From ward.shrake@w... Sat Jan 05 13:45:02 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 5 Jan 2002 21:44:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 57673 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 21:44:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2002 21:44:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.61) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 21:45:00 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.111] by n11.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2002 21:44:58 -0000 Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 21:44:59 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Need Lance Squire's new e-mail address Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 411 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.154 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan Lance, if you're reading this, you know that e-mail to you at lance@a... is bouncing back. Your latest e-mail to me did get through. However, you did not send the updated e-mail address you meant to send me; the "address above" was just a re-listing of the one that is not working. Please resend your real e-mail address to me, and I'll send the information you asked me for. Thanks. Ward Shrake From komb@s... Sun Jan 06 08:20:49 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 6 Jan 2002 16:20:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 3977 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 16:20:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2002 16:20:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.52) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 16:20:48 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.249.217]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020106162048.SARO16860.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 11:20:48 -0500 Message-ID: <3C387966.8070602@s...> Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 11:20:54 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.5) Gecko/20011014 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Need Lance Squire's new e-mail address References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian commie_fan wrote: > Lance, if you're reading this, you know that e-mail to you at > lance@a... is bouncing back. Your latest e-mail to me did get > through. However, you did not send the updated e-mail address you > meant to send me; the "address above" was just a re-listing of the > one that is not working. Please resend your real e-mail address to > me, and I'll send the information you asked me for. Thanks. Just so everyone knows, Alteeve.com is going through a re-location. (Unplanned) Until this is resolved that email address & the current html faq are un reachable. :( I do have an old backup of the html faq on www.investbuysell.com/~lance/Ballyfaq.html, but don't want anybody to set there links there yet... The Email address above should read, komb@s... I apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused. Just bad luck, I'm afraid. Lance F. Squire From ballyalley@h... Tue Jan 08 19:19:29 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 9 Jan 2002 03:19:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 21013 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 03:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2002 03:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.200) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 03:19:28 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:19:28 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 03:19:28 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] New post of a zipped pdf file describing how the BPA hardware works Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:19:28 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jan 2002 03:19:28.0770 (UTC) FILETIME=[72A3DE20:01C198BC] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Tony REALLY understates his BPA.pdf posting. He calls it simply, "a description of how the BPA video hardware works (for both consumer and commercial versions). This is an attempt to put to rest the rumor that a BPA can, with some simple modifications, output commercial resolution video." What Tony does NOT say is the detail and level of expertise that has gone into this 25-page document. This is not just a text file with some graphics thrown in for good measure; this is a mini-manual-- a suppliment to the Nutting Manual. Don't let this download pass through your fingers without a look. Take a look and (if you don't understand it) absorb the atmosphere and the effort of a job well done. James Krych, I hope you have looked at Tony's work! What are your thoughts? Anybody's? Tony, you ought to get a medal. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From komb@s... Wed Jan 09 15:20:58 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 9 Jan 2002 23:20:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 96353 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 23:20:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2002 23:20:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.52) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 23:20:56 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.248.139]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020109232056.ULCC16860.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:20:56 -0500 Message-ID: <3C3CD05D.9010801@s...> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:21:01 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.5) Gecko/20011014 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] New post of a zipped pdf file describing how the BPA hardware works References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo wrote: > Tony REALLY understates his BPA.pdf posting. >What are your thoughts? > Anybody's? > > Tony, you ought to get a medal. > > Adam > I must say that this is an invaluable piece of work. Truly those involved in the design of these chips were ahead of there time! I thank you, Lance F. Squire From ballyalley@h... Fri Jan 11 13:36:00 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 11 Jan 2002 21:35:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 22172 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 21:35:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2002 21:35:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.33) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 21:35:59 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:35:59 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 21:35:59 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: When is a cassette not a cassette? When it's used as RAM! Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:35:59 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jan 2002 21:35:59.0472 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5C7CF00:01C19AE7] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Jan 11, 2002 When is a cassette not a cassette? When it's used as RAM! The Astrocade (1977) computer and any computer from today (2002) are similar in name only. Computers still work using the same idea (ones and zeroes) and do the same thing (freeze-up, breakdown, lose our data, make us curse), but a store-bought computer today really means (at least) a complete set-up of items to make us curse: computer, monitor, printer, memory, hard drive, CD-ROM drive, floppy drive, keyboard, and mouse. The Astrocade, with BASIC, is about as rudimentary a home computer as you can have; the memory storage device (cassette) is serial- the user uses a common (for the time) household audio-cassette recorder. What those users would not have given for a fast Random Access floppy drive- like our modern, much beloved, floppy drive. I'm not knocking this early computer arrangement; it works. Even then users were always looking for something more, something better, something to make the system have bragging rights. Who wanted to go around saying, "I have a 4K Astrocade," when one could brag with something like, "I have an expanded Astrocade, I made a 1K RAM expander myself. Imagine what I can do now, the possibilities are endless!" Nowadays memory and storage have somewhat lost bragging rights (everyone's got lots of it). The following article, Poor Man's Memory Expansion, from a 1980 issue of the Cursor newsletter has always been a favorite of mine. I've retyped it so that it can be shared- and make us all feel bad; it will make you think twice again about complaining about your current computer set. Adam Poor Man's Memory Expansion By C.J. Anderson Flash Foonman, our resident maniac and sometime inventor, came running into the office yesterday looking more wild than usual. "What would you say," he smirked, "if I told you I had just downloaded that 16K BASIC CHESS program into Bally BASIC and it's up and running on the Arcade right now?" "I'd say you've started drinking early today," I replied, but he had already grabbed my arm and hauled me out of my chair. Out on the bench sat the Bally. On the screen was a chessboard. White had just opened with P - K4. Nothing was happening, but I noticed that the cassette recorder was running and the red light on the interface was on. Suddenly the screen went blank and a program listing began to appear. "It's working on its opening move," said Flash. "We should have its response in a couple of hours." "A couple of hours?!" I moaned. "Hey, that's good for a chess program, "said Flash. "Atari's VIDEO CHESS, level 7, takes an average of eight to ten hours per move. Anyway, since we've got plenty of time, let me explain what's happening here." I assured him I was all ears. "I really do have a 16,000 byte program running here," he began, but I stopped him. "Where's your expanded RAM?" I asked. "Where is your memory add-on?" "Right here," he said, patting the cassette recorder. "And it's not RAM, it's mass memory just like a floppy disk or a stringy floppy. Only it's very slow. I call it a STRINGY CREEPY." "You mean you've got a 16,000 byte program on that cassette and the Bally is processing it 1800 bytes at a time?" I gasped. "That's really neat, Flash, but how many times do you have to sit here and rewind the tape looking for the subroutines you need as the program calls for them? You've just made yourself a part of the machine, and I don't call that true computing." "Not so, mon ami," he replied. "I never touch the machine. It calls for its own subroutines and loads them automatically whenever it needs them thanks to the newly discovered SELECTIVE LOAD function that Fred Cornett wrote about in Vol. II, issue 2 of Cursor. Each subroutine on the tape is prefaced by an identifier number, you know: 257, 258, etc. Each subroutine uses the same line numbers so when a new subroutine is called for it automatically erases the previous one from our constant 1800 byte RAM. When the new subroutine is fully loaded, a :RETURN; GOTO 1000 command on the tape starts the computer running again and it branches down into the new material. Then it decides which subroutine it wants to see next, sets the A variable to that number, and branches to a :INPUT A;STOP command in RAM. That sends it back to the tape to find the subroutine that corresponds to the value of A. Simple, huh?" "Hold it!" I said. "That's really brilliant, all right, but what happens when the cassette comes to the end? How do you rewind it to start over?" "I don't have to," said Flash, grinning, "because this is a very special cassette. It has no end and no beginning. It's the Automatic Repeating Cassette, catalog number 60,920 from Edmund Scientific Co., 101 E. Gloucester Pike, Barrington, New Jersey 08007. It sells for a measly $12.95 plus $1.75 shipping and handling, and it boasts 20 minutes of recording time. That's enough to store 20,000 bytes of data or program [when using 300 baud Bally BASIC]. I tested the process with a Radio Shack 43-401 which has only 20 SECONDS of recording time and costs $5.95, but this A.R.C. from Edmund is the cat's pajamas!" "Now let me get this straight," I said. "This endless cassette just sits here going around and around forever, and the computer keeps jumping to it, waiting for its desired data to come around then loading that data and therefore modifying its own program constantly?" "Yup," said the madman. "No limit to the size of the program you can run as long as time is not an important factor. On a long program like this 16K job you may have to wait up to 20 minutes between each subroutine, which is okay, for a sophisticated chess game or for mailing list or word-processing applications. For shorter programs, but still larger than 1800 bytes, I just the load the subroutines in sequence several times on the cassette loop. That speeds up the search. If I can get them on twice, we can search in ten minutes. If I can get them on there three times, it's a little less than 7 minutes." Just then the chessboard reappeared on the screen and the computer made its move: P - K4. "I expected that," mumbled Flash, and reached for his copy of BOBBY FISCHER TEACHES CHESS. I left him mumbling something about the Sililian Defense, but not before I had picked up his notes off the bench. Here's a simple little program that Flash designed to demonstrate his "stringy creepy" concept to any skeptical users. STRINGY CREEPY CASSETTE OPERATING SYSTEM (COS) By Flash Foonman Use an ordinary blank cassette, or one of the two described. The program will demonstrate how the computer can continually modify its internal program by acting on its own decisions. If you use an endless cassette, it will do so with no human assistance. Otherwise you must rewind the tape after each response. Type the following line: 100 PRINT "FOUND 257";RETURN Now, transfer it to the tape with the following commands input without a line number (before hitting "GO" make sure your tape recorder is recording): NT=1;:PRINT ;TV=1;TV=1;LIST;PRINT ":RETURN;GOTO 10 Stop the recorder. Do not rewind. Now type: 100 PRINT "FOUND 258";RETURN Transfer it to tape with the previous command, changing the identifier to "...TV=1;TV=2..." etc. Repeat this process twice more, using "...FOUND 259..." "...TV=1;TV=3..." and "...FOUND 260..." "...TV=1;TV=4...". Rewind the cassette, RESET the Bally and enter this simple program: 5 CLEAR 10 GOSUB 100:A=RND (4)+256;PRINT "A=",#0,A 20 :INPUT A;STOP 100 PRINT "START CASSETTE";RETURN Okay, RUN the program. Start the cassette. The screen displays the value it has selected for A, the input port opens, the program stops, and the computer loads subroutine A when it finds it. It then restarts itself and announces that it has found subroutine A. HALT the program at this point, and LIST it on the screen. Notice what happened to line 100; out with the old, in with the new. If you're using a repeating cassette you can sit back and watch the computer reprogram itself all day long. The actual resident program is only 44 bytes long, but its effective length is 112 bytes. It's slow, but it's real honest-to-gosh expanded memory. As for Flash, I just heard him shout: "Hey! If a guy has TWO cassettes running simultaneously, one playing and one recording, the computer could be pulling data off the first one, modifying it, and rewriting it on the second one!" I'm going out for a drink! [Note: Use of the selective load characteristic of the original Bally BASIC is not supported in Astro BASIC, so, as written, this article would not work for Astro BASIC.] -- From Astrocade newsletter Cursor, Vol. II, Page 67 (October 1980) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From jwkrych@n... Fri Jan 11 19:42:51 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 12 Jan 2002 03:42:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 18287 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2002 03:42:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2002 03:42:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.70) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2002 03:42:49 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.37] by n20.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2002 03:33:59 -0000 Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 03:42:47 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Some thoughts Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2372 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 24.50.231.253 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Hi All! Been busy! Got a Devastator customer to take care of! BTW: The February issue of Maximum PC has a Devastator review in it! PC Gamer should be next, not certain which month. Okay! Excellent job Tony on your information on the chips! Obviously, more than extra memory is needed. I would have loved to have seen a picture of the insides of the Perkin machine that allowed high-res (commercial mode)! They had very good technical knowledge to do it, but the logistics of it were very prohibitive! Certainly it CAN be done, but like the A/V mods for the 2600 and 7800, it's not for the faint of heart. The only way is to have a mobo replacement, or what I described earlier about and FPGA card for the PC. I think that a down and dirty 32K SRAM mini-board that fits on the back and draws some voltage from the light pen port should do fine-a 74HCT138 and a low-power 32K SRAM. This would be decoded to start at 6000 hex, and work up there. That basically covers any compatibility issues. And, the boards could be made very inexpensively. Tony, I was with Mike White when we played with the memory expansion that was able to disable the onboard RAM chips, and allowed decoding of memory to start at 4000 hex. We did get a picture, but something was really wrong in River City, as all collision detection and such was gone. And, some carts wouldn't even work. This would make for a great April Fols joke: Get a composite video signal from a PC running MAME and W.O.W., have that go into the BPA, and come back out through that nasty RF modulator. Have an expansion memory system behind the BPA, and a dummy cart labled like it was a long-lost prototype that Ward got that Mike White never heard of that Adam was able to get from Jamie who had no clue as to who wrote it! And simply have a picture of the whole setup and entitle it "It Was Possible!!!" However, on a more serious note, there was serious talk about having a TMS9918A VDP with 16K, for screen RAM, running on the BPA through the back and being fed back in. And, that ZGRASS prototype that was shown around was actually a UV-1 made to operate in just consumer mode. So, what we would be doing is similar, with just more modern equipment. So, there is a "way" to have high-res on a stock BPA. As one Jedi said to another, depending on a certain point of view!!! Jim From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Mon Jan 14 16:04:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4112 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 00:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2002 00:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.81) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 00:04:29 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [216.115.97.81] by n31.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2002 00:04:23 -0000 Date: 15 Jan 2002 00:04:22 -0000 Message-ID: <1011053062.4352.88807.w111@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /astrocade_reviews.txt Uploaded by : atrionfo Description : Astrocade Review Compilation "The Game Player" ver. 10 You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/astrocade_reviews.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, atrionfo From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Mon Jan 14 16:06:00 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 81539 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 00:05:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2002 00:05:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.74) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 00:05:59 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [216.115.96.135] by n24.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2002 00:05:59 -0000 Date: 15 Jan 2002 00:05:54 -0000 Message-ID: <1011053154.3623.75370.w49@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /andy_guevara.rtf Uploaded by : atrionfo Description : Astrocade ML Programming Tutorial (RTF) You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/andy_guevara.rtf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, atrionfo From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Mon Jan 14 16:07:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 77846 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 00:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2002 00:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.62) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 00:07:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [216.115.96.133] by n12.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2002 00:07:01 -0000 Date: 15 Jan 2002 00:06:57 -0000 Message-ID: <1011053217.2162.21669.w47@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /andy_guevara.txt Uploaded by : atrionfo Description : Astrocade ML Programming Tutorial (txt) You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/andy_guevara.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, atrionfo From jwkrych@n... Mon Jan 14 17:45:34 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 15 Jan 2002 01:45:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 53825 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 01:45:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2002 01:45:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.78) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 01:45:33 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.170] by n28.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2002 01:45:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:45:27 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Okay Tony, now what??? Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 303 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 24.50.231.253 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Okay Tony! How do we get the medium res mode, 160 x 204????? This mode can be found in the Perkin hack, Arcadian volume 3 pages 62-63, description, and page 94 for the ad. How do we do this and does it need the shifter? BTW: kit cost $250 and it was $350 assembled by Mr. Perkins. Regards, Jim From fmillera@p... Mon Jan 14 19:10:03 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 15 Jan 2002 03:10:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 25203 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 03:10:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2002 03:10:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.55) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 03:10:01 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.142] by n5.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2002 03:10:01 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 03:09:59 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Okay Tony, now what??? Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 459 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "tonymillerus" X-Originating-IP: 63.199.241.246 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --- In ballyalley@y..., "centurion030" wrote: > Okay Tony! > > How do we get the medium res mode, 160 x 204????? This mode can be > found in the Perkin hack, Arcadian volume 3 pages 62-63, description, > and page 94 for the ad. How do we do this and does it need the > shifter? BTW: kit cost $250 and it was $350 assembled by Mr. Perkins. > > Regards, > > Jim Okay Jim, point to where I can find this and I'll look at it. Tony Miller From zeke1312@a... Tue Jan 15 07:27:52 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: zeke1312@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 15 Jan 2002 15:27:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 55909 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 15:27:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2002 15:27:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.51) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 15:27:51 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.24] by n1.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2002 15:27:50 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:27:49 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Heat Problems Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 881 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "zeke1312" X-Originating-IP: 152.163.204.73 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=82530073 X-Yahoo-Profile: zeke1312 I just joined this group so what I have to say may be old news. In 1977, I ordered a Bally Home Library Computer. After several months I received a unit which failed after a couple hours of use. When I received the 2nd unit a couple of months later, I took the case off and found a clam shell type RF shield which I removed from the unit. I turned on the unit and found the 3 hottest ICs and super glued a small heat sink to each. No problems after that. I later added the Bally Basic and tape interface. In the early eighties I slod the BHLC and bought a Commodore 64. I still have some Bally literature and Commodore cartridges. I thought I'd pass on the heat problem/resolution which I ran across in 1978. Incidently, I think one of the problems regarding the delayed release of the initial BHLC was meeting FCC requirements and subsequent heat problems(?) From ballyalley@h... Fri Jan 18 18:13:27 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 19 Jan 2002 02:13:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 31582 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 02:13:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2002 02:13:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.70) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 02:13:25 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:13:25 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 02:13:25 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Bally ROM source available (part 1), ver. 1.0) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:13:25 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jan 2002 02:13:25.0561 (UTC) FILETIME=[E083AA90:01C1A08E] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Assembling the Bally ROM Source Code Lance Squire and I have been working on the Bally source/header/assembler-choice project and there is finally something to show for it. The ROM source is far from finished, but it is a start, and I've uploaded it. It contains the complete header file and is enough to give anyone a good taste of what it takes to program the Astrocade. When it is finished, in conjuction with the 'Nutting manual,' this is the information that was used for cartridge creation. Currently the assembly listing file is full of 'Undeclared' errors. When all of the source is typed-in, these will vanish (references are made to labels that don't exist yet). I'm leaving the few others types of errors until all the source is re-typed (help needed). To compile the ROM you need the preferred Z-80 assembler (Zmac) and the assembly source file (BallyROM.asm). Both of these files can be found in the discussion group area and are called: * BallyROM.zip (includes ballyequ.asm) * zmac_dos.zip (includes zmac.exe for DOS) The ROM file contains the equates and macros that the Bally ROM requires for assembly (the header file is available separately too). This file has been written to assemble with ZMAC 1.3 (a little known, freely distributable Z-80 assembler (with C source), that has a 25-year history. ZMAC can be compiled under just about any O.S. in existence, so try it out. The ROM source listed in the 'Nutting Manual' will not assemble directly under Zmac (or any other assembler that Lance Square and I could find). Only minimal changes need to be made to the source as listed, but it is important to note that this source file is not exactly the same; if you notice differences, leave them alone for now and don't send me email that lets me know about these small differences. To assemble your Z-80 source code using ZMAC: zmac -d -o -x For example, assemble this Astrocade Z-80 ROM file: zmac -d -o BallyROM.bin -x BallyROM.lst BallyROM.asm The resulting assembly listing (BallyROM.lst) will have errors and can not, at this time, be expected to be used as the ROM. The best way to view the listing in your word processor/editor is with top and bottom margins set to 6 and left/right margins set to 8. -- Adam Trionfo, January 18, 2002 _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From ward.shrake@w... Sat Jan 19 18:47:05 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 20 Jan 2002 02:47:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 57275 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 02:47:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2002 02:47:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.76) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 02:47:05 -0000 Received: from [216.115.97.81] by n26.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2002 02:36:01 -0000 Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 02:47:04 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Various announcements and comments Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3281 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.156 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan A few Bally-related announcements... (1) I've been talking to Frank Palazzolo, off and on for years now. (He is the Astrocade's emulator author, in the MESS software emulator.) In my last communication with him, he asked me to pass this on... "If anyone else you know has time to test these, I'd encourage them to use the bugzilla link on the www.mess.org homepage to log any problems. Myself or someone else will get around to fixing these eventually." This was in reference to all of the new ROM images that were archived semi-recently (in the last few months), and the MESS software emulator. If anyone uses both the MESS emu and a real system enough to have bug reports, now you know where to send them, to help improve the state of the Bally's emulation efforts. (Doing so is very important, to be able to develop code using emus.) (2) I also mentioned to Frank Palazzolo that it would be nice to have a new feature built into the MESS emulator for the Bally, that would allow you to load a hybrid tape/cart image, then AstroBASIC or Blue RAM BASIC right after it. He thought that was a good idea. There was no reason for this, before, but thanks to guys like Mike White who can and have converted BASIC games on tape to carts, there is now. (3) I used to have all of the ROM images for the Bally machine up on the Internet, in a semi-private place. I'm sorry, but I had to take them all down. This was due to an abundance of caution on my part, in response to an e-mail from my web site hosts ("ClassicGaming.com") that asked all of their hosted sites to get rid of anything that might be considered questionable, or risk various nasty things up to and including being kicked off of their servers. I didn't like having to take the ROMs down, but felt I had no real choice in the matter. I had done all I could, before, to keep things quietly available to the true hardcore fans of the Bally system, but the e-mail they sent out to all hosted sites specifically broke things down in such lawyerly detail that even storage of anything questionable is now forbidden. (They've been slowly tending in this general direction for many months. They just now made a firm and final decision on the matter.) (4) On the subject of ROM images... people may wonder why there are not more ROM images up on ClassicGaming.com's "Game Vault" section. That also was a choice primarily made by others, and not by me. With the Emerson Arcadia 2001 system, I had submitted everything that I had archived, as I archived it. The choice not to post anything new -- going back for many months -- was solely their decision, and not mine. I respect that, and am not moaning about it; I just want to be clear on whose decision it was, lest anyone think I am withholding stuff. With the Bally stuff, Adam Trionfo is hoping to have most of the ROM images "legal-ized" over time, so he has asked me not to go nuts releasing stuff publicly. Again, I respect that decision, and wish Adam more success in getting that admirable goal accomplished. (5) If Larry Anderson is reading this, please e-mail me (Ward) with your newest e-mail address. The one I have now just bounces stuff. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Sun Jan 20 18:51:06 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 21 Jan 2002 02:51:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 47764 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 02:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2002 02:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.52) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 02:51:05 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.50] by n2.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2002 02:51:04 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 02:51:04 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Comments on controllers Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1223 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.219 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan Silly question... in all of the "let's make new hardware and software" type discussions, has anyone mentioned the idea of perhaps hooking a light gun up to the system? Perhaps I'm over-simplifying things -- apologies in advance, if I am -- but there is a light pen port already installed in the Bally system. Has anyone considered wiring up either a Nintendo NES gun, or a Sega Master System gun to the Bally? (Sounds like one more wild scheme to throw into the mix?) Also, for what it is worth, I broke open a few of the paddle controllers for the Atari 2600 machine, and measured the resistance of the potentiometer inside. It claims to be a "one meg ohm" resistor on the casing, but if it is, the tolerances are pretty high -- 20% plus. I measured as high as 970k ohms, and as low as 772k ohms, on the ones I checked. (From end to end, ignoring the moving wiper.) What that means to me is that trying to adapt the paddle function, from one system to the other, is going to be very impractical if not downright impossible. (The Bally wants a max of 50,000 ohms of resistance, and the Atari expects 1,000,000 ohms of resistance.) Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Mon Jan 21 17:38:41 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 22 Jan 2002 01:38:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 8281 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 01:38:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2002 01:38:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.128) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 01:38:39 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:38:38 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 01:38:38 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Finished - Astrocade Game Reviews Compilation Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:38:38 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2002 01:38:38.0898 (UTC) FILETIME=[84016920:01C1A2E5] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo January 21, 2002 The "Astrocade Game Reviews Compilation," featuring all twenty-one "Game Player" columns from the Arcadian newsletter, is finished. The file "astrocade_reviews.zip" can be downloaded in the Astrocade Discussion Group download area. These columns cover 1983 and 1984, the period that produced some of the most difficult to find software for the Astrocade. Here, to whet your appetite, is the last column of the "Game Player" by Michael Prosise. This piece will give you a taste of some of the others columns, and it really sets the tone for the year it was written: 1984. Michael's last column is a game player's voice from the videogame crash written during it's 1984 downfall, when no one knew exactly what was going on or if games would even be played anymore. Adam Trionfo >From "The Game Player," #21 (Arcadian Vol. 6, pg. 117, October 31, 1984): As the 1983-84 volume of the Arcadian comes to a close and as it is about to enter its seventh year of publication, it is an appropriate time to glance back at the past year's game reviews, some significant events in gaming, and examine what appears to be an alarming and ominous trend in the videogame industry, including and most importantly those software manufacturers who create and sell games for the Astrocade system. It was just over a year ago that the software market had an historic first, when Esoterica Ltd. released TREASURE COVE, the first privately produced cartridge game for the Astrocade system. At a time when Astrocade had not released a new cartridge in over a year, the news of this action by Esoterica was the most exciting and significant event since the "new" ASTROCADE BASIC cartridge hit the scene. The release of TREASURE COVE represented an important change for Astrocade owners. They hopefully would no longer have to depend on Astrocade as a sole source of cartridge games, a most significant factor since the Astrocade company was having serious difficulty surviving. (See "Video Game Death..." Vol.5, No. 1, Pg. 3). Even today the future of Astrocade remains uncertain, and in the light of the current state of the home videogame computer industry, do not be surprised if you never see another cartridge from the Astrocade people again. Esoterica later went on to release a cartridge titled BLASTDROIDS, which, along with TREASURE COVE, were never submitted for review. The Esoterica people have recently announced that both of these cartridges will no longer be available, a sign of an unfortunate trend that may be spreading to their companies. Soon after the Esoterica cartridges, L&M Software released its first cartridge, MS. CANDYMAN, (Vol. 6, No. 1) an instant success for L&M and still one of the finest cartridge games to ever be made for the Astrocade system. It featured very high resolution and extremely colorful graphics, along with an outstanding musical score. Eventually, the year 1984 would see three more software manufacturers enter the cartridge game scene, with all but one being established companies who all had been producing games on tape cassettes. New Image gave us a cartridge called SNEAKY SNAKE, (Vol. 6. No. 10) a colorful underwater action game similar in concept to Astrocade's COSMIC RAIDERS, produced by Bit Fiddlers and distributed by L&M Software. Finally, and most recently, a cartridge titled MAZEMAN was put on sale by a new-comer to the marketing scene, Dave Carson, a longtime subscriber and contributor to the Arcadian. Although GAME PLAYER has received numerous letters requesting recommendations on MAZEMAN, we have not had a cartridge made available for review. As with any product that is purchased "sight unseen," we can only suggest the old adage "buyer beware." The total number of privately produced cartridge games currently available stands at seven, including the MUNCHER cartridge, which probably is the most popular game played on the Astrocade system. There is a very interesting history and story behind how this cartridge came to be, but I am afraid we are not yet at liberty to comment. (Rumor has it that the MUNCHER cartridge, was discovered at an abandoned science outpost on Omicron Ceti II by a landing party from the USS Starship Enterprise. Later, during a research mission via a space-time warp to study 1984 Earth cultures, the cartridge was accidentally beamed down and subsequently lost somewhere in San Jose, California.) The past year also saw the emergence of two new software manufacturers, specializing in taped cassettes. A company in Canada calling itself Astrogames released a four-game tape cassette simply called Tape A-1 (Vol. 6 No.1). It was and is a nice collection of games, especially at a price of only nine dollars. Later, Astrogames would release Tape A-2, (Vol. 6 No. 5) containing the games NIGHT BOMBERS and ADVENTURE, the latter of which is particularly interesting, being similar in concept to the popular Atari game PITFALL. In May, Fred Rodney Educational Software entered the market, releasing a tape cassette titled MORSE CODE TRAINER (Vol. 6 No. 4), an excellent tutorial of the "Code." His next release was ASTRO ANALYST and MEMOMAX (Vol. 6 No. 8, both), two cute brain teasers. This past year has been an optimistic one for game players everywhere in terms of new cartridges and new manufacturers. But this writer fears dark clouds may be in the distance for all who enjoy playing games on the Astrocade system. As one who reviews new games, I am always striving to stay well informed of what's happening in the area of soon-to-be-released products and games for the Astrocade. In doing so, I have noticed a trend that has me concerned. The number of games, both cartridge and tape, that have been released in the last six months, was zero. Prior to that, Fred Rodney released four tape programs, Dave Carson put out a cartridge, his first, and Astrogames produced a couple of tapes. Early in the year we saw SEA DEVIL and SNEAKY SNAKE. Granted, the summer is generally slower. But there are some facts that cannot be ignored. Remember Wavemakers, the company that produces one of the best line of tape games? No new games for over a year. Wavemakers had been producing one new game about every two to three months. And then there's the other "biggie," L&M Software. Nothing from them either for a year, not since the MS. CANDYMAN cartridge (although they did distribute Bit Fiddler's SEA DEVIL cartridge). They, too, had been averaging about four to five new releases per year. Most recently was the announcement that Esoterica Ltd. would no longer be making the BLASTDROIDS and TREASURE COVE cartridges. Why? And whatever happened to Tiny Arcade, Edge Software and the George Moses Co.? All, at one time, were major producers of Astrocade games, and all of whom have not been heard from in well over two years. I cannot give you a good or satisfactory answer. I can, however, point out that profits from videogame Arcades across the nation are down 50 percent and that a number of videogame trade magazines have folded. In my area, Washington, D.C., I can name more Arcades that have recently closed than I can those that are still in business. The key question then, is, are videogames a fad that is now passing? Industry-wide, the answer seems to be, Yes. How will this affect the Arcadian and the companies that have been making games for the Astrocade? Has the Astrocade system taken its last breath? -- Game Player [Michael Prosise] _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Mon Jan 21 17:45:11 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 22 Jan 2002 01:45:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 57214 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 01:45:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2002 01:45:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.123) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 01:45:10 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:45:10 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 01:45:10 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Game Player Reviews - Alphabetical List Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:45:10 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2002 01:45:10.0867 (UTC) FILETIME=[6DA32230:01C1A2E6] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Alphabetical List of all reviewed games in the "Game Player" columns: Title Format Company Column ----- ------ ------- ------ Adventure Tape Astrogames GP#17 Astro Analyst Tape Educational Software Systems GP#19 Astro Terror Tape The Tiny Arcade GP#2 Candy Man Tape L&M Software GP#4 Castle of Horror Tape Wavemakers GP#1 Caterpillar Tape H.A.R.D. Software GP#4 Collision Course Tape Wavemakers GP#9 Cosmic Raiders Cartridge Astrocade GP#15 Defense Professional Tape Astrogames GP#13 Dungeons of Dracula Tape Wavemakers GP#3 Exitor's Revenge Tape L&M Software GP#3 Flying Ace Tape Wavemakers GP#14 Galactic Hitchhiker Tape H.A.R.D. Software GP#4 Gamma Wars Tape Tiny Arcade GP#8 L.T. Tape Wavemakers GP#7 Lost in Space Tape Edge Software GP#5 Memomax Tape Educational Software Systems GP#19 Metro Attack Tape Astrogames GP#13 Micro Pac Tape H.A.R.D. Software GP#4 Morse Code Trainer Tape Educational Softwear Designs GP#18 Ms. Candyman Cartridge L&M Software GP#13 Music Tape George Moses Co. GP#6 Nam-Cap Tape New Image GP#5 Nautilus Tape L&M Software GP#8 Night Bombers Tape Astrogames GP#17 Omega Valley Tape The Tiny Arcade GP#2 Paper Chase, The Tape H.A.R.D. Software GP#4 Peter Piper Tape Astrogames GP#13 Road Toad Tape Esoterica, Ltd. GP#7 Sea Devil Cartridge Bit Fiddlers GP#20 Secret of Pellucitar Tape L&M Software GP#6 Sneaky Snake Cartridge New Image GP#16 Solar Conqueror Cartridge Astrocade GP#12 Super Pac Tape Astrogames GP#13 Super Slope Tape Esoterica, Inc. GP#9 The Gate Escape Tape Wavemakers GP#11 Tic Tac Tollah Tape H.A.R.D. Software GP#4 Vindicator Tape The Tiny Arcade GP#11 Wah's Revenge Tape Astrogames GP#13 _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From ward.shrake@w... Wed Jan 23 11:32:53 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 23 Jan 2002 19:32:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 91257 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 19:32:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2002 19:32:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.71) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 19:32:51 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.129] by n21.