from it, once in awhile? I'm human. I don't want to be a robotic assembly line? So, let me wrap this up this way... If anyone wants some ROM images to play in an emulator, write to me in e-mail. I'll see what I can do. And you don't have to tell me you want a multicart, either. I've always tried to share this stuff, as much as was reasonable and prudent? Just ask nicely, and try to show some appreciation for the game system itself, and I'll try to make your day. If people want individual carts made up, contact Mike White. When I talked to him yesterday, he said he has enough raw parts to make about 100 individual cartridges... give or take. No problems there. And pretty please, if you think it all over, and you do decide that you really want a multicart, try to have a relaxed attitude about it, so that I don't stress and feel I have to start acting like "Oscar the Grouch" again. (Not that I blame anyone but me.) I don't want to do that, any more than you guys want to have to put up with it. :-( Ideally, if people had that "whenever you feel like it, and have the time" no-pressure type attitude, I could make a few of these each month, until the hardcore fans all had one. I'm in no hurry if you guys aren't? Till then, there's always ROM images and emulation? Ward Shrake From solder_guy@m... Mon Jul 23 06:44:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: solder_guy@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 23 Jul 2001 13:44:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 6184 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 12:10:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Jul 2001 12:10:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail21.bigmailbox.com) (209.132.220.195) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 12:10:11 -0000 Received: œby mail21.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA07184; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 05:10:11 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 05:10:11 -0700 Message-Id: <200107231210.FAA07184@m...> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [216.78.37.52] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Bally multicart From: "solder_guy Last Name" >>Believe it or not, Rob, I agree with you... $100 is a lot of money.<< Thanks Ward .. I look forward to getting my own multicart! Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ From ballyalley@h... Thu Jul 26 16:25:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 26 Jul 2001 23:25:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 22605 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2001 23:25:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Jul 2001 23:25:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.70) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Jul 2001 23:25:19 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:25:19 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:25:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Astrocade messages (part 2) 136-161 in file area Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:25:19 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2001 23:25:19.0676 (UTC) FILETIME=[3C27BFC0:01C1162A] From: "Adam Trionfo" July 26, 2001 I have edited and uploaded another text compilation of postings into the file area of the Astrocade message group. The file is compressed using zip. Many of the messages in this new file contain postings from the last few weeks that deal with the Astrocade multicart. The file is called: astrocade_messages_136-161.zip As always, it can be found at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ After working with the first large file, I am going to try to make these compilation of messages more frequently. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ballyalley@h... Thu Jul 26 18:28:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 27 Jul 2001 01:28:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 90973 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2001 01:28:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2001 01:28:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.83) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Jul 2001 01:28:30 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:28:30 -0700 Received: from 24.24.176.131 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 01:28:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.24.176.131] To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Help with Issue 2 of Bally Alley Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:28:30 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jul 2001 01:28:30.0628 (UTC) FILETIME=[71818640:01C1163B] From: "Adam Trionfo" July 26, 2001 After printing out the two Astrocade message compilation files, I see that SOMETHING has to be done to make this information easier to read. The idea of a smaller Message FAQ has come up before, but after spending a couple of hours toying with this idea, I have decided it is best to leave ALL of the messages the way that they are. While it is certainly possible to weed out all of the information and make a Message FAQ, I’m not sure that the final result would be much easier to read. On several occasions I’ve been asked if the Bally Alley newsletter is dead (after only one issue). My reply is always the same, “when I finish collecting information on the web site, then I will return to the newsletter.” I realize now that the Bally Alley web site will never be “done.” Therefore, I have decided that another PAPER issue of Bally Alley is due. I do not mean that I will be mailing these to anyone (like I did with OC&GS, or like Digital Press does currently), I plan to post issue 2 as a PDF file available for download. I am looking for help with putting the issue together. I am not looking to cut and paste directly from the message board postings. These will be used (along with an accumulated wealth of email) as a basis for writing quality articles. Ideally I would like to have a small issue to take along to CGExpo. This probably means about eight pages (four actual double-sided pages): a nice short issue (double the size of issue one though). I have about two weeks (minus a few days) to come up with this. In an ideal world I would have no problem reaching this goal, but since I am moving at the end of August it is quite unlikely that an issue will be finished before I go. I’m going to give it a go anyway. I shall post more of this subject soon. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From rich_gallo@h... Tue Jul 31 06:20:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich_gallo@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 31 Jul 2001 13:20:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 13740 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 13:19:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2001 13:19:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 13:19:33 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: rich_gallo@h... Received: from [10.1.10.66] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2001 13:19:33 -0000 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:19:32 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bally multicart Message-ID: <9k6b94+dl05@e...> In-Reply-To: <200107231210.FAA07184@m...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 423 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 206.210.27.33 From: "Rich Gallo" Ward, I would certainly consider a Bally Multicart from you if this becomes a reality. I currently don't own a Bally machine, but I have wanted to for some time. This would be a great excuse to purchase the hardware, since I enjoy playing the classics on the original hardware more than emulation, and more than collecting boxes and manuals and stuff. The price is certainly within my budget, so keep me informed! From lance@a... Thu Aug 02 17:10:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Aug 2001 00:10:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 53971 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 00:10:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2001 00:10:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail2.rdc1.on.home.com) (24.2.9.89) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 00:10:30 -0000 Received: from alteeve.com ([24.100.237.28]) by femail2.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010803001029.CLUV10662.femail2.rdc1.on.home.com@a...> for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:10:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:57:44 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i586; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001107 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Original Bally etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" This morning a Bally 'Home Library Computer', First nameplate the unit was ever sold under, went for US $247.50 (approx. C $380.18). Unbeleavable... I'm trying to make arangements with the new owner to get pictures. Work on the updated html faq is progressing....slowly. Lance F. Squire From slapdash@e... Thu Aug 02 22:25:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: slapdash@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Aug 2001 05:25:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 86946 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 05:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2001 05:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.enteract.com) (207.229.143.4) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 05:25:35 -0000 Received: from [207.229.149.223] (207-229-149-223.d.enteract.com [207.229.149.223]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B2BF8B9E for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:25:34 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: slapdash@p... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> References: <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:21:10 -0500 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Original Bally etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Russ Perry Jr >This morning a Bally 'Home Library Computer', First nameplate the unit >was ever sold under, went for US $247.50 (approx. C $380.18). I assume this was on one of the auction sites? Do you have a URL? >I'm trying to make arangements with the new owner to get pictures. Were there any pix on the auction? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// From agassmann@e... Fri Aug 03 05:38:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: agassmann@e... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Aug 2001 12:37:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 79595 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 12:37:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2001 12:37:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.49) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 12:37:58 -0000 Received: from m4q1l6.earthlink.net (user-33qto4a.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.224.138]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06500 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 05:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.1.20010803063415.00a74ec0@m...> X-Sender: agassmann@m... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:35:50 -0600 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Original Bally etc. In-Reply-To: References: <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> <3B69E8F8.2070801@a...> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_228196638==_" From: Andrew Gassmann --=====================_228196638==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:21 AM 8/3/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >This morning a Bally 'Home Library Computer', First nameplate the unit > >was ever sold under, went for US $247.50 (approx. C $380.18). > >I assume this was on one of the auction sites? Do you have a URL? > > >I'm trying to make arangements with the new owner to get pictures. > >Were there any pix on the auction? >-- Here is a pic of my Bally 'Home Library Computer' Grandkids play 'Wizard' on it, and love it. Andy >//*================================================================++ >|| Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || >|| 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... 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