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jan 2002 19:19:41 -0000 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:31:07 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: If you want a multicart, please say so now Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5137 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.3 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan If anyone out there is interested in ordering one of the Multicarts I am currently making for the Bally Astrocade system, now is a great time to do so. I just finished the fourth small batch of hand-made carts, and am about to start a fifth batch. I'm taking orders now. (These are made-to-order, not mass produced and then sold later.) For those tracking privately-produced items... my one-man assembly line has produced twenty-two (22) Bally-compatible multicarts, and sixteen (16) Emerson Arcadia 2001 compatible multicarts so far. You can read message #512 to see some typical customer feedback. To date, everyone that has commented to me privately was very happy. I have not heard any complaints from people that purchased a multicart. That's the good news. Here's the not-so-good news.... I hate to say it, but new orders already seem to be dwindling. I read message #538 with its gloomy, frightened outlook on 1984's possible future, and I had to admit to myself that I knew that bad feeling. I too am wondering how much longer things will last, before drying up? I don't like pressuring anyone to buy things, but I am sort of forced to at this point. I'd like to keep making these, as long as I can, but a simple economic "reality check" seems necessary to point out... the more money I'm making from sales of any item, the more time and effort I can justify to continue to make more of them. And vice- versa... if nearly no one wants to pay me to make more of them, then I have to first slow my pace down, and then find something else to do. The Emerson multicart was never as popular as the Bally cart was; I expected that, as did everyone else. That just reflects more interest in the Bally system, among retrogamers and collectors, and is not at all surprising. But to find myself struggling to find new customers for a totally hand-made, individually numbered item for the Bally system, after fewer than 25 sales? Wow. I hoped I would be up to about double that, before the pace of new orders began dropping off? I hope I'm wrong, but it seems to me that if something like a nice 512k multicart with pretty much every one of the old cartridge game programs for this system (and quite a few of the better tape games) isn't even a lukewarm sales item, then the chance of seeing much more new stuff produced by others for this system isn't exactly stellar? (I don't want to discourage any new efforts; I hope interest remains. I just want any other homebrewers aware of the financial realities.) As I said in my Multicart FAQ, I will keep making these items as long as I can justify the time and effort and cost associated with them. I do want to see them in the hands of many people who will enjoy having them, and playing the cool games that were made for this old system. It was easy to justify, the last couple of months; all of the people that badly wanted one, had their orders filled then. Now I'm dealing with people that claim they are interested, but have no money to pay me, about 50% of the time. Once that kind of thing is all the demand that exists, then I will definitely be spending my free time on other things; the reality of my monthly bills will give me no other choice. Some people have asked me "what new projects will you be doing next" and to that, I really have no immediate answer. I'm not at all sorry that I did this project. I'm not moaning about it, at all! It helped to pay my rent and bills for a couple of months, and for a struggling actor, that's a very big motivation to keep going with any project. But I now have a better idea of how many sales I can get for a given item, and how much time and money I'll have to invest up front to get it. I have already politely turned down requests from fans of the RCA Studio II and Fairchild Channel F systems, to make them a multicart. I can't justify the effort it would take, or the money, to do either. I am not interested in those systems, and I doubt many others are. I will leave it to others, to supply the market for those two items. I have often given thought to a VIC-20 multicart, and have a limited one mostly prototyped... but it may never go into "production". It may end up just being an item that I play with, in my own collection. It might even be more popular than the Bally, but issues of cost and technical complexity (it would take four times the memory capacity) may kill that possible project off, more or less before it begins. I had a few more ideas for other possible game-related projects, but it is just as likely that I'll end up simply taking a part-time job to come up with the money that I need to supplement my acting income. Sorry for the "doom and gloom" stuff, but I'm just trying to be open and honest. If people are waiting to buy a multicart, thinking they will be available "forever" then they're risking being a "have not". The sales peak appears to have been reached already, and the slide downwards has already begun. Better get 'em now, or regret it later. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From komb@s... Wed Jan 23 20:03:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 04:03:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 59449 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 04:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 04:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.54) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 04:03:19 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.248.94]) by tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020124040318.JGXM4302.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:03:18 -0500 Message-ID: <3C4F8780.4020604@s...> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:03:12 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.5) Gecko/20011014 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] If you want a multicart, please say so now References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian commie_fan wrote: > If anyone out there is interested in ordering one of the Multicarts I > am currently making for the Bally Astrocade system, now is a great > time to do so. I just finished the fourth small batch of hand-made > carts, and am about to start a fifth batch. I'm taking orders now. > (These are made-to-order, not mass produced and then sold later.) > I hate to say it, but this is a rather small forum to sell to. In watching Bally/Astrocade sales on eBay et al. I'm convinced there's a larger Collecting group of our system than is represented here. Have you tried rec.games.video.classic? (If you have please disreguard.) There's always eBay...:) From ward.shrake@w... Wed Jan 23 21:06:31 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 05:06:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 97881 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 05:06:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 05:06:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.59) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 05:06:30 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.163] by n9.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2002 05:06:29 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 05:06:25 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: If you want a multicart, please say so now Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3C4F8780.4020604@s...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4118 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.32 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Lance F. Squire" wrote: > > I hate to say it, but this is a rather small forum to sell to. Agreed. My post was meant to inform, as much as to promote new sales. Lots of discussions go on, about this project or that. I just don't want people thinking they can sell hundreds of their new gizmo, when my own experience indicates that a few dozen sales is more likely. I am sure more sales will trickle in over time... but not too many more. At first, I was struggling just to meet the demand. Six months later, I'm struggling to find people with both interest and money. I don't like painting a too-rosy picture; I prefer to paint what I see. > There's always eBay...:) No offense, but there's always "read the FAQ" too. I explained there in excellent detail, just why that is not a viable option. Not least among the reasons is the idea that it goes against eBay's own rules. Having been an active archivist and historian for years now, I feel like I'm always walking a very fine line. There comes a point where I'm not morally comfortable with doing more than I've already done, and that point is selling someone else's copyrighted code on eBay. It may be a fine distinction, but to me, it's still an important one. I'm actually a bit surprised at the hidden implication behind both of Lance's comments... to say this is a small forum, tends to imply that it may be a waste of time to post here. To push me towards eBay seems to imply that I'm wasting my time, dealing with 'true fans' of the system, when I could just be selling out to the highest bidder. I'm sure that wasn't intended, but the implication is there nonetheless? If I agreed with those premises, I'd abandon all non-modern games. Like I said before, I'm not sorry I did what I did. I'm glad. But I cannot ignore the financial realities of the situation much longer than I have already, and I feel that advance warning is much needed. It's just part of the "good communication" that any project requires. I've been working on my two multicart projects, pretty much full- time, since August of 2001 or before. I can't justify another six months of my life for thirty-eight sales of a hundred dollar item. I'm sure I will have a few more sales, over time? But since I have bills due each month, I'd rather get as many multicarts done at once as I could, hence my telling folks that now is the time, if they want one. Right now I have time available. Next month? Who knows... I don't? This is not a gimmick... my life is just that unpredictable. Please understand: the underlying premise that made this all possible in the first place, is incredibly fragile. Success in some other area of my life could kill the whole project, overnight. Failure in any area of my financial life would also kill the project, overnight. The tiny little window of opportunity in the middle that allows this project to go on, revolves around me finding enough new orders each month to pay my bills, since my 'day job' as an actor is equivalent to unemployment. (Actually, that would be a financial improvement.) For two months I managed to keep things afloat, with this project. I just don't see that lasting much longer? And since it takes a nearly full-time effort to keep this going, significant future change is inevitable. It took me six months of constant effort to pay my bills for two months. Who among you could afford to do that, for very long? I can't, and unfortunately my maxxed-out credit cards can prove it. The project is not over. I'll keep making these things, as long as I can. (Future sales will help knock that debt back down.) But the six- month period where I had all sorts of time on my hands -- due to all of Hollywood being all but dead -- has ended. This project just shifted its gears, from being a 'full-time' project to an 'as needed' project. I want people to be aware of the shift, and to begin to act accordingly. Get 'em while the gettin's good... Ward "Struggling Actor" Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Thu Jan 24 11:11:36 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 19:11:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 32368 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 19:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 19:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.62) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 19:11:35 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.45] by n12.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2002 19:11:35 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:11:32 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: eBay insanity and DPCG 7.0 Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1958 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.217 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan Is it just me, or are some of the recent auctions being held on eBay just completely insane? After reading a new posting that was selling a thirty-year old Bally system as "new" with a starting bid over $600 USD, I just had to say something to somebody. That's mind-blowing?! I can't believe the amount of people that are paying $40 and $60 for allegedly rare cartridge items that were not even pictured, not very long ago. To me, they all sounded a LOT like carts that Mike White had made, and that he still sells to anyone who has $10 to send him? Am I the only person that has noticed that sort of thing on eBay? I realize I'm basically a cheap blankety-blank, but this seems nuts?! Here's an idea... if you know of someone that thinks they HAVE to pay $40 per cartridge to build a collection, just point them towards my multicart FAQ. I'd love the new business, and I'm sure at least a few people would be grateful to not have to mortgage their homes just to be able to have a decent amount of games for their Astrocades? It would not hurt to have a few new members reading these boards, either. At the very least, I'll be darned glad to see an updated section in the upcoming version 7.0 of the "Digital Press Collectors Guide". The outdated information found in version 6.0 and previous, has gotta go! With all the info Mike White (and others) have to offer, I'm hoping to see a MASSIVE update to that part of the guide? Too often I see misguided eBay sellers and buyers, paying $$$ for non-rare carts, or mass-produced carts like "Muncher" being sold as rare prototypes. I'm not saying anyone's doing it on purpose, but it shouldn't be taking place at all, in my opinion. A better guide section would help, lots. Larry Anderson, if you're reading this, send me your current e-mail address... I'd like to add what I could, but e-mail to you bounces. Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Thu Jan 24 11:21:41 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 19:21:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 17667 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 19:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 19:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.77) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 19:21:40 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.143] by n27.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2002 19:21:40 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:21:35 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Mike White's cart-building service Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1451 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.217 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan I thought I'd take a minute to plug Mike White's cart-building service, for anyone that doesn't already know about it. For $10 or so, he will build you a single cartridge of pretty much anything ever made for the Bally system. He has a 5-page catalog, online, on Adam Trionfo's "Bally Alley" web site, of what he can make available. If you only want a certain game, that's the way to go, in my opinion. Adam's web site: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/ Just click on the "Ads and Catalogs" button, then scroll all the way down. You'll see "Michael White's Catalog". Click on that link, and a whole new world of cheap and accessible software becomes available. On a related note... Adam asked me if I was going to stop working on a project that I may or may not have announced here, some time ago. (I don't recall if I did or not; I may have.) Anyway, it was about my designing a simple and cheap circuit board that Mike White could use to keep his service going when his stock of circuit boards runs out. It would also be useful to anyone wanting to make a homebrew cart of their own, once they'd written some cool new software to show off. I just want to say that project is "still alive," albeit on my usual stack of other things to do. I'll get to it again, eventually. (I had a board design roughed out, but never actually etched a prototype.) Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Thu Jan 24 14:34:53 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 22:34:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 13721 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 22:34:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 22:34:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.178) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 22:34:49 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:34:49 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:34:49 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] eBay insanity and DPCG 7.0 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:34:49 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2002 22:34:49.0801 (UTC) FILETIME=[55640390:01C1A527] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo As to Mike's carts selling on ebay- it is true, and has been happening ever since his service became availanble. I mentioned this to him late in the Summer, but he wasn't bothered by it. It DOES bother me. What needs to happen about the 7.0 version of the DP Collector's Guide is a HUGE adjustment of the Astrocade area. This won't do anything for ebay buyers though. I've given up on that. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Thu Jan 24 14:35:42 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 22:35:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 81327 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 22:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 22:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.89) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 22:35:42 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:35:42 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:35:41 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Working Astrocades Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:35:41 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2002 22:35:42.0149 (UTC) FILETIME=[7497AF50:01C1A527] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo How many people have Astrocades that DO work? I have three, and none of them are working right. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Thu Jan 24 14:40:58 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 22:40:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 79343 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 22:40:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 22:40:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.159) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 22:40:57 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:40:57 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:40:57 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: AstroWAV? Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:40:57 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2002 22:40:57.0491 (UTC) FILETIME=[308D0E30:01C1A528] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Any progress on AstroWAV? Adam _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From komb@s... Thu Jan 24 17:48:05 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 01:48:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 85020 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 01:48:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 01:48:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.73) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 01:48:04 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.249.49]) by tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020125014803.SUPO10563.tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:48:03 -0500 Message-ID: <3C50B94B.2050306@s...> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:47:55 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20020104 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] eBay insanity and DPCG 7.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian That guy selling the Astrovision-box/Bally Pro arcade-label system for $600+ is N U T S !!! :) He won't get it. (Though I could be wrong.) New boxed units are not nearly as rare as he thinks! I'm sure I saw one on there Nov/Dec at a reasonable price. Ebay is totaly a buyer-beware zone! If you don't know what it should cost, you WILL pay too much! However good bargans can be had....IF you're lucky. BTW, Got to witness a dead company(Name?) auction recently. I coulden't beleave that people were biding new & better prices for used computers & monitors! Insane! From komb@s... Thu Jan 24 17:55:03 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 01:55:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 17791 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 01:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 01:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.35) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 01:55:02 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.249.49]) by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020125015502.LNVJ29652.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:55:02 -0500 Message-ID: <3C50BAEF.5060605@s...> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:54:55 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20020104 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Working Astrocades References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo wrote: > How many people have Astrocades that DO work? I have three, and none of > them are working right. > I have 2*. One is my 'New' main unit (with box & all). The other is my Original. *The Original has a dead memory bit. Fortunetly for BASIC it's in a graphic bit. Causes problems/exploits in some games. Won't part with either at this point though. From komb@s... Thu Jan 24 17:59:06 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 01:59:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 74403 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 01:59:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 01:59:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.35) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 01:59:05 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.249.49]) by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020125015905.LQRL29652.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:59:05 -0500 Message-ID: <3C50BBE2.5070502@s...> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:58:58 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20020104 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] AstroWAV? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo wrote: > Any progress on AstroWAV? > > Adam That reminds me, I was working on the text to bas/bin(What ever)file, but got stuck on an efficient way to convert a single byte to 2 bytes odd(or even) bits.... I could do it the long way, but that would just suck! :( Lance From komb@s... Thu Jan 24 18:09:12 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 02:09:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 44087 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 02:09:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 02:09:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.73) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 02:09:11 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.249.49]) by tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020125020910.TGMD10563.tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:09:10 -0500 Message-ID: <3C50BE3F.3020705@s...> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:09:03 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20020104 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: If you want a multicart, please say so now References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian My only intent was to point out that it's hard to get 50+ sales from a group with 48 members. :) You will have to look further abroad. However I would Also like to say I think this is only a subset of the total Bally/Astrocade base. (Only Those dedicated enough to seek out & hunt down other sites, information & people related to the Bally/Astrocade. ;)) Proud to be in you presence! Lance F. Squire From komb@s... Thu Jan 24 19:43:22 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 03:43:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 56233 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 03:43:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 03:43:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.55) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 03:43:21 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.249.49]) by tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020125034320.QTWC25654.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:43:20 -0500 Message-ID: <3C50D452.4020806@s...> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:43:14 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20020104 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] eBay insanity and DPCG 7.0 References: <3C50B94B.2050306@s...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Lance F. Squire wrote: > That guy selling the Astrovision-box/Bally Pro arcade-label system for > $600+ is N U T S !!! :) > OOPS! Computer System label. Even more common in this condition. From jwkrych@n... Thu Jan 24 20:17:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 04:17:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 57848 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 04:17:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 04:17:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.72) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 04:17:43 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.145] by n22.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2002 04:17:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 04:17:40 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Internal memory expansion Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2093 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 24.50.231.253 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Hi all! I had been asking some other Z-80 hardware experts, and people at work for help in this. I can understand how a '138 can decode out 8 blocks of 8K for a 64K system-ours. I have seen designs with two '138s allowing for 1K decoding. What I want to do is this-Tony your help anytime! :) I want to have just a '138 and a 64K x 8 SRAM(cahce type) I want the memory to start at 6000H and continue for the rest of the available memory space, 40K left. In worst case, a regular 32K x 8 SRAM chip would do fine-only the last 8K would not be used. I know the use of a 64K x 8 cache SRAM leaves 24K unused, but that's okay-I want a single memory chip. What I am getting caught up on is the way to decode the areas wanted with one chip-and not 5 8K SRAM chips. I want this to be internal, and not needing to be placed on the outside, since there is no +5V on the expansion bus. Though, I could get it from the light-pen port. The parts will be of the HCT type, so my current drain will be very small. I have looked at the schematics of the BPA and have found that the only place for all my signals is the Z-80 itself. I looked at one of my spare BPAs-it's dead due to being on a carpeted surface! ;( And was hoping that the socketed chips-the custom ones, would have what I need. Well, NOT!!! I don't have a problem with de-soldering the Z-80 from the BPA and putting a nice 40-pin machine socket.(helps to work at a high-tech company!!!) I have excellent de-soldering stations to work with. A small circuit board with the '138 and the SRAM will sit in the socket, and the Z-80 on the top of the little daughter board. Either this or a small external board that draws from the light-pen port is what I conceive for a BPA simple memory board. Unless, we want a switch put in and an 8K EPROM(Blue RAM BASIC) that would reside at the 2000H space, cart area, and only would be activated with the switch, make darn sure no cart is in the port!!! Tell me what you think! Jim W. Krych p.s. Try out this site guys! http://www.roarvgm.com/images/devastator_9908.jpg From cybpunks@h... Fri Jan 25 09:50:45 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 17:50:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 4223 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 17:50:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 17:50:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.68) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 17:50:40 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.169] by n18.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2002 17:50:53 -0000 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:50:36 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Internal memory expansion Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 792 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "krishna.geo" X-Originating-IP: 4.33.175.247 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=61430873 X-Yahoo-Profile: krishna.geo I think it should be external with power either through the light pen or a separate A/C adapter. There may be problems drawing power from the light pen port as it would put strain on the stock Bally power supply. I hope you can complete a prototype as a proof of concept! --- In ballyalley@y..., "centurion030" wrote: Either this or a small external board that draws from the light-pen port is what I conceive for a BPA simple memory board. Unless, we want a switch put in and an 8K EPROM(Blue RAM BASIC) that would reside at the 2000H space, cart area, and only would be activated with the switch, make darn sure no cart is in the port!!! Tell me what you think! > > Jim W. Krych > p.s. Try out this site guys! > http://www.roarvgm.com/images/devastator_9908.jpg From ballyalley@h... Fri Jan 25 15:22:45 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 25 Jan 2002 23:22:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 71972 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 23:22:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2002 23:22:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.224) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 23:22:44 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:22:44 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:22:43 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Internal memory expansion Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:22:43 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jan 2002 23:22:44.0221 (UTC) FILETIME=[311772D0:01C1A5F7] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo I'm for EXTERNAL memory expansion with external power supply. I'm rehashing some of what I said earlier, but my specs are simple: 1) Emulate a cartridge (in a similar fashion to the Blue Ram?). 2) Some method to get data to the memory expander (serial, USB, audio, thought-waves; something). 3) Could hardware be used to switch screens quickly, like a buffer? Example: move data from the expansion device to screen memory to animate screens quickly. I don't have grand ideas; I'd just like to see a simple WORKING device that any user could use without the need to open the box. Adam _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From jwkrych@n... Fri Jan 25 16:46:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 26 Jan 2002 00:46:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 35679 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 00:46:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2002 00:46:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.56) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 00:46:19 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.158] by n6.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2002 00:46:18 -0000 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:46:15 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Internal memory and more Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 694 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 24.50.231.253 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Okay! We could do an external design, using an AC adaptor. That is no problem. We could use a 128K SRAM to allow full memory, plus have a possible space for a cart decoding-once the memory was loaded with the cart. I am not certain how screen RAM could be switched, now knowing the BPA works in this area. How to load rapidly from an outside source-perhaps Chad Schell can help in this. I will contact him. We could have an 8K EPROM decoded with a switch to reside at the 2000H space. Now, I also have a though to say, and one that benefits us immediately. How about a compiler for AstroBASIC, or Blue RAM Basic? Have it written on the PC and then send the code to the BPA? Jim From fmillera@p... Fri Jan 25 18:42:40 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 26 Jan 2002 02:42:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 18050 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 02:42:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2002 02:42:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta5.snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 02:42:39 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.149]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQI005Z1Y71A6@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:42:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:42:35 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Internal memory expansion In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020125184131.00aecf08@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_705724==_.ALT" References: From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_705724==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:50 PM 1/25/2002 +0000, you wrote: >I think it should be external with power either through the light pen >or a separate A/C adapter. There may be problems drawing power from >the light pen port as it would put strain on the stock Bally power >supply. Whole-heartedly agree! The power supply is already under-rated and over-taxed, much like our citizens! Cheers, Tony Miller >I hope you can complete a prototype as a proof of concept! > >--- In ballyalley@y..., "centurion030" wrote: >Either this or a small external board that draws from the light-pen >port is what I conceive for a BPA simple memory board. Unless, we >want a switch put in and an 8K EPROM(Blue RAM BASIC) that would >reside at the 2000H space, cart area, and only would be activated >with the switch, make darn sure no cart is in the port!!! > >Tell me what you think! > > > > > Jim W. Krych > > p.s. Try out this site guys! > > > http://www.roarvgm.com/ > images/devastator_9908.jpg > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_705724==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 05:50 PM 1/25/2002 +0000, you wrote:
I think it should be external with power either through the light pen
or a separate A/C adapter.  There may be problems drawing power from
the light pen port as it would put strain on the stock Bally power
supply.


Whole-heartedly agree!  The power supply is already under-rated and over-taxed, much like our citizens!

Cheers,

Tony Miller


I hope you can complete a prototype as a proof of concept!

--- In ballyalley@y..., "centurion030" <jwkrych@n...> wrote:
Either this or a small external board that draws from the light-pen
port is what I conceive for a BPA simple memory board. Unless, we
want a switch put in and an 8K EPROM(Blue RAM BASIC) that would
reside at the 2000H space, cart area, and only would be activated
with the switch, make darn sure no cart is in the port!!!

Tell me what you think!

>
> Jim W. Krych
> p.s. Try out this site guys!
> http://www.roarvgm.com/images/devastator_9908.jpg


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--=====================_705724==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Fri Jan 25 18:48:33 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 26 Jan 2002 02:48:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 27584 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 02:48:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2002 02:48:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta5.snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 02:48:33 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.149]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQI00DCBYGUG7@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:48:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:48:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Internal memory expansion In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020125184313.00add3f8@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1059062==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_1059062==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:22 PM 1/25/2002 -0800, you wrote: >I'm for EXTERNAL memory expansion with external power supply. I'm rehashing >some of what I said earlier, but my specs are simple: > >1) Emulate a cartridge (in a similar fashion to the Blue Ram?). > >2) Some method to get data to the memory expander (serial, USB, audio, >thought-waves; something). > >3) Could hardware be used to switch screens quickly, like a buffer? >Example: move data from the expansion device to screen memory to animate >screens quickly. > >I don't have grand ideas; I'd just like to see a simple WORKING device that >any user could use without the need to open the box. Some time ago I proposed an expansion thingy that would plug into a computer parallel port, for downloads, uploads, etc. Then everyone's computer could hold all the software, and be used as a development platform, with suitable software. The thingy would have a 64 K SRAM like currently being talked about. It would be fairly straightforward to add a DMA to transfer data to the screen as fast as the custom chips would allow. But why use BASIC (Beginner's Algorithm for Seeming Infinite Confusion)? How about something more modern, like C, C++, or as they say south of the border, Si? Cheers, Tony Miller >Adam > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: >http://photos.msn.com/support >/worldwide.aspx > > >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=919357/R=0/*http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?gloss >2+shopping:dmad/M=153641.1824646.3335993.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705006497:H >M/A=919357/R=1/1012000965+http://us.rm> > > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_1059062==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 03:22 PM 1/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
I'm for EXTERNAL memory expansion with external power supply.  I'm rehashing
some of what I said earlier, but my specs are simple:

1) Emulate a cartridge (in a similar fashion to the Blue Ram?).

2) Some method to get data to the memory expander (serial, USB, audio,
thought-waves; something).

3) Could hardware be used to switch screens quickly, like a buffer? 
Example: move data from the expansion device to screen memory to animate
screens quickly.

I don't have grand ideas; I'd just like to see a simple WORKING device that
any user could use without the need to open the box.

Some time ago I proposed an expansion thingy that would plug into a computer parallel port, for downloads, uploads, etc.  Then everyone's computer could hold all the software, and be used as a development platform, with suitable software.  The thingy would have a 64 K SRAM like currently being talked about.  It would be fairly straightforward to add a DMA to transfer data to the screen as fast as the custom chips would allow.

But why use BASIC (Beginner's Algorithm for Seeming Infinite Confusion)?  How about something more modern, like C, C++, or as they say south of the border, Si?

Cheers,

Tony Miller

Adam



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--=====================_1059062==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Fri Jan 25 19:26:35 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 26 Jan 2002 03:26:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 62530 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 02:38:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2002 02:38:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta5.snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 02:38:43 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.149]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQI002URY0GF2@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:38:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:38:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Internal memory expansion In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020125183649.00aaf578@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_468894==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_468894==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 04:17 AM 1/25/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Hi all! > >I had been asking some other Z-80 hardware experts, and people at >work for help in this. > >I can understand how a '138 can decode out 8 blocks of 8K for a 64K >system-ours. I have seen designs with two '138s allowing for 1K >decoding. > >What I want to do is this-Tony your help anytime! :) >I want to have just a '138 and a 64K x 8 SRAM(cahce type) I want the >memory to start at 6000H and continue for the rest of the available >memory space, 40K left. In worst case, a regular 32K x 8 SRAM chip >would do fine-only the last 8K would not be used. I know the use of a >64K x 8 cache SRAM leaves 24K unused, but that's okay-I want a single >memory chip. What I am getting caught up on is the way to decode the >areas wanted with one chip-and not 5 8K SRAM chips. If you have a 64K x 8 RAM with two chip selects, you can do this with one NOR gate (HCT02, etc). If your RAM has only a single chip select, you would have to add an OR gate (HCT32, etc.) If interested, I will post a .pdf schematic. Cheers, Tony Miller >I want this to be internal, and not needing to be placed on the >outside, since there is no +5V on the expansion bus. Though, I could >get it from the light-pen port. > >The parts will be of the HCT type, so my current drain will be very >small. > > >I have looked at the schematics of the BPA and have found that the >only place for all my signals is the Z-80 itself. I looked at one of >my spare BPAs-it's dead due to being on a carpeted surface! ;( And >was hoping that the socketed chips-the custom ones, would have what I >need. Well, NOT!!! > >I don't have a problem with de-soldering the Z-80 from the BPA and >putting a nice 40-pin machine socket.(helps to work at a high-tech >company!!!) I have excellent de-soldering stations to work with. A >small circuit board with the '138 and the SRAM will sit in the >socket, and the Z-80 on the top of the little daughter board. > >Either this or a small external board that draws from the light-pen >port is what I conceive for a BPA simple memory board. Unless, we >want a switch put in and an 8K EPROM(Blue RAM BASIC) that would >reside at the 2000H space, cart area, and only would be activated >with the switch, make darn sure no cart is in the port!!! > >Tell me what you think! > >Jim W. Krych >p.s. Try out this site guys! >http://www.roarvgm.com/i >mages/devastator_9908.jpg > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups >Sponsor1705006497:HM/A=889707/R=0/*http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?gloss >2+shopping:dmad/M=153641.1824646.3335993.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705006497:H >M/A=889707/R=1/1011932264+http://us.rm> > > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_468894==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 04:17 AM 1/25/2002 +0000, you wrote:
Hi all!

I had been asking some other Z-80 hardware experts, and people at
work for help in this.

I can understand how a '138 can decode out 8 blocks of 8K for a 64K
system-ours. I have seen designs with two '138s allowing for 1K
decoding.

What I want to do is this-Tony your help anytime! :)
I want to have just a '138 and a 64K x 8 SRAM(cahce type) I want the
memory to start at 6000H and continue for the rest of the available
memory space, 40K left. In worst case, a regular 32K x 8 SRAM chip
would do fine-only the last 8K would not be used. I know the use of a
64K x 8 cache SRAM leaves 24K unused, but that's okay-I want a single
memory chip. What I am getting caught up on is the way to decode the
areas wanted with one chip-and not 5 8K SRAM chips.

If you have a 64K x 8 RAM with two chip selects, you can do this with one NOR gate (HCT02, etc).  If your RAM has only a single chip select, you would have to add an OR gate (HCT32, etc.)  If interested, I will post a .pdf schematic.

Cheers,

Tony Miller

I want this to be internal, and not needing to be placed on the
outside, since there is no +5V on the expansion bus. Though, I could
get it from the light-pen port.

The parts will be of the HCT type, so my current drain will be very
small.


I have looked at the schematics of the BPA and have found that the
only place for all my signals is the Z-80 itself. I looked at one of
my spare BPAs-it's dead due to being on a carpeted surface! ;( And
was hoping that the socketed chips-the custom ones, would have what I
need. Well, NOT!!!

I don't have a problem with de-soldering the Z-80 from the BPA and
putting a nice 40-pin machine socket.(helps to work at a high-tech
company!!!)  I have excellent de-soldering stations to work with. A
small circuit board with the '138 and the SRAM will sit in the
socket, and the Z-80 on the top of the little daughter board.

Either this or a small external board that draws from the light-pen
port is what I conceive for a BPA simple memory board. Unless, we
want a switch put in and an 8K EPROM(Blue RAM BASIC) that would
reside at the 2000H space, cart area, and only would be activated
with the switch, make darn sure no cart is in the port!!!

Tell me what you think!

Jim W. Krych
p.s. Try out this site guys!
http://www.roarvgm.com/images/devastator_9908.jpg





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--=====================_468894==_.ALT-- From ward.shrake@w... Mon Jan 28 18:19:14 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 29 Jan 2002 02:19:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 90335 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 02:19:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2002 02:19:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.72) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 02:19:09 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.170] by n22.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2002 02:19:09 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 02:19:06 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Internal memory and more Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 609 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.18 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "centurion030" wrote: (snip) > How to load rapidly from an outside source-perhaps Chad Schell can > help in this. I will contact him. Just one other possible thought along those lines... you guys may want to check this out: http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/crossplatform/transfer/C2N232/ This is info about a Commodore compatible device that someone I know from those circles designed and wrote up, for all to see. Parts of it may be of interest ... or not. Just offering it up, "in case". Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ward.shrake@w... Tue Jan 29 15:35:35 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 29 Jan 2002 23:35:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 11049 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 23:35:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2002 23:35:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.60) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 23:35:34 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.181] by n10.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2002 23:35:34 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:35:33 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: If you want a multicart, please say so now Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3C50BE3F.3020705@s...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3435 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.186 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan ...and furthermore... Adding to my earlier gripes and/or reasons for rethinking the whole multicart project, would be the fact that I spent an incredible amount of time writing a FAQ that may as well not exist at all. No one reads the stupid thing! I'm seriously considering taking it down, after this next (short) batch of carts is made and sold, and just doing things via e-mail. I'm 99% certain that's what I will do, soon? In case you're wondering, this latest foul mood was caused by three cart cancellations, *after* the order-ees had chosen their multicart numbers, and after I had ordered the raw parts I needed to make their carts. (In other words, almost half the carts in this next batch were cancelled, making me REALLY wonder about this project's short-term?) One of the cancellees (with two carts) even talked all sorts of "wow" type stuff up front, saying I should seriously consider going through his web site, and/or selling these games through dealers. (Which made little if any sense in the first place, and made me wonder if the person had even attempted to read the FAQ I'd written? No discounts, one to a person, made to order, produced by hand, hand-numbered; all this and more had been discussed in the Multicart FAQ, and virtually all of it would have to be abandoned to fit into this person's scheme of things. Obviously, it wasn't worth their time to become informed.) Long story short, he ends by asking what the carts cost... way AFTER he had said he would buy them, he had picked his cart numbers, etc. Huh? How any responsible adult could ask what they cost, at that late point in the process, is beyond me? How they could ask it at all, when it was sitting there in the FAQ all along is just mind-boggling. The FAQ clearly and publicly states that I consider this to be a once- in-a-lifetime opportunity to get one of these items. It says I will not be making them forever. It says no cancellations are allowed after a person has told me they want to definitely put in an order, and so on. It's all meaningless. I wasted my breath completely, on those people. They cancelled and plan to come back months or years from now. Whatever. Windows of opportunity only stay open so long. People can whine all they like about we homebrew types, saying that some of us don't run their projects as well as they should. That's a two-way street; many potential customers are not overly credible in anything they say, and border on being total flakes in some ways. I am glad to say they're in the minority, but they're annoying all the same. And people like that bring on an early end to many projects, I am sure? I suspect that many of the best-known homebrew types know this all to well, and don't believe anything till "the check clears". I know that's the case, because I talked to many of them in private. I said in the FAQ that I'd be making these until the good no longer outweighed the bad. Things are beginning to tip more and more in that direction, folks. I make no promises, beyond this next small batch. I am not trying to scare anyone; that's just the reality of the matter. To all who bought one of my multicarts, and made the process pleasant for the both of us, I say a hearty and deeply felt "Thank you"! I hope you all play with and enjoy your multicarts for years to come! Ward Shrake Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm From ballyalley@h... Tue Jan 29 16:04:01 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 30 Jan 2002 00:04:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 57540 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 00:04:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2002 00:04:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.128) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 00:04:00 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:04:00 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 00:04:00 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: If you want a multicart, please say so now Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:04:00 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jan 2002 00:04:00.0313 (UTC) FILETIME=[9E9C1A90:01C1A921] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo I read the mutlti-cart FAQ through several revisions and I can see how someone might not read it; Ward, it's long-- people don't read anymore. If you make the FAQ just three sentences long you will sell more multicarts. Ah, maybe not. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From bbauer@n... Tue Jan 29 20:25:48 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: bbauer@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 30 Jan 2002 04:25:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 86597 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 04:25:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2002 04:25:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail7.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.54) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 04:25:47 -0000 Received: from johndoe ([66.26.242.251]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:25:45 -0500 Message-ID: <005a01c1a946$4b83fab0$0100a8c0@j...> To: References: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: If you want a multicart, please say so now Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:26:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Return-Path: bbauer@n... From: "Ben Bauer" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77764746 X-Yahoo-Profile: arcadenut2002 I just recieved your multicart and I can personally say I am very impressed by the quality of your work. The construction is very professionally done. I have not played it yet but I can not wait to set up my system again and play it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "commie_fan" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:35 PM Subject: [ballyalley] Re: If you want a multicart, please say so now > ...and furthermore... > > Adding to my earlier gripes and/or reasons for rethinking the whole > multicart project, would be the fact that I spent an incredible > amount of time writing a FAQ that may as well not exist at all. No > one reads the stupid thing! I'm seriously considering taking it down, > after this next (short) batch of carts is made and sold, and just > doing things via e-mail. I'm 99% certain that's what I will do, soon? > > In case you're wondering, this latest foul mood was caused by three > cart cancellations, *after* the order-ees had chosen their multicart > numbers, and after I had ordered the raw parts I needed to make their > carts. (In other words, almost half the carts in this next batch were > cancelled, making me REALLY wonder about this project's short-term?) > > One of the cancellees (with two carts) even talked all sorts of "wow" > type stuff up front, saying I should seriously consider going through > his web site, and/or selling these games through dealers. (Which made > little if any sense in the first place, and made me wonder if the > person had even attempted to read the FAQ I'd written? No discounts, > one to a person, made to order, produced by hand, hand-numbered; all > this and more had been discussed in the Multicart FAQ, and virtually > all of it would have to be abandoned to fit into this person's scheme > of things. Obviously, it wasn't worth their time to become informed.) > > Long story short, he ends by asking what the carts cost... way AFTER > he had said he would buy them, he had picked his cart numbers, etc. > > Huh? How any responsible adult could ask what they cost, at that late > point in the process, is beyond me? How they could ask it at all, > when it was sitting there in the FAQ all along is just mind-boggling. > > The FAQ clearly and publicly states that I consider this to be a once- > in-a-lifetime opportunity to get one of these items. It says I will > not be making them forever. It says no cancellations are allowed > after a person has told me they want to definitely put in an order, > and so on. It's all meaningless. I wasted my breath completely, on > those people. They cancelled and plan to come back months or years > from now. Whatever. Windows of opportunity only stay open so long. > > People can whine all they like about we homebrew types, saying that > some of us don't run their projects as well as they should. That's a > two-way street; many potential customers are not overly credible in > anything they say, and border on being total flakes in some ways. I > am glad to say they're in the minority, but they're annoying all the > same. And people like that bring on an early end to many projects, I > am sure? I suspect that many of the best-known homebrew types know > this all to well, and don't believe anything till "the check clears". > I know that's the case, because I talked to many of them in private. > > I said in the FAQ that I'd be making these until the good no longer > outweighed the bad. Things are beginning to tip more and more in that > direction, folks. I make no promises, beyond this next small batch. I > am not trying to scare anyone; that's just the reality of the matter. > > To all who bought one of my multicarts, and made the process pleasant > for the both of us, I say a hearty and deeply felt "Thank you"! I > hope you all play with and enjoy your multicarts for years to come! > > Ward Shrake > Multicart FAQ: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/multifaq.htm > > > > Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From rich_gallo@h... Thu Jan 31 12:02:50 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich_gallo@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 31 Jan 2002 20:02:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 41309 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 20:02:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2002 20:02:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.85) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 20:02:47 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.119] by n35.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2002 20:02:23 -0000 Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:02:20 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: I got my MULTICART!! Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 507 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "rich_gallo_66" X-Originating-IP: 206.210.27.33 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77195557 X-Yahoo-Profile: rich_gallo_66 Just wanted to say that this is a fine piece of craftmanship! I am very excited to receive this item. I just recently got the Bally Arcade and the only reason I did was because of the availablilty of the multicart. As a classic gamer, sure collecting is fun, but I want to PLAY the games just as much. This is a great way to jump right in head first into the Bally world, and I must say for a system that is from that early era in VG history, it is an exciting piece of hardware. JOB WELL DONE! From ballyalley@h... Thu Jan 31 15:53:24 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 31 Jan 2002 23:53:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 88699 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 23:53:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2002 23:53:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.77) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 23:53:23 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:53:23 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:53:22 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] I got my MULTICART!! Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:53:22 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2002 23:53:23.0126 (UTC) FILETIME=[77A49560:01C1AAB2] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >> As a classic gamer, sure collecting is fun, but I want to PLAY the games just as much. >> Amazing as it seems, I havn't read that in a while, "I want to PLAY." It's a breath of fresh air. It sure looks cool to have all these pieces of plastic [cartridges], but after a while I started asking myself, what the heck am I going to do with this plastic? And it's so HEAVY. And takes up so much ROOM. Okay, I'm making excuses, but yes, multicarts are COOL. >> This is a great way to jump right in head first into the Bally world, and I must say for a system that is from that early era in VG history, it is an exciting piece of hardware. >> The Bally is exciting (even when NOT from that era), but most people find it hard to come acorss the hardware, and well, that makes it really hard to use any carts, even a multicart. Thankfully Jim is going to make a Turbo Supercharged Twin-Rocket Engine MB replacment, but it will only work on the White Bally. [wink] Adam _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From rich_gallo@h... Fri Feb 01 09:02:23 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich_gallo@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 1 Feb 2002 17:02:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 38651 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2002 17:02:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2002 17:02:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.70) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2002 17:02:21 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.149] by n20.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2002 16:51:16 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 17:02:14 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: I got my MULTICART!! Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 255 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "rich_gallo_66" X-Originating-IP: 206.210.27.33 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77195557 X-Yahoo-Profile: rich_gallo_66 --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Thankfully Jim is going to make a Turbo > Supercharged Twin-Rocket Engine MB replacment, but it will only work on the > White Bally. [wink] [nudge][nudge] I have a White Bally! [wink] From ballyalley@h... Fri Feb 01 15:10:47 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 1 Feb 2002 23:10:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 85341 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2002 23:10:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2002 23:10:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.84) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2002 23:10:46 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 15:10:46 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Feb 2002 23:10:45 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Geroge Moses Conversation Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 15:10:45 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_72b7_6113_1706" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2002 23:10:46.0088 (UTC) FILETIME=[ADF14C80:01C1AB75] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo ------=_NextPart_000_72b7_6113_1706 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Attached is a summary of several emails that I exchanged with George Moses. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------=_NextPart_000_72b7_6113_1706 Content-Type: text/plain; name="George_Moses_Article.txt"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="George_Moses_Article.txt" Bally Alley Presents: Astrocade Conversations with George Moses By Adam Trionfo In July and August of 2001 I exchanged email with George Moses, the man who investigated Astrocade's sound capabilities and released many compilations of music on cassette for BASIC. I've collected and compiled the essentials of these emails into this interview-style article. I've abbreviated my questions, omitted Bally Alley background history, structured this as an interview, and placed questions and answers out of sequence (to give a more 'readable' quality'). I sent this compilation to George to make sure that the sequence of events is correct and to assure that there are no omissions; he found no errors. In my first email to George, as an introduction, I explained about myself and Bally Alley, ending by summarizing with this: "My goal with Bally Alley has been to attract attention in the established classic gaming area. I also am curious to see if any Z-80 programmers come out of the woodwork. Every other classic system (i.e Atari, Colecovision, Intellivision) has programmers writing new carts, why not the Astrocade too? Some of these new games on the other systems are as good (and infrequently better) than original releases." Adam : Were you involved with the Bally Professional Arcade (Astrocade)? If so, then you are the George Moses I am seeking. I have been looking for you, in conjunction with Astrocade information, for about a year. Brett Bilbrey sent me your email address [...] and I am following up on his lead. George: Yep, that's me. Brett and I are old friends and we met because of the old Bally Professional Arcade. I saw a program in The Arcadian that he wrote in Bally Basic that simulated the toy Simon game [ARCADIAN 1, no. 5 (March 1979): 35]. It wouldn't run, but I noticed he was from Dearborn, not too far from me. So, I got out the phone book and looked up Bilbrey and found him. We got together with a bunch of like-minded friends and formed "BUG," (Bally Users Group) and had lots of meetings, shared programs and techniques and really made an impact on the people who made the Arcade. Adam: Thanks for contacting me. I looked up your website. Now I know how come the best looking ads in the "Arcadian" were always yours. You know all about printing. Do you have the Cursor COLOR pages 52 and 53? I have posted all of Cursor on Bally Alley and would like to have readable versions of these pages. Someone on the Astrocade message board said he could make the pages readable in black and white (MUCH smaller file size) if he could use the original color pages (I have only a photocopy). George: I have ALL of the original Cursors. I could email the color version to you. Of course, I could clean it up first to get rid of the color and convert it into a graphic file. Your choice (GIF, JPG, PDF). [later] I found those pages and scanned them in. Using a series of masks, I was able to get rid of everything on the two pages except the text. Then, I touched up some of the type, especially across the middle of the page where the fold was. I Attached two 1-bit tiffs, one for each page at 300 pixels per inch. But Hotmail refused them because they exceeded the file transfer limit (about 900 k each). Adam: [Thanks!] Adam: Do you know where I can contact Fred Cornett of Cursor? (I doubt this very much.) I understand he sort of "disappeared" when problems with the newsletter arose. I would like to contact him and let him know that Cursor is online. George: Fred Cornett? I went to AltaVista.com and used their people finder and asked for "Fred Cornett" and the state of California and only two of them popped up. I think he lived in California when he was publishing Cursor. This is all I could find: [listing of two people] Adam: I tried the Fred Cornett contact information that you sent from Altavista. The first number is a FAX line and the second number is not for a Fred, it is for a lady named Floral (or something like that). I'll try writing to the first address. [I followed up on the leads, neither of these people was Fred Cornett] Adam: Do you have any unreleased cartridges, written by yourself or anyone? George: I have a couple of unreleased cartridges given to me by Scott Norris, a former Bally programmer. Adam: Do you remember the titles of some of these unreleased cartridges that you have? If they have not already been archived, would you be willing to lend them out to someone that has the ability to dump the EPROM? George: They don't work very well and it would take someone like Brett Bilbrey to figure them out. I also have one of their demo cartridges that demonstrates the console with a great J.S. Bach musical introduction. Adam: I am seeking the copyright holders of all the non-PD software so that it can be legally available, either as public domain (preferred) or as freely distributable software. This software will then be posted on Bally Alley and possibly a limited release CD-ROM. For instance, Robert Fabris has granted permission for all the software in the Arcadian to be posted in this manner. When the rights of the software are available, a distribution method for the tape software needs to be found. WAV and MP3 work best, but the exact data format of the 2000 baud interface isn't available. These sound files need to be digitally remastered so that current users are not frustrated like past tape users (volume control, hiss, head-alignment, etc). What is the status of your Astrocade software? Are you willing to make it public domain? George: You are free to use any of the programs I have created. I don't know how you would use the many Bally Basic programs with the emulator, but one idea comes to mind. Mike White used to burn ROM's of cartridges all the time, and he figured out a way to make a cartridge out of a Bally Basic program by burning the program data right in with the cartridge data [the Astrocade Multicart does just what George suggests]. I have a great Yahtzee game that was published in the Arcadian [2, no. 8 (June 1980): 74-75,82,88.]. Mike improved the code of the Basic game and then put it on a cartridge and sent it to me. It's a great 4 player game that keeps score and moves very fast! And, Mike Peace designed some of the greatest Bally Basic games in existence, including many for the Blue Ram. Adam: Michael White wants me to make sure that I didn't misunderstand your statement [about releasing your programs to the public domain]. I took it for granted that your "Songs" cartridge is now freely distributable along with your tapes. Am I correct? George: I have never written a cartridge. Adam: Mike White would like to send you a Bally cartridge called "Songs." Someone gave it to him in the nineteen eighties and told him that you made it. The songs are yours, but he also was under the impression that you made the cartridge. Also, I have your song "Yesterday" on cartridge with accompanied music notes. Michael sent this to me; he told me that Richard C. Degler made this. George: All my programs were Bally Basic or Astro Basic. I sold a tape cassette with several songs on it. What the user did was plug in the Basic cartridge, load the self-starting Basic program at the beginning of the tape and leave the tape running in the cassette player. As soon as the program booted, it would start reading the music data from the tape. Once it "poked" all the data in consecutive memory locations, it would start "peeking" at the consecutive locations, loading the three-tone sound processor and start playing the notes. Each chord was accompanied by a "duration" value, so you could, in effect play whole notes, half notes, sixteenth notes, any kind of rhythm you wanted! [See ARCADIAN, 2 no. 7 (May 1980): 62-63. for a tutorial written by George on this technique.] Anyhow, once the entire song was done playing, the program would start looking at the tape again for the next song. Since the Arcade had no facility for turning the cassette player on and off, I put long blank spaces on the tape, perfectly timed, so when one song ended, the next one would start loading. I had about 15 songs on a tape. There was a Scott Joplin ragtime piano tape, a Christmas Carol tape and a Bach tape containing 13 of his Two Part Inventions. I had a lot of others too. Also, the original Bally Basic Cartridge had a very powerful math function (which was kicked out of the cartridge in its later version in favor of the editor and prefetch function). Using this function, I created a Timecard Calculator program that you could use to figure out your employees' timecards with precision to four decimal places [CURSOR, 2, no. 5 (January/February 1981): 85-86.] Another program I wrote was a home budgeting program. It wasn't very exciting, but it showed what you could do with the data arrays to keep track of your expenses in different categories. And, I wrote another program ["Astro Zap 2000," ARCADIAN, 4, no. 9 (July 1982): 88.] that was a game something like Space Fortress. It was very fast, with good sounds and explosions, and a function that kept your score. It was no match for the cartridge version, but it was fun to try. Adam: [Astrocade] games [...] can be found [on the Internet in] ROM image collections [that are] dancing on the edge of legality, which is why I am looking for copyright holders so that a collection like this can be posted without existing in any "gray area." This is why I am so glad that you have released your programs. I'm going to write an announcement about the public release of your software. I have contacted Don Gladden too. He still lives in California. He also has allowed all his programs to become public domain (postcardware, actually). I have to figure out how to post your tape programs on Bally Alley. With most other 2000 baud tapes, the WAV files are short, but yours will be too long to post as compressed WAV or even MP3 files. I need to find a workaround for this. Mike and I were talking about Lister, the program you wrote. I was going to order the cartridge from him for potential future use, but the version he has is modified to print to the parallel port on the Blue RAM. While I do have a 16K Blue Ram, I do not have this interface. George: Speaking of the Blue Ram, I have what is probably the only 32k Blue Ram ever built by Perkins Engineering. I know I have a version of the Blue Ram Utility, along with many other programs on tape by John Perkins. Whether they still work or not, I'll have to find out. Adam: [Mike...] said that Clyde made one other 32K Blue Ram besides yours (that he knows of). [Do] you know how to contact some of the original Astrocade community? Do you know the whereabouts of any of these people: John Perkins, Andy Guevara, Ken Lill, Michael Prosise, or Mike Peace? George: [Gives me Mike's email address] By the way, Mike Peace has a website at: http://members.aol.com/MakePeace1/page11.html There's a link there that will take you to his song library. He is a musician and has produced quite a few CDs. There are lots of funny songs too and he lets you download MP3 files of them free. I wrote the lyrics to one of them, "Thank You Scary Movies." Adam: Thanks for Mike Peace's email address, I sent him an email and I hope to hear back from him soon. [Mike did respond and we exchanged a couple of emails, which I collected in a short article.] Selected Articles and Programs: Bilbrey, Brett. "Simon," ARCADIAN 1, no. 5 (March 1979): 35. Moses, George. "Analog (non-digital) Clock," ARCADIAN, 3, no. 10 (August 1981): 105. ----. "Astro Zap 2000," ARCADIAN, 4, no. 9 (July 1982): 88 ----. "Character Display in Extended BASIC," ARCADIAN, 5, no. 9 (July 1983): 145. ----. "Executive Time Card Calculator," Cursor, 2, no. 5 (January/February 1981): 85-86. ----. "How to Add Sound Effects to Daredevil," ARCADIAN, 3, no.11 (September 1981): 111. ----. "How to Use the Blue Ram BASIC 'Play%()' Command," ARCADIAN, 5, no. 8 (June 1983): 128. ----. "Michigan Bally User's Group gets a look at Zgrass-32 'add-under' for the Arcade!," ARCADIAN, 3, no. 6 (April 1981): 64-65. ----. "Music Input Program, Plays 3-Tone Music in BASIC," ARCADIAN 2, no. 7 (May 1980): 62-63. ----. "Music Processor Command, Part II," ARCADIAN, 5, no. 10 (August 1983): 156. ----. "New 3 Voice Music Assembler Featuring no REM Statements," ARCADIAN 4, no. 1 (November 1981): 10-11. ----. "Sound Port - Sound Variable Conversion," ARCADIAN, 5, no. 4 (February 1983): 58-59. ----. "Tonic for Bitter Music," Cursor, 2, no. 2 (September 1980): 61. ----. "We Three Kings of Orient Are," Cursor, 2, no. 3 (October 1980): 69. Wiseman, Bob. "Yahtzee," Arcadian 2, no. 8 (June 1980): 74-75, 82, 88. Selected Advertisements for Music Tapes: Moses, George. "3-Part Arcade Christmas Music," ARCADIAN, 3, 1 (November 1980): 9. ----. "Make Your Arcade Sing," ARCADIAN, 5, no. 2 (December 1982): 35. ----. "3-Part Harmony Software," ARCADIAN, 6, no. 11/12 (October 1984): 121. -- February 1, 2002 ------=_NextPart_000_72b7_6113_1706-- From ballyalley@h... Fri Feb 01 15:11:56 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 1 Feb 2002 23:11:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 97454 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2002 23:11:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2002 23:11:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.154) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2002 23:11:55 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 15:11:55 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Feb 2002 23:11:55 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Mike Peace (Wavemakers) Conversation Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 15:11:55 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_6dbb_61f7_78e2" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2002 23:11:55.0820 (UTC) FILETIME=[D7818EC0:01C1AB75] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo ------=_NextPart_000_6dbb_61f7_78e2 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Attached is a summary of several emails that I exchanged with Mike Peace of Wavemakers. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------=_NextPart_000_6dbb_61f7_78e2 Content-Type: text/plain; name="wavemakers.txt"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="wavemakers.txt" Bally Alley Presents: Wavemakers's History and Overview From Mike Peace By Adam Trionfo In early August 2001 I exchanged email with Mike Peace, the programmer behind the popular Astrocade cassette-release-only company, Wavemakers. I've collected and compiled the essentials of these emails into this interview-style article. I sent this compilation to Mike to make sure that the sequence of events is correct and to assure that there are no omissions; he found no errors. Adam: Briefly, I have questions for you along the lines of the history of Wavemakers. I also am curious about where the rights to your software stands. I have contacted George Moses, Brett Bilbrey, and Don Gladden; each of them has made their programs public domain or freely distributable. Bob Fabris has also allowed me to post his newsletter on Bally Alley and on the possible future CD-ROM. Mike: I own the rights to the programs that I wrote for [the] Bally, so that gives me the control over how they can be used. Basically, they ain't making me any money anymore. I don't know if you have any copies of the games at this point, cuz I really don't know who you are or anything about you or what your plans are. I would be glad to consider any ideas that you have in mind. I find it amazing that you are interested in resurrecting the ole Bally\Astrocade. Sounds interesting. Adam: [I explain to Mike about Bally Alley and give him some links to look through to find out more about the idea of releasing the games. I ask Mike more about his company.] Mike: I started out with the Bally Basic cartridge (the original 300 baud model) and taught myself to program on it. I got fairly good very quickly and offered Fred Cornet of Cursor some program listings for his newsletters. At one point Fred suggested that I begin selling my programs and that he would place ads in his newsletter for me at no charge. It grew from there into a 20 game tape catalog with bonus games on each tape. I could fax you a copy of our 18 tape catalog if you like. I seem to have lost or disposed of much of our literature over the years since going out of business. WaveMakers had become a full time business supporting a 5 employee office and was still gearing up for continued growth when Astrocade pulled the plug on all of us going into Chapter 11. We had just received a 6 million dollar order from Wards for our entire line of games and were wondering how we were going to be able to fill it. Needless to say, we ended up with a big loss when Wards canceled the order waiting to see what Astrocade's next move would be. I still have the "2nd generation Master Tapes" used in production but I can't say what condition they are in. I'm not sure what your plans are to get the programming from tape onto a PC. Each of the tapes contained a copy code that would prevent copying the program once loaded into the Astrocade from being saved to a new tape. Sorry 'bout that. I thought it was quite ingenious at the time. Adam: [What about your] relationship with Bally (since your programs are in the BASIC manual I figure that there must be one)... Mike: George Moses helped set the type on the second [Astro BASIC] user manual and he was responsible for having my code listings included in the book. Have you actually played any of the WaveMaker games? My favorites were "Castle of Horror" and "Gate Escape." Selected Articles: Cornett, Fred. "Pack Rat [review]," CURSOR 3, no. 2 (May/June 1981): 23. Carson, Dave. "Gate Escape, The [review]," ARCADIAN 5, no. 12 (October 1983): 178 ----. "Collision Course [review]," ARCADIAN 6, no. 3 (January 1984): 28 ----. "Output 19 [review]," ARCADIAN 6, no. 11/12 (October 1984): 118-119 ----. "Who's Who Interview - Wavemakers," ARCADIAN 5, no. 1 (November 1982): 5 Peace, Mike. "Brick 'n the Wall," ARCADIAN, 4, no. 8 (June 1982): 77. ----. "Chicago Loop," CURSOR 1, no. 3 (March 1980): 21. ----. "Invasion Force," CURSOR, 3, no. 3 (July/August 1981): 28. ----. "Line Resequence," CURSOR, 2, no. 5 (January/February 1981): 89. ----. "Mazemaker," CURSOR 1, no. 6 (July 1980): 46. ----. "Music Keyboard for 2 Voice Music," ARCADIAN, 5, no. 4 (February 1983): 63. ----. "Music Keyboard, Correction," ARCADIAN, 5, no. 5 (March 1983): 77. ----. "New Two Voice Music," ARCADIAN, 5, no. 3 (January 1983): 53. ----. "Sound Effects!!!," CURSOR, 3, no. 3 (July/August 1981): 34. ----. "Sound Port Study," CURSOR, 3, no. 1 (April 1981): 11. Prosise, Michael. "Dungeons of Dracula [review]," ARCADIAN 5, no. 2 (December 1982): 38. ----. "Gate Escape, The [review]," ARCADIAN 5, no. 11 (September 1983): 165. Selected Advertisements: Wavemakers. "Castle of Horror," ARCADIAN 4, no. 5 (March 1982): 50. ----. "Castle of Horror," ARCADIAN 4, no. 12 (October 1982): 120. ----. "Lookout for the Bull!," CURSOR 3, no. 3 (July/August): 36. ----. "Lookout for the Bull!," ARCADIAN 4, no. 4 (January 1982): 41. ----. "Monkey Jump," ARCADIAN 4, no. 8 (November 1982): 84. -- February 1, 2002 ------=_NextPart_000_6dbb_61f7_78e2-- From ballyalley@h... Fri Feb 01 15:20:51 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 1 Feb 2002 23:20:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 11191 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2002 23:20:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2002 23:20:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.212) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2002 23:20:50 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 15:20:50 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 01 Feb 2002 23:20:50 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Astrocade freely distributable software update Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 15:20:50 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2002 23:20:50.0367 (UTC) FILETIME=[161EF4F0:01C1AB77] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo As the conversations with George Moses and Mike Peace will show, there is more freely distributable software available for the Astrocade now. I'm going to list exactly what it all is, as soon as I get a handle on it all. For now, here's what happening. George Moses Co. - All software freely distributable Wavemakers - All software freely distributable New Image - All non-cartridge software freely distributable Arcadian Programs - All newsletter software freely distributable Brett Bilbrey Carts - All software freely distributable I'm actively looking for the copyright holders of: L&M Bit Fidders Astrocade If anyone has any leads, please contact me. Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From komb@s... Fri Feb 01 20:36:23 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Feb 2002 04:36:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 31067 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2002 04:36:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2002 04:36:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.56) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2002 04:36:22 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.248.206]) by tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020202043622.YMMX9396.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 23:36:22 -0500 Message-ID: <3C5B6CB9.5060605@s...> Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 23:36:09 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20020104 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade freely distributable software update References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian You are Awsome! My hat's off to you. And a hearty 'Thank You!' to all who released there software for us to enjoy! Looking forward to seeing these programs! From ward.shrake@w... Wed Feb 06 11:45:57 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 6 Feb 2002 19:45:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 83725 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2002 19:45:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2002 19:45:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.58) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2002 19:45:57 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.167] by n8.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2002 19:45:55 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 19:45:52 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Ward's Multicart FAQ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5202 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.83 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I read the mutlti-cart FAQ through several revisions > and I can see how someone might not read it; Ward, > it's long-- people don't read anymore. If you make > the FAQ just three sentences long you will sell more > multicarts. Ah, maybe not. As the author of that FAQ, I'd have to say that I agree 100% that it is long... ridiculously, record-settingly long. That's self-evident, and I take no offense at the suggestion. I often worry that I "talk too freakin' much" in regards to this hobby in general, etc, etc. I also often think that reading comprehension, on the whole, sucks. And that many people are lazy, and will not work to obtain answers, no matter how much they openly profess a desire to have information. I am not speaking about this group, or even retro-gaming. I've met some school teachers that adamantly refuse to read anything longer than one page, no matter what it is about, all the while preaching the absolute importance of being able to read well. That's blatant hypocrisy. It's also off-topic, so I'll get back to the point... Back in August of 2001, I had no Multicart FAQ at all. I *was* doing the "three sentence explanation" type of thing, in e-mail. And people were telling me that was not enough information. It caused problems, or so people were telling me. They encouraged more communication. Each potential customer wanted me to answer -- for them personally -- some question or other that I thought sounded like a legitimate thing to wonder about. Some questions got asked a lot. So I wrote a short FAQ, way back when. I put it up publicly. I tried to point people to it, so I would not have to answer the same basic questions over and over in e-mail; I would rather spend the time working on the carts. As more questions came in, and were repeated, I answered those, too. To me the FAQ is a tool, and nothing more. My frustration is not the idea that people won't keep track of every single detail in it. I do not expect people to memorize the silly thing. But I hold myself to be completely blameless in the information dissemination process, as I took the time and trouble to build a menu-based, HTML-ized FAQ and posted it online. I have more than done my part, the way I see it? I really can't fathom the idea of someone asking me "what does it cost" when a menu-based FAQ, with that exact question on it, exists. Not days after they've put in a firm order, and picked their cart numbers? Not days after telling me to sell through them, as a dealer? My God, how hard is it to click on a FAQ link, scroll down to the one or two specific questions you have, and to click on that selection? I couldn't make it easier, if I could inject answers intravaneously?! My six year old nephew can turn on his family's IBM clone, put in a CD-ROM game, use the mouse to start it, and play it, all on his own. If someone actually wanted their questions answered, it's very easy. But it takes effort on their part, and that's where things break down. As much as anything, my long-winded Multicart FAQ was a personal test of sorts. I knew that nearly little or no communication on my part was not a good thing, if a person actually wanted answers to their questions. In that case, misunderstandings were clearly "my fault". But I had doubts that it would make any difference, no matter what I did. By writing a detailed, menu-driven, "state of the art" type HTML- ized FAQ, I figured I would completely eliminate any chance that I was not communicating clearly or enough or whatever. I would cease to be the fault of any communication problem, and therefore the blame for any remaining problem would have to fall elsewhere. In short, I would know, once and for all, if I could ever please some people. I now know that I was damned when I under-communicated, and I found out I'm equally damned when I over-communicated. I've proven that, if not 100% scientifically, then at least to my own satisfaction. Besides just being a nerd, why would I want to "test" such a theory? I've been mentally debating, for quite some time, whether or not I wanted to put up a web site that was just about the technical stuff I had done, regarding old computers and video games. Before I did that, I wanted to know if I would be wasting my time if I wrote things up with more than "three sentence" explanations. I have my answer now. If I do it at all, it'll be a no-frills, "see what I did, but not necessarily with enough details to duplicate what I did" type thing. I don't see that the extra effort to do the latter can be justified? C'est la vie. Life goes on. This isn't meant to be "sour grapes" or a whining session. I'm just trying to be practical. I'm trying to manage my time more wisely. Having written a "novel" length project FAQ once, that failed to do what it was intended to do, I will not be so easily tempted to do it again. On any subject. Why bother? There are dozens of things I could be doing with my time, all of them more enjoyable than endless typing. Playing games, for instance, or spending time with my other hobbies. Ward Shrake From douglas_t_lee@p... Wed Feb 06 12:24:54 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: douglas_t_lee@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 6 Feb 2002 20:24:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 64659 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2002 20:24:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2002 20:24:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.66) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2002 20:24:52 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.164] by n16.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2002 20:23:44 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 20:24:48 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Ward's Multicart FAQ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1908 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "dtlee" X-Originating-IP: 24.188.32.44 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54977169 X-Yahoo-Profile: dtlee Ward, You are right and you are wrong. The purpose of a good FAQ is to answer questions that frequently or could frequently be asked and to answer them well so as to serve a relatively large audience. Three sentences is what a manager wants to hear. A detailed technical explanation is what a "techie" prefers. While the FAQ goes a little beyond that, it is far better than three sentences. I don't understand why we are trying to be perfect in this endeavor. The FAQ is excellent. The problem that some people don't read it and other people read what they want to read is not the fault of it's author. We can't blame the FAQ for the fellow who asked about the price after everything after all of the details were worked out. Yes, we could all communicate better. However, I think the FAQ does that well, the fact that people can't read is not your fault. When I was in school they taught us how William Golding carefully and painstakingly crafted every symbolic meaning into Lord of the Flies. Then they taught us to speed read. They could not see how disrespectful it might be to an author who cares about character development or setting a mood. When I need to communicate with manager types who demand the details but don't read them, it is very frustrating. At work, we put together a list of project issues with hyperlinks to the details and the history of each along with a summary page. When a task was 100% complete, it changed color to "Green" on the summary page. The last time I met with him, it was clear he hadn't read anything, but it was equally clear that he noticed that the number of "Greens" had gone from two to three. If I didn't have the detail, it would have been a problem. However, all he really wanted was the colors. Thank goodness I had both. Just my (long-winded) opinion. Probably explains why I like the FAQ the way it is. From ward.shrake@w... Wed Feb 06 14:21:57 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 6 Feb 2002 22:21:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 85502 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2002 22:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2002 22:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.73) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2002 22:21:55 -0000 Received: from [216.115.97.87] by n23.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2002 22:21:55 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 22:21:52 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Ward's Multicart FAQ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1254 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.107 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "dtlee" wrote: > Ward, > > You are right and you are wrong. I won't debate that. I mostly agree with it, actually. [massive snippage] > Just my (long-winded) opinion. Probably explains why > I like the FAQ the way it is. I like your opinion. Thanks much for expressing it so well. However, I've been buckling under pressure from many sides in regards to the Multicart FAQ. As a result, as of today, it no longer exists. I deleted it from the web, and killed the "Timeline Text" or project diary with it. I posted a redirect in their places, pointing to a new web site that I have not fleshed out yet. At some future point -- on an "if and when I feel like making the time" basis -- I plan to take all of the old technical articles I have written over the years, and to put them all in one place. (The compulsive organizer in me likes that idea very much.) In time, I plan to add new stuff there as well. This does NOT mean the Multicart project itself is dead... just the Multicart FAQ. It never truly saved me from the hassles I was hoping it would, and at the same time, it had created new problems just by existing. It became more trouble than it was worth, so I killed it. Ward Shrake From komb@s... Wed Feb 06 16:03:37 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 7 Feb 2002 00:03:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 36310 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2002 00:03:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2002 00:03:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.184) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2002 00:03:35 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.251.174]) by tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020207000428.EPMO22207.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 19:04:28 -0500 Message-ID: <3C61C444.8080501@s...> Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 19:03:16 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20020104 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Ward's Multicart FAQ References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian I can totally relate to the 'people not reading' side of things. I used to work in retail. (Computers) To help every one we had signs next to all the computers on display, with compleate spec. and price. I, and many of the staff would spend a large part of the time 'reading the detail sheet to the customers.'! Along with other helpfull gimmics the chain tried, I came to the conclusion that many (There were the odd cluefull ones) customers coulden't find what they were looking for if we put neon lights and blinking arrows around it! Now the ones who had other questions & conserns (Even ones that seemed silly to a pro) were much better. You could often educate them. Anyway, Sorry to hear you killed the FAQ. I did read it, though I may have forgotten a detail or two. Look forward to the new site. From ward.shrake@w... Wed Feb 06 18:27:31 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 7 Feb 2002 02:27:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 93542 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2002 02:27:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2002 02:27:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.57) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2002 02:27:30 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.161] by n7.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Feb 2002 02:27:30 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 02:27:28 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Ward's Multicart FAQ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3C61C444.8080501@s...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5277 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.182 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Lance F. Squire" wrote: (snip) > I can totally relate to the 'people not reading' side of things. (snip) > Sorry to hear you killed the FAQ. In the long run, I didn't see any realistic choice. Many months ago, when everything was in the "idea but nothing to show for it yet" stages, people asked me many questions related to "how do you plan to make and sell these things to others?" Which sounds innocent enough. I thought about it. Quite a bit, actually. Then I told them how I planned to do it. Immediately, everyone was thrown for a loop. What they wanted to hear was "exactly the way Sean Kelly does his projects, or the way Chad Schell does his projects". What they got was some completely new beast, that sounded nothing like anyone else's projects. Naturally, they wanted to know why I'd be different? This is the root of the problem; one I now don't believe I can solve. I knew the answers, of course, but I thought it was going to end up becoming my own life story, with all sorts of embarrassing personal details, if I tried to answer those questions very literally. So I began just telling people to trust me. I said that there were lots of very good reasons for every single decision I had made. I said, in no uncertain terms, that I had no other choice. Most people refused to accept this. They insisted on knowing exactly why my project was going to be run so differently than any other homebrewer had ever run their projects. Some sounded rather angry. This is where the problem began to really get out of hand. I was put between a rock and a hard place. I had a choice of telling these people, "You are prying into my personal life, and none of it is any of your business" or trying to be nicer than that to them, even if it meant divulging potentially embarrassing personal facts. The bottomline is, and always was, that I do not have the same amount of disposable income that Sean Kelly has, or Chad Schell has. I'm a struggling actor who can barely pay his bills, let alone afford to toss hundreds of dollars into something that may or may not work out. No matter how many times I said that, or even gave examples to help people understand it, they kept treating me like I had the same exact set of resources that anyone else had, and I was just being difficult. Being a very private person in many ways, I wanted to protect my own privacy, and not bare my soul to the world, financially or otherwise. Screaming out "I'm as poor as a churchmouse" never sat well with me. I finally buckled under the continual pressure, and I did it anyway. My last whimper, before giving in, was to try to tell people to "take it or leave it". When I said that, I was immediately reprimanded by various parties, all of whom were implying I was being a huge jerk. I tried to answer these questions, rude and intrusive though they may have been. More and more details were added. At some point, the FAQ started to seem to me like it was growing into being a "tell all" tabloid about my personal life. Worse yet, I was the one writing it!? At some point, the whole thing was surreal. Long story short, I kept telling people "I just can't, and here is why I can't" whenever someone insisted that I run my own project differently. (Which was about every other day, actually, at best.) Well-meaning homebrewers read my FAQ, apparently missed all of the important bits, and kept asking me why I didn't spend nearly a grand on having some professional company created my PC boards for me. I'd tell them I could barely afford to buy a Pepsi. They just didn't get it, and no amount of effort on my part could make it any clearer. What I got at the end of all that, from most potential customers, was not an understanding answer like, "Oh, gee, now I see why you have to do things that way, Boy, you really don't have a choice" response. It was much more like, "Who gives a f**k? I don't want to hear about your personal problems? Just give me what I want, and be quick about it. Why are you wasting my time with all this irrelevant nonsense?" And that utter lack of human empathy, as I've often noted before in reference to various homebrew endeavors, dooms most homebrew projects. So, having figured out that I've done everything humanly possible to explain myself, to no avail, I find that I'm back to this now ... "Look at the product I am offering you; see what the label artwork looks like. Look at the list of games, and decide if there are enough cool games on the cart to make you want it. Here is the purchase price. Weigh that all for yourself. Then take it or leave it." I note now, as I noted months ago, that when you really look at the way other homebrewers have run their projects, that is what it boils down to. They show a picture of the cart, list the games, list the price, and that's it. You either decide to take it, or you leave it. As I said months ago, the only real difference is that I am saying it here openly, whereas they merely imply it. Same result, either way. > Look forward to the new site. Thanks! And I'm looking forward to doing it, now that I have a firm set of parameters in mind, for what to do... and what not to do! Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Wed Feb 06 18:48:22 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 7 Feb 2002 02:48:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 71073 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2002 02:48:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2002 02:48:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.66) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2002 02:48:22 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.160] by n16.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Feb 2002 02:47:13 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 02:48:18 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: I got my MULTICART!! Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 941 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.182 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "rich_gallo_66" wrote: > Just wanted to say that this is a fine piece > of craftmanship! I am very excited to receive > this item. I just recently got the Bally Arcade > and the only reason I did was because of the > availablilty of the multicart. As a classic > gamer, sure collecting is fun, but I want to > PLAY the games just as much. This is a great > way to jump right in head first into the Bally > world, and I must say for a system that is > from that early era in VG history, it is an > exciting piece of hardware. JOB WELL DONE! Thanks much, Rich. As the guy making these multicarts, I want to publicly say that I appreciate all the kind reviews I've received. Beyond that, though, I feel like it is "neat" to be able to give some retro-gamers the ability to see and appreciate this cool old stuff. And I'm thrilled to hear that people play with their carts! :-) Ward Shrake From ballyalley@h... Thu Feb 07 07:32:45 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 7 Feb 2002 15:32:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 64120 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2002 15:32:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2002 15:32:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.184) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2002 15:32:43 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 07:32:43 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 15:32:43 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Nutting Manual - with diagrams Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:32:43 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2002 15:32:43.0403 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF76DDB0:01C1AFEC] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo I've completed the Nutting manual with all the diagrams. It's in Word format right now, so I'm not uploading it. I need to change it into a searchable PDF, then I'll let it loose here on the discussion group. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From ballyalley@h... Thu Feb 07 07:50:29 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 7 Feb 2002 15:50:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 59421 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2002 15:50:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2002 15:50:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.193) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2002 15:50:28 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 07:50:28 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 15:50:28 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Astrocade Cross-platform development program ideas Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:50:28 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2002 15:50:28.0341 (UTC) FILETIME=[2A378250:01C1AFEF] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Here are some ideas for cross-development programs for the Astrocade: 1) ASTROWAV -------- Cleanup a BASIC WAV file and convert it to hex. This has been discussed before. 2) B&W Picture Display ------------------- Convert a 160x100 B&W TIFF file into an array of hex numbers for display via cart. The Astrocade gets four pixels from each byte, so that means this data requires 4000 bytes of space. A B&W picture only uses half the data, but we could worry about that later when we display a four color picture (or eight color picture if the Left/Right color boundary is used to the artist's advantage). Mike White wrote a program for the multicart that writes data to the screen (it's the one that allows two BASIC carts), I've already used it to write B&W data (converted from an image on graph paper, by hand) to the screen. This would be fun to use. 3) DEC2HEX ------- Convert Astrocade BASIC machine language programs to a binary file that has all the data in normal Z80 readable order. I've already made a simple cludge C program that does this for myself. With refinement, this could make for a good developoment tool. 4) HEX2DEC ------- Convert regular Z80 code into Astrocade BASIC format's reverse notation. If ASTROWAV is created, then this program would allow short ML programs to be written and then loaded into AstroBASIC. Color games like Chicken could be written using cross-platform development tools already written. This has great potential. Comments? Questions? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From fmillera@p... Thu Feb 07 19:02:36 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 8 Feb 2002 03:02:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 45269 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2002 03:02:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2002 03:02:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta6.snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2002 03:02:29 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.242.179]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GR7003LB1S3IU@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:02:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:02:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade Cross-platform development program ideas In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020207190032.00aa8408@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus At 07:50 AM 2/7/2002 -0800, you wrote: Folks; Forgive my software naivete, but why all the focus on BASIC, when there are REAL languages like C available, which I am sure someone has running on a Z80. Then one of our groups software gurus can get the various audio & video routines working. Is this completely off-the-wall? Cheers, Tony Miller >Here are some ideas for cross-development programs for the Astrocade: > >1) ASTROWAV > -------- > >Cleanup a BASIC WAV file and convert it to hex. This has been discussed >before. > >2) B&W Picture Display > ------------------- > >Convert a 160x100 B&W TIFF file into an array of hex numbers for display via >cart. The Astrocade gets four pixels from each byte, so that means this >data requires 4000 bytes of space. A B&W picture only uses half the data, >but we could worry about that later when we display a four color picture (or >eight color picture if the Left/Right color boundary is used to the artist's >advantage). Mike White wrote a program for the multicart that writes data >to the screen (it's the one that allows two BASIC carts), I've already used >it to write B&W data (converted from an image on graph paper, by hand) to >the screen. This would be fun to use. > >3) DEC2HEX > ------- > >Convert Astrocade BASIC machine language programs to a binary file that has >all the data in normal Z80 readable order. I've already made a simple >cludge C program that does this for myself. With refinement, this could >make for a good developoment tool. > >4) HEX2DEC > ------- > >Convert regular Z80 code into Astrocade BASIC format's reverse notation. If >ASTROWAV is created, then this program would allow short ML programs to be >written and then loaded into AstroBASIC. Color games like Chicken could be >written using cross-platform development tools already written. This has >great potential. > >Comments? Questions? > >Adam > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com > > > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From komb@s... Thu Feb 07 19:48:37 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 8 Feb 2002 03:48:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 18959 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2002 03:48:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2002 03:48:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.34) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2002 03:48:36 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.6.142]) by tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020208034835.IFJP28735.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:48:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3C634A81.2010302@s...> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 22:48:17 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020205 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade Cross-platform development program ideas References: <4.2.2.20020207190032.00aa8408@p...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Tony Miller wrote: > At 07:50 AM 2/7/2002 -0800, you wrote: > Folks; > > Forgive my software naivete, but why all the focus on BASIC, when there are > REAL languages like C available, which I am sure someone has running on a > Z80. Then one of our groups software gurus can get the various audio & > video routines working. > > Is this completely off-the-wall? > Personally, I can't see it. Though there are a number of Z80 small C implimentations. If someone wants to go that route... Me, I'll stick to assembly for the Z80. As for BASIC, Vertually every Bally/Astrocade comes with it. It has a usable data link. (Audio) Also, it's easy for a beginer to play with. No confusing compile-link-crash to sort out. Much easier error tracking! 'REAL' is a realitave term. C is'nt a 'REAL' language, it isn't Object Orented like C++ or Java! ;) Actually, Any language that works for you, is 'REAL' enough for me. Lance From komb@s... Thu Feb 07 20:11:25 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 8 Feb 2002 04:11:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 25893 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2002 04:11:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2002 04:11:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.187) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2002 04:11:24 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.6.142]) by tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020208041110.OGVD22396.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 23:11:10 -0500 Message-ID: <3C634FD9.7020505@s...> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 23:11:05 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020205 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Programming sample Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian I have just uploaded 'menutest.z80' to the files section. This is the first in a series of test programs I'll be doing as I learn the system, and prepare for the project I have planed. This one is a simple cart header and menu items. It shows the basics for starting a menued cart. Assemble using zmac and give the .bin file to a mess or Xmess emulator. It dosen't do much, but it does load. The sorce is tabed. My editor uses 8 space tabs. if you view the code with a 4 space tab, it'll look badly formated. Enjoy! Lance F. Squire From fmillera@p... Thu Feb 07 21:41:10 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 8 Feb 2002 05:41:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 56677 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2002 05:41:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2002 05:41:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta7.pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2002 05:41:09 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.83]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GR700DCF94J77@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:41:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:41:04 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade Cross-platform development program ideas In-reply-to: <3C634A81.2010302@s...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020207213846.00ab9b30@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1214886==_.ALT" References: <4.2.2.20020207190032.00aa8408@p...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_1214886==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:48 PM 2/7/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Tony Miller wrote: > > At 07:50 AM 2/7/2002 -0800, you wrote: > > Folks; > > > > Forgive my software naivete, but why all the focus on BASIC, when there > are > > REAL languages like C available, which I am sure someone has running on a > > Z80. Then one of our groups software gurus can get the various audio & > > video routines working. > > > > Is this completely off-the-wall? > > > > >Personally, I can't see it. > > Though there are a number of Z80 small C implimentations. If someone >wants to go that route... > >Me, I'll stick to assembly for the Z80. > >As for BASIC, Vertually every Bally/Astrocade comes with it. It has a >usable data link. (Audio) Also, it's easy for a beginer to play with. >No confusing compile-link-crash to sort out. Much easier error tracking! And endless scraps of paper to keep track of the gosubs with! >'REAL' is a realitave term. C is'nt a 'REAL' language, it isn't Object >Orented like C++ or Java! ;) Object-oriented schmobject-oriented. C speaks very much like Verilog. Now there's a man's language, something you can make real hardware out of! >Actually, Any language that works for you, is 'REAL' enough for me. > >Lance > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_1214886==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 10:48 PM 2/7/2002 -0500, you wrote:
Tony Miller wrote:
> At 07:50 AM 2/7/2002 -0800, you wrote:
> Folks;
>
> Forgive my software naivete, but why all the focus on BASIC, when there are
> REAL languages like C available, which I am sure someone has running on a
> Z80.  Then one of our groups software gurus can get the various audio &
> video routines working.
>
> Is this completely off-the-wall?
>


Personally, I can't see it.

  Though there are a number of Z80 small C implimentations. If someone
wants to go that route...

Me, I'll stick to assembly for the Z80.

As for BASIC, Vertually every Bally/Astrocade comes with it. It has a
usable data link. (Audio) Also, it's easy for a  beginer to play with.
No confusing compile-link-crash to sort out. Much easier error tracking!

And endless scraps of paper to keep track of the gosubs with!


'REAL' is a realitave term. C is'nt a 'REAL' language, it isn't Object
Orented like C++ or Java! ;)

Object-oriented schmobject-oriented.  C speaks very much like Verilog.  Now there's a man's language, something you can make real hardware out of!


Actually, Any language that works for you, is 'REAL' enough for me.

Lance





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--=====================_1214886==_.ALT-- From komb@s... Fri Feb 08 16:42:57 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 9 Feb 2002 00:42:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 27880 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2002 00:32:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2002 00:32:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.52) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2002 00:32:18 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.6.142]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020209003217.STUM9381.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2002 19:32:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3C646DFC.4090707@s...> Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 19:31:56 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020205 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade Cross-platform development program ideas References: <4.2.2.20020207190032.00aa8408@p...> <4.2.2.20020207213846.00ab9b30@p...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Tony Miller wrote: > At 10:48 PM 2/7/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > > And endless scraps of paper to keep track of the gosubs with! > > ??? Why? Never had to do that. Also, it 1800 bytes you can't get very deep! >> 'REAL' is a realitave term. C is'nt a 'REAL' language, it isn't Object >> Orented like C++ or Java! ;) > > > Object-oriented schmobject-oriented. (I was kidding...) > C speaks very much like Verilog. > Now there's a man's language, something you can make real hardware out of! > Never heard of that one... Must look it up. Lance From fmillera@p... Fri Feb 08 19:08:23 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 9 Feb 2002 03:08:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 18884 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2002 03:08:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2002 03:08:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta7.pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2002 03:08:22 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.119]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GR8000LFWPVER@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 08 Feb 2002 19:08:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 19:08:18 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade Cross-platform development program ideas In-reply-to: <3C646DFC.4090707@s...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020208190651.00aa4070@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1339716==_.ALT" References: <4.2.2.20020207190032.00aa8408@p...> <4.2.2.20020207213846.00ab9b30@p...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_1339716==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:31 PM 2/8/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Tony Miller wrote: > > At 10:48 PM 2/7/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > > And endless scraps of paper to keep track of the gosubs with! > > > > > >??? Why? Never had to do that. > >Also, it 1800 bytes you can't get very deep! > > > >> 'REAL' is a realitave term. C is'nt a 'REAL' language, it isn't Object > >> Orented like C++ or Java! ;) > > > > > > Object-oriented schmobject-oriented. > >(I was kidding...) > > > C speaks very much like Verilog. > > Now there's a man's language, something you can make real hardware out of! > > > >Never heard of that one... Must look it up. Verilog is one of two Hardware Description Languages currently in use. About 75% of the ASICs designed today are designed using verilog and the various tools which support it. Cheers, Tony Miller >Lance > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_1339716==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 07:31 PM 2/8/2002 -0500, you wrote:
Tony Miller wrote:
> At 10:48 PM 2/7/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
> And endless scraps of paper to keep track of the gosubs with!
>
>

??? Why? Never had to do that.

Also, it 1800 bytes you can't get very deep!


>> 'REAL' is a realitave term. C is'nt a 'REAL' language, it isn't Object
>> Orented like C++ or Java! ;)
>
>
> Object-oriented schmobject-oriented.

(I was kidding...)

>  C speaks very much like Verilog. 
> Now there's a man's language, something you can make real hardware out of!
>

Never heard of that one... Must look it up.

Verilog is one of two Hardware Description Languages currently in use.  About 75% of the ASICs designed today are designed using verilog and the various tools which support it.

Cheers,

Tony Miller


Lance


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--=====================_1339716==_.ALT-- From jwkrych@n... Fri Feb 08 20:01:18 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 9 Feb 2002 04:01:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 60738 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2002 04:01:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2002 04:01:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.53) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2002 04:01:17 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.114] by n3.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2002 04:01:17 -0000 Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 04:01:14 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Some thoughts Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1900 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 24.50.231.39 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Hello everyone! I have some pretty serious questions. Many hardware related, but others in general. Here goes: 1.) Tony, are the custom chips, the video, limited to only the use of DRAM? Could a high-speed SRAM be substituted, with the correct circuitry? 2.) In regards to Verilog, which must be a better langaugle than VHDL, can we replicate the custom chips? 3.) I was given an example from a Zilog engineer-but no schematic. How would a 128K(I know that's darn inneficient) responding to the last 40K of the BPA be accessed? 4.) And to the rest too, how do we propose loading code into an expanded memory device? General questions, to all: 1.) Wouldn't a simple compiler be enough? With the grunt work being done by the PC, we are not constrained by the BPA's limits. And, with extra memory available, we could have fairly large programs compiled. 2.) What about this concept-a simple motherboard replacement, with some extra memory and a few features such as a way to load code into it, and sockets for the custom chips. This would be a "kit" that would need to be stuffed by the user. 3.) Which begs this-that costs money to get a PCB made up at a shop, and with start-up and tooling, how many want this? 4.) Do we want a better emulator? Obviously, a motherboard replacement would be a big labor of love-but one that can certainly be done. We can use a PIC for the keyboard interface, so we get the original and a PS/2 interface. SImilar to what was done years ago by adding a keyboard and it's matrix to the BPA. Having come to the conclusion that high-res WITHOUT major hacking is impossible on the BPA as it is designed, we can limit outselves to simpler hardware projects. Just remember, we can also "borrow" ideas from the TRS-80 community too. Tell me what you think! BTW, we received an "8" from Maximum PC for the Devastator, the February issue! Jim From fmillera@p... Sat Feb 09 11:50:16 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 9 Feb 2002 19:50:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 85610 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2002 19:50:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2002 19:50:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta6.snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2002 19:50:15 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.240.206]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GRA000G973PJH@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 09 Feb 2002 11:50:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 11:50:10 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Some thoughts In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020209114249.00a9b440@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_804917==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_804917==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 04:01 AM 2/9/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Hello everyone! > >I have some pretty serious questions. Many hardware related, but >others in general. Here goes: > >1.) Tony, are the custom chips, the video, limited to only the use of >DRAM? Could a high-speed SRAM be substituted, with the correct >circuitry? Yes >2.) In regards to Verilog, which must be a better langaugle than >VHDL, can we replicate the custom chips? Yes. Verilog is not necessarily a better language than VHDL (the other popular hardware description language, just more popular. >3.) I was given an example from a Zilog engineer-but no schematic. >How would a 128K(I know that's darn inneficient) responding to the >last 40K of the BPA be accessed? Simply by decoding the address just like any other address. The additional 64K on top of the Z80 address space could be mapped into Z80 addresses by using a page register (similar to the X86 segment kludge) to map portions of the extra 64 K into some smaller, but accessible to the Z80, chunks. >4.) And to the rest too, how do we propose loading code into an >expanded memory device? As I have proposed before, hook it up to a PC parallel port, with loader software. That way the code lives on the PC hard drive, and you lad whatever you want into this memory and run it. The Z80 assembler whatever would live on the PC also. >General questions, to all: > >1.) Wouldn't a simple compiler be enough? With the grunt work being >done by the PC, we are not constrained by the BPA's limits. And, with >extra memory available, we could have fairly large programs compiled. > >2.) What about this concept-a simple motherboard replacement, with >some extra memory and a few features such as a way to load code into >it, and sockets for the custom chips. This would be a "kit" that >would need to be stuffed by the user. > >3.) Which begs this-that costs money to get a PCB made up at a shop, >and with start-up and tooling, how many want this? > >4.) Do we want a better emulator? > >Obviously, a motherboard replacement would be a big labor of love-but >one that can certainly be done. We can use a PIC for the keyboard >interface, so we get the original and a PS/2 interface. SImilar to >what was done years ago by adding a keyboard and it's matrix to the >BPA. > >Having come to the conclusion that high-res WITHOUT major hacking is >impossible on the BPA as it is designed, we can limit outselves to >simpler hardware projects. Just remember, we can also "borrow" ideas >from the TRS-80 community too. > >Tell me what you think! BTW, we received an "8" from Maximum PC for >the Devastator, the February issue! > >Jim > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_804917==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 04:01 AM 2/9/2002 +0000, you wrote:
Hello everyone!

I have some pretty serious questions. Many hardware related, but
others in general. Here goes:

1.) Tony, are the custom chips, the video, limited to only the use of
DRAM? Could a high-speed SRAM be substituted, with the correct
circuitry?

Yes


2.) In regards to Verilog, which must be a better langaugle than
VHDL, can we replicate the custom chips?

Yes.  Verilog is not necessarily a better language than VHDL (the other popular hardware description language, just more popular.

3.) I was given an example from a Zilog engineer-but no schematic.
How would a 128K(I know that's darn inneficient) responding to the
last 40K of the BPA be accessed?


Simply by decoding the address just like any other address.  The additional 64K on top of the Z80 address space could be mapped into Z80 addresses by using a page register (similar to the X86 segment kludge) to map portions of the extra 64 K into some smaller, but accessible to the Z80, chunks.


4.) And to the rest too, how do we propose loading code into an
expanded memory device?


As I have proposed before, hook it up to a PC parallel port, with loader software.  That way the code lives on the PC hard drive, and you lad whatever you want into this memory and run it.  The Z80 assembler whatever would live on the PC also.


General questions, to all:

1.) Wouldn't a simple compiler be enough? With the grunt work being
done by the PC, we are not constrained by the BPA's limits. And, with
extra memory available, we could have fairly large programs compiled.

2.) What about this concept-a simple motherboard replacement, with
some extra memory and a few features such as a way to load code into
it, and sockets for the custom chips. This would be a "kit" that
would need to be stuffed by the user.

3.) Which begs this-that costs money to get a PCB made up at a shop,
and with start-up and tooling, how many want this?

4.) Do we want a better emulator?

Obviously, a motherboard replacement would be a big labor of love-but
one that can certainly be done. We can use a PIC for the keyboard
interface, so we get the original and a PS/2 interface. SImilar to
what was done years ago by adding a keyboard and it's matrix to the
BPA.

Having come to the conclusion that high-res WITHOUT major hacking is
impossible on the BPA as it is designed, we can limit outselves to
simpler hardware projects. Just remember, we can also "borrow" ideas
from the TRS-80 community too.

Tell me what you think! BTW, we received an "8" from Maximum PC for
the Devastator, the February issue!

Jim



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--=====================_804917==_.ALT-- From ballyalley@h... Tue Feb 12 15:30:54 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 12 Feb 2002 23:30:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 64568 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2002 23:30:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2002 23:30:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.57) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2002 23:30:53 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:30:52 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:30:52 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Eight Astrocade files uploaded and notes to people Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:30:52 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2002 23:30:52.0969 (UTC) FILETIME=[4FD7F990:01C1B41D] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo February 12, 2002 I've prepared and uploaded eight new files to the discussion group, plus notice the notes to people at the bottom of this message: I created two directories in the files section: 1. Manuals 2. Assembly Source Code Note the location of some of the new files. I'll also be shuffling some files around to make them easier to find soon. 1) ballyequ.h Version 2.2 - Fixes many problems, but some still lurk in there... 2) Astrocade_MESS_keyboard-1.2.txt Version 1.2 - Oops, the Astrocade does NOT have 30 keys... just a small error fix 3) nutting_manual_project_2-1.pdf Version 2.1 - This version is searchable, is about 500K, has ALL the diagrams, and is 172 pages - what more could you ask for? Okay, it still lacks all the ROM source... 4) emulation_overlay.jpg Version 1.0 - A full-page jpg of the Astrocade keypad overlay, but modified for use with the emulator. I can't use the Astrocade emulator without this (for typing, anyway). 5) multcart.asm (Assembly Source Code directory) Version 1.2 - Multcart 4x2 source code - Used on the Astrocade multicart. This version does not have any BASIC programs included, it is just a skeleton. Good knowledge here. 6) critterp.asm Version 1.1 - Critter source - From Peek n' Poke Manual 7) peek-n-poke-manual-1-2.PDF (Manuals directory) Version 1.1 - Searchable, pdf format - Good introduction to Astrocade programming 8) peek-n-poke-manual-1-2.rtf (Manuals directory) Version 1.1 - Same as above in Rich Text format Lance - Look over the Nutting manual, source and Peek n' Poke manual (I've made some changes to it). Try the new equated file. It works great for me. Glenn Saunders - Now that we have some tools to get code going, how about following up on any interested parties over on the Stella List? Hardware People - I keep getting email from non-discussion group folks asking for PS fixes. Can an easy solution be found. Is there anyone that HAS fixed or uses an alternative PS? Software People - Lance and I are working on ML programs to run from cart. Now that the Astrocade header file is getting tidy, it makes programming easier, and now I can understand the ROM manual and use easier as an example. Those folks at DNA really had this worked out; the Astrocade's ROM sure isn't a hack. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From ballyalley@h... Tue Feb 12 15:35:38 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 12 Feb 2002 23:35:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 77835 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2002 23:35:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2002 23:35:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.62) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2002 23:35:38 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:35:38 -0800 Received: from 66.67.88.61 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:35:37 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Six dead Astrocades Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:35:37 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2002 23:35:38.0203 (UTC) FILETIME=[F9DB3AB0:01C1B41D] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [66.67.88.61] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo This is a prime example of someone with dead Astrocades. Can anyone help this person out? Adam Hi Adam: Thank you for responding to my request. I have 6 ARCADES that don't work, two of them start up and then blank out after 5-10 minutes 3 of them power up but get no graphics and one is completely dead (I think). Any help from anyone would be really really appreciated. Take good care. Rick..... ----- Original Message ----- February 12, 2002 Rick, There is no place that fixes the Astrocade. There is a PDF guide on ballyalley.com that will help, but you need hardware knowledge (I'm lacking there). What is wrong with your Astrocade? Even if you think it's toast, don't junk it- there are people on the Astrocade discussion board that can use the parts. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From komb@s... Tue Feb 12 18:08:59 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 13 Feb 2002 02:08:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 48242 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2002 02:08:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2002 02:08:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.53) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2002 02:08:57 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.251.141]) by tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020213020857.VXGP12383.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:08:57 -0500 Message-ID: <3C69CAA3.2020607@s...> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:08:35 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020205 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Eight Astrocade files uploaded and notes to people References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo wrote: > February 12, 2002 > Those folks at DNA really had this worked out; the Astrocade's ROM > sure isn't a hack. > > Adam > No, It's quite Sweet actually! :) Lance From gary@3... Sun Feb 17 17:57:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: gary@g... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 18 Feb 2002 01:57:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 96236 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2002 01:53:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2002 01:53:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rwcrmhc54.attbi.com) (216.148.227.87) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2002 01:53:28 -0000 Received: from Ggordon ([12.248.146.140]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020218015328.NPKV1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@G...> for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 01:53:28 +0000 To: Subject: RE: [ballyalley] Working Astrocades Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:55:21 -0600 Message-ID: <000201c1b81f$54a6d080$0400a8c0@G...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1B7ED.0A0F6DC0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-From: "Gary" From: "Gary" Reply-To: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=40876233 X-Yahoo-Profile: oaohy ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1B7ED.0A0F6DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Getting caught up on some email. A working Astrocade. Still going strong since 1978... Multicart #10. Ward sent it to me in time for Christmas! -----Original Message----- From: Adam Trionfo [mailto:ballyalley@h...] Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 4:36 PM To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ballyalley] Working Astrocades How many people have Astrocades that DO work? I have three, and none of them are working right. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1B7ED.0A0F6DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Getting caught up on some email.
 
A working Astrocade. = Still=20 going strong since 1978...
 
Multicart #10.&= nbsp;=20 Ward sent it to me in time for Christmas!
-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Trionfo=20 [mailto:ballyalley@h...]
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 200= 2=20 4:36 PM
To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com
Subject:=20 [ballyalley] Working Astrocades

How many people h= ave=20 Astrocades that DO work?  I have three, and none of
them are wor= king=20 right.

Adam

_______________________________________________= __________________
Send=20 and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


=
Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1B7ED.0A0F6DC0-- From glitch@m... Mon Feb 18 09:21:53 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: glitch@m... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 18 Feb 2002 17:21:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 17304 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2002 17:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2002 17:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.56) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2002 17:21:07 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.113] by n6.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2002 17:21:06 -0000 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:21:02 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Working Astrocades Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000201c1b81f$54a6d080$0400a8c0@G...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1622 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "mvknapp" X-Originating-IP: 65.27.253.241 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=47074252 X-Yahoo-Profile: mvknapp I still have my original Bally from 1978 also. I had to replace the PSU last year (thanks, Charles Taylor for getting me one). Even my Blue Ram still works although I'm trying to figure out how to upgrade it since it's one of the original 4k kits. Anybody know if I have to do anything special other than adding more RAM? I received my multicart from Ward a little over a month ago and me and my kids have been playing it ever since. If I had known how good muncher was I would have bought it "back in the day". Thanks Ward. It's a great piece of work. I definatly hope you stay with them. -Matt --- In ballyalley@y..., "Gary" wrote: > Getting caught up on some email. > > A working Astrocade. Still going strong since 1978... > > Multicart #10. Ward sent it to me in time for Christmas! > -----Original Message----- > From: Adam Trionfo [mailto:ballyalley@h...] > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 4:36 PM > To: ballyalley@y... > Subject: [ballyalley] Working Astrocades > > > How many people have Astrocades that DO work? I have three, and none of > them are working right. > > Adam > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ballyalley-unsubscribe@y... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From tfr2@a... Tue Feb 19 06:29:35 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: tfr2@a... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 19 Feb 2002 14:29:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 28839 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2002 14:29:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2002 14:29:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.61) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2002 14:29:32 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.120] by n11.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2002 14:29:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:29:31 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Working Astrocades Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 318 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "tfrevor" X-Originating-IP: 144.162.138.107 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92196736 X-Yahoo-Profile: tfrevor I have s semi-working one. It appears to work fine, except the output is all "wonky" (sort of like a television that is out of alignment). I believe that the problem may be in the RF unit, but since my knowledge of electronics is pretty much limited to changing batteries, I'm not sure. Any help or suggestions? From kzazz007@y... Tue Feb 19 06:49:44 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: kzazz007@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 19 Feb 2002 14:49:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 70603 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2002 14:49:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2002 14:49:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13605.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.116) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2002 14:49:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20020219144943.74544.qmail@w...> Received: from [209.246.92.243] by web13605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 06:49:43 PST Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 06:49:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Working Astrocades To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Kevin Zazzera X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=85723818 X-Yahoo-Profile: kzazz007 I have 2 working astrocades: my original from 1978 and one that I purchased on e-bay last fall. Both are in good working condition and I am looking forward to purchasing one of Ward's multicarts. --- mvknapp wrote: > I still have my original Bally from 1978 also. I > had to replace the > PSU last year (thanks, Charles Taylor for getting me > one). Even my > Blue Ram still works although I'm trying to figure > out how to upgrade > it since it's one of the original 4k kits. Anybody > know if I have to > do anything special other than adding more RAM? > > I received my multicart from Ward a little over a > month ago and me > and my kids have been playing it ever since. If I > had known how good > muncher was I would have bought it "back in the > day". Thanks Ward. > It's a great piece of work. I definatly hope you > stay with them. > > -Matt > > --- In ballyalley@y..., "Gary" wrote: > > Getting caught up on some email. > > > > A working Astrocade. Still going strong since > 1978... > > > > Multicart #10. Ward sent it to me in time for > Christmas! > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Adam Trionfo [mailto:ballyalley@h...] > > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 4:36 PM > > To: ballyalley@y... > > Subject: [ballyalley] Working Astrocades > > > > > > How many people have Astrocades that DO work? I > have three, and > none of > > them are working right. > > > > Adam > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: > http://mobile.msn.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com > lately? > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to: > > ballyalley-unsubscribe@y... > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From lasrtt@g... Tue Feb 19 12:14:14 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lasrtt@g... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 19 Feb 2002 20:14:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 43253 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2002 20:14:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2002 20:14:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta-1.gci.net) (208.138.130.82) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2002 20:14:11 -0000 Received: from mmp-2.gci.net ([208.138.130.81]) by mta-1.gci.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GRSQVL03.6T3 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:14:09 -0900 Received: from tinkertoy ([24.237.126.215]) by mmp-2.gci.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GRSQVJ01.92K for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:14:07 -0900 Message-ID: <001e01a8ea4a$642bf500$b89afea9@t...> To: References: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Working Astrocades Date: Fri, 4 Jan 1980 00:25:34 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01A8E9FE.F38283A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Rick & Myrna Trnka" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97891212 X-Yahoo-Profile: ricktrnka ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01A8E9FE.F38283A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi: No sugesstions but if you find someone who will fix or even try please ema= il me at lasrtt@g... Thank you very much. Rick..... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: tfrevor=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 5:29 AM Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Working Astrocades I have s semi-working one. It appears to work fine, except the output=20 is all "wonky" (sort of like a television that is out of alignment). I believe that the problem may be in the RF unit, but since my=20 knowledge of electronics is pretty much limited to changing=20 batteries, I'm not sure. Any help or suggestions? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 ADVERTISEMENT =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01A8E9FE.F38283A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi:
 No sugesstions but if you find someo= ne who=20 will fix or even try please email me at lasrtt@g.... Thank you very much.=20 Rick.....
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 tfrevor
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 5= :29=20 AM
Subject: [ballyalley] Re: Working= =20 Astrocades

I have s semi-working one.  It appears to work fi= ne,=20 except the output
is all "wonky" (sort of like a television that is o= ut of=20 alignment).

I believe that the problem may be in the RF unit, but = since=20 my
knowledge of electronics is pretty much limited to changing=20
batteries, I'm not sure.  Any help or suggestions?

<= BR>
Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01A8E9FE.F38283A0-- From ward.shrake@w... Wed Feb 20 13:02:38 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 20 Feb 2002 21:02:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 21136 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2002 21:02:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2002 21:02:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.51) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2002 21:02:34 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.134] by n1.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2002 21:02:32 -0000 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:02:24 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Working Astrocades Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000201c1b81f$54a6d080$0400a8c0@G...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2455 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.36 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Gary" wrote: > Getting caught up on some email. > > A working Astrocade. Still going strong since 1978... > > Multicart #10. Ward sent it to me in time for Christmas! Those pictures and AVI videos that Gary put online, put a big smile on my face, yesterday. I was soldering up the latest batch of carts, took a 'net break, saw the stuff he linked to, and went happily back to soldering. A day later, I'm still smiling about seeing that stuff. It even kept me from searching for a blowtorch last night, to kill one of the finished carts that failed to work, when it became obvious that I'd have to strip most of the just-installed parts back off the board to fix the bug. I even resisted the urge to run the cart over repeatedly with my truck, and just set it aside to finish off today. Seriously, I just thought it was neat to see so many miniature humans all huddled around a big screen TV, playing some obscure games about two or three times older than the kids themselves. And seeing their attention firmly focused on the screen, like they were all into it. Knowing how hard it is to hold a kid's attention for long, I think that's pretty cool in itself. Bravo to the various fine folks that made the Bally / Astrocade console itself, and the fine folks writing software for the system back in the day. They did a heck of a good job. I'm glad that we ancient collector types aren't the only people still interested in this system? It's good to see kids still like it. I'm curious about something... how many of you have or know kids that play games on your (presumably working) Bally system? My own nephews have played on mine, a time or three. I know Adam's boy plays Bally games. Gary's young relatives obviously do. Any other kids out there, that think the system has some cool games... not just humoring we old guys who like strange archaic hardware, but that really enjoy playing? What Bally games do kids like playing, in your experience? My little nephew Brandon thinks that "Space Fortress" really kicks butt. He played that for a long time, last time he was over here. Was laughing out loud quite a bit, actually, whenever the full-screen "you died" explosion happened. The game seemed to be balanced just right for his age group's short attention span, even though it gets repetitive and perhaps seems overly simplistic for some of us older, jaded types? Ward Shrake From ward.shrake@w... Wed Feb 20 14:28:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 20 Feb 2002 22:28:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 85750 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2002 22:28:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2002 22:28:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.82) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2002 22:28:19 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.120] by n32.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2002 22:28:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:28:18 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Working Astrocades Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020219144943.74544.qmail@w...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 8309 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.165 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., Kevin Zazzera wrote: > I have 2 working astrocades: my original from 1978 and > one that I purchased on e-bay last fall. Both are in > good working condition and I am looking forward to > purchasing one of Ward's multicarts. I don't want to push too much, but now is a good time if you have the money available? I made extras during this last batch, so I have a few that are either already completed or are close to it. (Besides the three that were ordered during the last batch, right now there is one multicart completed and tested, and three more almost finished.) I do plan to keep making these, for the forseeable future. I plan to make the circuit boards in small batches of a dozen or so at a time. I may or may not assemble the boards in advance, but with the boards themselves made up, that's half the battle done with. (And it does feel like one, from time to time. These each take up between eight and twelve hours of my time, since they are all 100% made by hand.) I finally got around to making myself a multicart. Believe it or not, up until now, I didn't have one for myself. (About time, Ward!) The advantage to the old system is that the customer's carts got a nice burn-in test, as I played games on their multicarts before I shipped them out. (I even have "10110100" memorized -- Wizard's DIP setting.) For you ultra hardcore collector / historically-inclined types, who may wonder later about how many of these there are, what if any things are different on each hand-made cart, and so forth... These are all hand-numbered, but I let people pick whatever number they wanted, at their whim. Surprisingly, most people did not take the next number available in the series. Most picked a number farther down the line, because it was somehow special to them. Right now one cart is in a collectors hands, officially labeled as "#69" despite the fact that only 29 exist. (Even counting the half-finished ones.) You can thank Chris Neiman for that idea; he was one of the first to order, but specifically requested number "7" instead of a lower one. He was one of the first to keep bugging me -- err, encouraged me -- to make these multicarts in the first place, so I happily complied. Because I knew some hardcore collectors would hate me for that sort of "sacrilege" (and because I'm addicted to making lists), I kept an accurate accounting of shipping dates and "batch numbers". This will help me to remember what carts were actually made first, etc, if that ever becomes an issue? I've also tracked who owns each cart, from day one. ("Cubicolor" on the Atari was a limited run, but some of those tracking its history still argue over how many were made, etc.) On my own lists, I also track what version of the software each person has. This is mostly intended for future upgrading purposes. For what it is worth, you may want to know that I included an Easter Egg (of a vague sort) in most of the recent carts. Because none of them are 100% filled with programs, there is going to inevitably be some blank space included on each EPROM. The first version or two just had blank spaces; ASCII zeroes or some such thing. At some point I decided to go ballistic and/or be silly. I typed up a 256-byte file that tells me what software version it is, what multicart it is for (since I'm making them for the Bally and the Emerson now, and maybe others at a later date), and so on. Then it has some silly message saying that a person must really be bored, to be reading that text. The most recent carts include one short program, at the very top of the memory map. This duplicates an existing program, elsewhere on the EPROM. This is not a mistake. It helps me to quickly see if a cart is working properly or not, when I'm testing it, after it is assembled. I can see if the "all zeroes" DIP setting works, and the "all ones" setting, before going on to test the individual switches. This isn't really as important on the Bally multicart, but the Emerson cart has a small daughterboard with the actual DIP switches on it, that is attached with a ribbon cable. I can assemble the main board alone, and see if it is working, thanks to having a program at "all ones". For what it is worth, I never actually made a multicart prototype for the Bally system. After I designed the Emerson multicart prototype, and saw that it did work as planned, I just drew up the final circuit design for the Bally multicart, and started etching boards. I took it on faith that it would also work, since the concepts were the same. My Bally circuit design included an 7432 "OR" chip to allow more efficient memory use. That wasn't tested in advance, but it did work as it was originally drawn up, when I later got around to including it via some wire jumpers. I ignored it at first, during the first assembly to be shown in public, but that provision was etched onto every board. The Emerson circuit has no existing circuit like that, but there are provisions etched onto the board to wire one in later, if enough programs are ever discovered that I need the extra memory. I originally etched four Bally boards, in a last-minute rush before CGE 2001. The first Bally multicart PC board to be assembled was shown at CGE 2001, primarily during the SC3 meeting on Friday. (It ended up in Jamie Fenton's hands thanks to the generosity of various folks on this message board who donated towards its cost.) I retro- fitted the more efficient memory usage into it, after CGE was over. The other three boards that were etched first, were assembled after CGE. Adam Trionfo and Mike White got two of the three. I put a socket on the fourth one, to use it for an in-house new-EPROM testing cart. Bally multicarts #1 and #2 have "CGE" etched onto the boards; Jamie's and Mike's carts, respectively. I etched Adam's name and #3 onto his. I realize some collectors will want to string me up for this, but I could not resist numbering my own in-house test cart as "#0". (As any digitally-savvy person can tell you, zero is binary's first number.) The very first carts had their numbers etched onto the boards, like the surrounding circuitry. Later ones had their numbers ground into the bare copper by hand. The latest ones have their numbers written onto the boards with a Sharpie marker. There are enough differences in the actual circuit board designs to insure that no one will be able to successfully take a later model board, and renumber it lower. I am thinking about adding another level of security to these later ones, by clear-coating the number over, and putting a thumbprint over it. So far I have not done that, but I'm considering it for later on. There have been a few minor internal changes, since the first ones were made, but the carts all operate the same. The biggest change a person might notice, from the outside, is in the plastic cases I'm using. The first three batches, if I remember correctly, all went out using real Bally cart cases; I removed the original circuit board and removed the existing label, and re-used the case itself. You can tell these early carts from the later models, because they have both a top and a bottom label. The new style cases I'm using -- because they are easily available, and the others are almost impossible to obtain -- have no flat area meant for a bottom label, so they only have a label on the upper side. I redesigned the label a little bit, when I made the change-over to this case style, but it looks basically the same. (Mike White has newly molded case halves, left over from one of the third-party software manufacturers. Those are the ones I'm using now.) All of the cases are black; none were grey or other colors. I realize that only a few hardcore collectors will care about keeping track of information like this. (Apologies to those that wonder why I am rambling on about all this?!) I'd rather write it all down now, in a place where it will be relatively safely recorded, than to try to recall all of this years from now, if and when someone tries to do research on my multicart efforts. This has the advantage of being right from the horse's mouth, while it is still fresh in my memory. Ward Shrake From douglas_t_lee@p... Thu Feb 21 07:10:27 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: douglas_t_lee@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 21 Feb 2002 15:10:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 84723 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 15:10:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2002 15:10:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.79) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 15:10:14 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.143] by n29.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2002 15:10:02 -0000 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:09:57 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Working Astrocades Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1400 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "dtlee" X-Originating-IP: 24.188.32.44 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54977169 X-Yahoo-Profile: dtlee I've had at least one Astrocade hooked up and working in my house for the past 20 years (as long as I've lived here). I am pretty sure that I have probably two or three working ones out of the four or five or six (yes I've lost count) that I have. One retains its position as the only game permanently hooked up to the main TV in the house. We still use every couple of months. My two daughters (age 15 and 11) played their first video games on that machine. They have since gone through Sega, Gameboy, and Playstation as well. Their favorites have changed through the years, but they have liked Artillery Duel, Wizard, and Amazing Maze the most. Space Fortress is also well-liked. For some reason, they aren't too interested in Muncher (aka PacMan). For years, I tried to get someone to play Soccer with me and no one would (It is definitely not a one-player game). I really think that is one of the more creative implementations of the game and it allows four players. Last week, my younger one (who plays soccer) said "I didn't know you had a Soccer game. Can we play it some time?" Since her best soccer buddy slept over last night, I may try to force them to play soccer against me later on today. Perhaps if I let them win, they will like the game (look--I am already making excuses for losing). I will post if I get any positive feedback from them. Doug From ballyalley@h... Thu Feb 21 17:32:21 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_2); 22 Feb 2002 01:32:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 56935 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2002 01:32:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2002 01:32:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.198) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2002 01:32:20 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:32:19 -0800 Received: from 24.164.182.68 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 01:32:19 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: On Soccer Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:32:19 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Feb 2002 01:32:19.0875 (UTC) FILETIME=[C4E55730:01C1BB40] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.182.68] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Soccer is an oddball. I didn't like it at first until someone ELSE was playing it and they said it seemed to be one of the best carts in the Bally's library. I didn't believe it then, but then I started playing against this fellow, and wouldn't you know it- it's true. I would have had more fun if I had won though... One of the things about the Astrocade that is/was touted as a plus always seemed to me to be a minus in some ways. I'm talking about all the ways you can configure a game. It just makes the game too different, and how can you compare scores? But Soccer, once I had it pointed out to me, does use all the options to good affect. Adam >> I've had at least one Astrocade hooked up and working in my house for the past 20 years (as long as I've lived here). I am pretty sure that I have probably two or three working ones out of the four or five or six (yes I've lost count) that I have. One retains its position as the only game permanently hooked up to the main TV in the house. We still use every couple of months. My two daughters (age 15 and 11) played their first video games on that machine. They have since gone through Sega, Gameboy, and Playstation as well. Their favorites have changed through the years, but they have liked Artillery Duel, Wizard, and Amazing Maze the most. Space Fortress is also well-liked. For some reason, they aren't too interested in Muncher (aka PacMan). For years, I tried to get someone to play Soccer with me and no one would (It is definitely not a one-player game). I really think that is one of the more creative implementations of the game and it allows four players. Last week, my younger one (who plays soccer) said "I didn't know you had a Soccer game. Can we play it some time?" Since her best soccer buddy slept over last night, I may try to force them to play soccer against me later on today. Perhaps if I let them win, they will like the game (look--I am already making excuses for losing). I will post if I get any positive feedback from them. Doug >> _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From d_wiggins@y... Fri Feb 22 23:52:26 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: d_wiggins@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 23 Feb 2002 07:52:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 86575 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2002 07:52:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2002 07:52:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10006.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.42) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2002 07:52:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20020223075225.57284.qmail@w...> Received: from [129.212.84.97] by web10006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:52:25 PST Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:52:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Working Astrocades To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-434835847-1014450745=:56425" From: David Wiggins X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=91720960 X-Yahoo-Profile: d_wiggins --0-434835847-1014450745=:56425 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii My kids have been playing daily since we recved the cart. (Thanks again, Ward. Great stuff!!!) Both like Wizard, of course who wouldn't, but they've been playing several of the others regularly too. Retro is in...... Can't think of the names off hand. Galaxia?? Something like that. The centipede look alike, and several others. commie_fan wrote: --- In ballyalley@y..., "Gary" wrote: > Getting caught up on some email. > > A working Astrocade. Still going strong since 1978... > > Multicart #10. Ward sent it to me in time for Christmas! Those pictures and AVI videos that Gary put online, put a big smile on my face, yesterday. I was soldering up the latest batch of carts, took a 'net break, saw the stuff he linked to, and went happily back to soldering. A day later, I'm still smiling about seeing that stuff. It even kept me from searching for a blowtorch last night, to kill one of the finished carts that failed to work, when it became obvious that I'd have to strip most of the just-installed parts back off the board to fix the bug. I even resisted the urge to run the cart over repeatedly with my truck, and just set it aside to finish off today. Seriously, I just thought it was neat to see so many miniature humans all huddled around a big screen TV, playing some obscure games about two or three times older than the kids themselves. And seeing their attention firmly focused on the screen, like they were all into it. Knowing how hard it is to hold a kid's attention for long, I think that's pretty cool in itself. Bravo to the various fine folks that made the Bally / Astrocade console itself, and the fine folks writing software for the system back in the day. They did a heck of a good job. I'm glad that we ancient collector types aren't the only people still interested in this system? It's good to see kids still like it. I'm curious about something... how many of you have or know kids that play games on your (presumably working) Bally system? My own nephews have played on mine, a time or three. I know Adam's boy plays Bally games. Gary's young relatives obviously do. Any other kids out there, that think the system has some cool games... not just humoring we old guys who like strange archaic hardware, but that really enjoy playing? What Bally games do kids like playing, in your experience? My little nephew Brandon thinks that "Space Fortress" really kicks butt. He played that for a long time, last time he was over here. Was laughing out loud quite a bit, actually, whenever the full-screen "you died" explosion happened. The game seemed to be balanced just right for his age group's short attention span, even though it gets repetitive and perhaps seems overly simplistic for some of us older, jaded types? Ward Shrake Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games --0-434835847-1014450745=:56425 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

My kids have been playing daily since we recved the cart.   (Thanks again, Ward.  Great stuff!!!)  Both like Wizard, of course who wouldn't, but they've been playing several of the others regularly too.  Retro is in......

 

Can't think of the names off hand.  Galaxia??  Something like that.   The centipede look alike, and several others.

  commie_fan <ward.shrake@w...> wrote:

--- In ballyalley@y..., "Gary" <gary@3...> wrote:
> Getting caught up on some email.
>
> A working Astrocade.  Still going strong since 1978...
>
> Multicart #10.  Ward sent it to me in time for Christmas!

Those pictures and AVI videos that Gary put online, put a big smile
on my face, yesterday. I was soldering up the latest batch of carts,
took a 'net break, saw the stuff he linked to, and went happily back
to soldering. A day later, I'm still smiling about seeing that stuff.

It even kept me from searching for a blowtorch last night, to kill
one of the finished carts that failed to work, when it became obvious
that I'd have to strip most of the just-installed parts back off the
board to fix the bug. I even resisted the urge to run the cart over
repeatedly with my truck, and just set it aside to finish off today.

Seriously, I just thought it was neat to see so many miniature humans
all huddled around a big screen TV, playing some obscure games about
two or three times older than the kids themselves. And seeing their
attention firmly focused on the screen, like they were all into it. 
Knowing how hard it is to hold a kid's attention for long, I think
that's pretty cool in itself. Bravo to the various fine folks that
made the Bally / Astrocade console itself, and the fine folks writing
software for the system back in the day. They did a heck of a good
job. I'm glad that we ancient collector types aren't the only people
still interested in this system? It's good to see kids still like it.

I'm curious about something... how many of you have or know kids that
play games on your (presumably working) Bally system? My own nephews
have played on mine, a time or three. I know Adam's boy plays Bally
games. Gary's young relatives obviously do. Any other kids out there,
that think the system has some cool games... not just humoring we old
guys who like strange archaic hardware, but that really enjoy playing?

What Bally games do kids like playing, in your experience? My little
nephew Brandon thinks that "Space Fortress" really kicks butt. He
played that for a long time, last time he was over here. Was laughing
out loud quite a bit, actually, whenever the full-screen "you died"
explosion happened. The game seemed to be balanced just right for his
age group's short attention span, even though it gets repetitive and
perhaps seems overly simplistic for some of us older, jaded types?

Ward Shrake



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Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games --0-434835847-1014450745=:56425-- From ward.shrake@w... Mon Feb 25 15:38:26 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 25 Feb 2002 23:38:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 51136 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2002 23:38:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2002 23:38:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.65) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2002 23:38:24 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.149] by n15.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2002 23:37:37 -0000 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:38:21 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Working Astrocades Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1204 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.251 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "dtlee" wrote: (snip) > For years, I tried to get someone to play Soccer with me and no one > would (It is definitely not a one-player game.) I talked to Mike White on the phone over the weekend, and promised him that I'd post this info for him, publicly... There are two versions of Soccer. One was never finished by the original programmer, the other was finished by a fan of the system. Depending on who you got your copy of Soccer from, and when they sold it to you, it is possible that some people have the older, unfinished version. The newer one has an option to play against the computer; the earlier one does not. Mike says that if you bought one of the old ones directly from him, he'll be happy to upgrade it to the newer one for you. If you bought it from another source, or do not have one at all but want one, he'd be happy to sell you one of his reasonably priced home-assembled Soccer carts. (Or he can make people up just about any other single cart, for that matter.) See Mike's catalog on Adam Trionfo's "Bally Alley" web site, under "ads and catalogs" for more info. http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/ Ward Shrake From jwkrych@n... Wed Feb 27 21:36:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 28 Feb 2002 05:36:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 84693 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2002 03:26:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2002 03:26:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.79) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2002 03:26:22 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.47] by n29.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2002 03:26:21 -0000 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 03:26:20 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: 32K SRAM memory project Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1202 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 24.50.231.109 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Hi All! I think that I have what I need to get a simple 3-chip 32K x 8 SRAM expansion memory for the BPA. It uses a 32k x 8 SRAM, a 74HCT138 3-8 decoder and a 74HCT32 quad 2-input OR. It will decode out at 6&7, 8&9,A&B, and C&D, so from H6000 to HDFFF Tony, since I am using ALL CMOS parts, will I be okay if I take juice from the BPA? Also, the info I am "borrowing" from mentions that the /refresh pin gates the '138, since SRAM does not need refreshing, and this is said to lower the average power requirements. Tony, I can send you this GIF I got to better explain. Thankfully, I live close to Mike White, and he can help test this. Also, guys it looks like there will be a CCAG 2002! It is tentatively scheduled for the 24 and 25th of May 2002, in Garfield Heights Ohio. This is down and dirty, since there is no way to load memory into except via a multicart that has an expanded memory program, or through a special loader via AstroBASIC. You know, if we settle on a design, hint Tony and others. We CAN produce a newer BPA motherboard with quite a few enhancements, and still save a bundle-since the custom chips are all socketed, and the Z80 is quite well available. Jim From ballyalley@h... Thu Feb 28 12:22:33 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 28 Feb 2002 20:22:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 78090 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2002 20:22:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2002 20:22:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.113) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2002 20:22:28 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:22:28 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:22:28 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] 32K SRAM memory project Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:22:28 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2002 20:22:28.0376 (UTC) FILETIME=[A463F980:01C1C095] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >> I think that I have what I need to get a simple 3-chip 32K x 8 SRAM expansion memory for the BPA. It uses a 32k x 8 SRAM, a 74HCT138 3-8 decoder and a 74HCT32 quad 2-input OR. It will decode out at 6&7, 8&9,A&B, and C&D, so from H6000 to HDFFF >> I wish I knew what this meant-- but it sounds nice. I understand the 32K part, and then, WHAM, the rest is over my head. >> Thankfully, I live close to Mike White, and he can help test this. >> I also can lend testing services. Also, Jim, if it will help, I can lend you my 16K Viper 1 and/or 16K Blue Ram. >> This is down and dirty, since there is no way to load memory into except via a multicart that has an expanded memory program, or through a special loader via AstroBASIC. >> This means the 32K expansion can't easily be used as a testing device. Large programs could be loaded in segments via the 2000 baud BASIC cart, but this would be clumsy and would go something like this: Will an 8K segment of the 32K area be able to run from the cartridge area (as with the Blue Ram)? If not, then this 32K expansion is only useful for running already written programs. Taking power from the Bally-- do you have to? I can just picture my poor Astrocade frowning about that right now. It comes down to this: a 32K expansion, with or without support for cartridge selection is needed, even if only to try programs on the multicart... >> You know, if we settle on a design [... w]e CAN produce a newer BPA motherboard with quite a few enhancements, and still save a bundle-since the custom chips are all socketed, and the Z80 is quite well available. >> I've been thinking about this motherboard swapping/replacment idea. It's growing on me. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From lasrtt@g... Thu Feb 28 12:48:16 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lasrtt@g... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 28 Feb 2002 20:48:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 79439 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2002 20:48:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2002 20:48:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta-2.gci.net) (208.138.130.83) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2002 20:48:15 -0000 Received: from mmp-2.gci.net ([208.138.130.81]) by mta-2.gci.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GS9GGD00.3YP for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:48:13 -0900 Received: from tinkertoy ([24.237.121.3]) by mmp-2.gci.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GS9GGA03.838 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:48:10 -0900 Message-ID: <000d01c1c099$1b1b7c80$ac32fea9@t...> To: References: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] 32K SRAM memory project Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:47:06 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1C04D.A5D50360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Rick & Myrna Trnka" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97891212 X-Yahoo-Profile: ricktrnka ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1C04D.A5D50360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What?????????? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Adam Trionfo=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [ballyalley] 32K SRAM memory project >> I think that I have what I need to get a simple 3-chip 32K x 8 SRAM expansion memory for the BPA. It uses a 32k x 8 SRAM, a 74HCT138 3-8 decoder and a 74HCT32 quad 2-input OR. It will decode out at 6&7, 8&9,A&B, and C&D, so from H6000 to HDFFF >> I wish I knew what this meant-- but it sounds nice. I understand the 32K= =20 part, and then, WHAM, the rest is over my head. >> Thankfully, I live close to Mike White, and he can help test this. >> I also can lend testing services. Also, Jim, if it will help, I can lend= =20 you my 16K Viper 1 and/or 16K Blue Ram. >> This is down and dirty, since there is no way to load memory into except = via=20 a multicart that has an expanded memory program, or through a special loa= der=20 via AstroBASIC. >> This means the 32K expansion can't easily be used as a testing device. = =20 Large programs could be loaded in segments via the 2000 baud BASIC cart, = but=20 this would be clumsy and would go something like this: Will an 8K segment of the 32K area be able to run from the cartridge area= =20 (as with the Blue Ram)? If not, then this 32K expansion is only useful f= or=20 running already written programs. Taking power from the Bally-- do you have to? I can just picture my poor= =20 Astrocade frowning about that right now. It comes down to this: a 32K expansion, with or without support for=20 cartridge selection is needed, even if only to try programs on the=20 multicart... >> You know, if we settle on a design [... w]e CAN produce a newer BPA=20 motherboard with quite a few enhancements, and still save a bundle-since = the=20 custom chips are all socketed, and the Z80 is quite well available. >> I've been thinking about this motherboard swapping/replacment idea. It's= =20 growing on me. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.as= p. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 ADVERTISEMENT =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1C04D.A5D50360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What??????????
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 = Adam=20 Trionfo
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 = 11:22=20 AM
Subject: Re: [ballyalley] 32K SRAM= memory=20 project

>>
I think that I have what I need to get a s= imple=20 3-chip 32K x 8 SRAM
expansion memory for the BPA. It uses a 32k x 8 SR= AM, a=20 74HCT138 3-8
decoder and a 74HCT32 quad 2-input OR. It will decode out= at=20 6&7,
8&9,A&B, and C&D, so from H6000 to=20 HDFFF
>>

I wish I knew what this meant-- but it sounds=20 nice.  I understand the 32K
part, and then, WHAM, the rest is ov= er my=20 head.

>>
Thankfully, I live close to Mike White, and he c= an=20 help test this.
>>

I also can lend testing services. = ;=20 Also, Jim, if it will help, I can lend
you my 16K Viper 1 and/or 16K = Blue=20 Ram.

>>
This is down and dirty, since there is no way to = load=20 memory into except via
a multicart that has an expanded memory progra= m, or=20 through a special loader
via AstroBASIC.
>>

This mean= s the=20 32K expansion can't easily be used as a testing device. 
Large=20 programs could be loaded in segments via the 2000 baud BASIC cart, but=20
this would be clumsy and would go something like this:

Will an= 8K=20 segment of the 32K area be able to run from the cartridge area
(as wi= th=20 the Blue Ram)?  If not, then this 32K expansion is only useful for=20
running already written programs.

Taking power from the Bally-= - do=20 you have to?  I can just picture my poor
Astrocade frowning abou= t=20 that right now.

It comes down to this: a 32K expansion, with or wi= thout=20 support for
cartridge selection is needed, even if only to try progra= ms on=20 the
multicart...

>>
You know, if we settle on a desig= n=20 [... w]e CAN produce a newer BPA
motherboard with quite a few=20 enhancements, and still save a bundle-since the
custom chips are all= =20 socketed, and the Z80 is quite well available.
>>

I've be= en=20 thinking about this motherboard swapping/replacment idea.  It's=20
growing on=20 me.

Adam

__________________________________________________= _______________
Get=20 your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.a= sp.



Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1C04D.A5D50360-- From ward.shrake@w... Thu Feb 28 12:55:23 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 28 Feb 2002 20:55:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 72850 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2002 20:55:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2002 20:55:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.62) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2002 20:55:22 -0000 Received: from [216.115.97.83] by n12.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2002 20:55:21 -0000 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:55:19 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: 32K SRAM memory project Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3537 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.65.64 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: >> I think that I have what I need to get a simple 3-chip >> 32K x 8 SRAM expansion memory for the BPA. It uses a >> 32k x 8 SRAM, a 74HCT138 3-8 decoder and a 74HCT32 quad >> 2-input OR. It will decode out at 6&7, 8&9,A&B, and C&D, >> so from H6000 to HDFFF > > > I wish I knew what this meant-- but it sounds nice. I > understand the 32K part, and then, WHAM, the rest is > over my head. It got me drooling. :-) The HCT series chips are ultra-low power requirement parts, which is good since the Bally system doesn't supply much juice out the back. The specific numbers Jim quoted are cheap, common and easy to find. The idea that it only needs three chips to work is pretty cool, too. For what it is worth, my multicart has a 74LS32 chip in it to help make the memory addressing more efficient. That's an "OR" gate chip like Jim mentioned, except his needs less juice to run. Even the LS series is pretty good on not needing too much current to feed it. Keep us informed, Jim. It sounds pretty cool so far! And while I'm thinking along these lines... any changes I need to do to the programming of the multicart to make new hardware work, I'm open to suggestions on. The plan all along was to make the multicarts upgradable (as Mike White and Adam Trionfo can already attest to), as far as program contents goes. Mike hasn't told me about anything he wants me to change on it, but he knows I'm open to suggestions. One suggestion I would like to make to potential software coders out there... write us an improved "hardware self-test" program, please! I'd gladly include it on the multicart, and if Mike White has access and permission to do so, I'm sure he'd make up single carts with such an animal on it for those that don't have or want to buy a multicart. Two self-test programs exist; one user-written called "test" runs as a normal cart. It's image is included as the first program on the multicart. (The "all zero" setting.) The program has a few limits, though... it is mainly meant to tests joysticks and such. It is neat for what it is, but I wish it did a lot more like memory tests, etc. The other test program we're just now figuring out. Adam Trionfo went ballistic (smile) and typed in the "BalCheck" ROM image file from a paper listing source, this week. I've burned the image into EPROM form, and am about to mail a copy or two off to Mike White, as well. (He has no I'net connection, so that's how we transfer binary files.) The problem with this particular program is that it works along with external hardware that we do not have. Adam says there are schematics of the device around somewhere... I'll let him chime in with that info. If a person were to write such a program, I might suggest that they consider including a "tape signal level checking" routine of some sort. (Assuming such a thing is possible on this system, etc; I'm out of my area of expertise when it comes to tapes on the Astrocade.) My goal here is to have some way of having the Bally say that a signal being sent into it, from an external tape recorder, is set at the correct tone and volume to read a tape correctly. Might be useful in trying to archive old tapes, just to be able to see a graphic bar of some kind that visually tells you when the signal is getting easier or harder to read, as you adjust the tone, volume or head alignment? Ward Shrake "Ward's Tech Corner" web site: http://home.att.net/~wards.tech.corner/ From ballyalley@h... Thu Feb 28 13:00:18 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 28 Feb 2002 21:00:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 4047 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2002 21:00:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2002 21:00:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.190) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2002 21:00:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:16 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:00:16 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] 32K SRAM memory project Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:16 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2002 21:00:16.0639 (UTC) FILETIME=[EC6170F0:01C1C09A] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >> What?????????? >> Fuller comments would allow me to answer that question. Are you surprised about the project or not understanding what it's all about? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From lasrtt@g... Thu Feb 28 13:10:14 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lasrtt@g... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 28 Feb 2002 21:10:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 77146 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2002 21:09:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2002 21:09:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta-2.gci.net) (208.138.130.83) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2002 21:09:56 -0000 Received: from mmp-2.gci.net ([208.138.130.81]) by mta-2.gci.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GS9HGI03.80J for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:09:54 -0900 Received: from tinkertoy ([24.237.121.3]) by mmp-2.gci.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GS9HGG03.H3K for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:09:52 -0900 Message-ID: <000801c1c09c$23214a60$ac32fea9@t...> To: References: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] 32K SRAM memory project Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:08:52 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C1C050.AFD25B80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Rick & Myrna Trnka" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97891212 X-Yahoo-Profile: ricktrnka ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C1C050.AFD25B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adam: Thank you for the response. How about all of the below?=20 Rick.....=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Adam Trionfo=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [ballyalley] 32K SRAM memory project >> What?????????? >> Fuller comments would allow me to answer that question. Are you surprise= d=20 about the project or not understanding what it's all about? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 ADVERTISEMENT =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C1C050.AFD25B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Adam: Thank you for the response. How a= bout all=20 of the below?
  Rick..... 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 = Adam=20 Trionfo
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 = 12:00=20 PM
Subject: Re: [ballyalley] 32K SRAM= memory=20 project

>>
What??????????
>>

Fuller=20 comments would allow me to answer that question.  Are you surprised= =20
about the project or not understanding what it's all=20 about?

Adam

_______________________________________________= __________________
Send=20 and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


=
Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C1C050.AFD25B80-- From fmillera@p... Thu Feb 28 19:37:16 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 1 Mar 2002 03:37:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 32681 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 03:37:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2002 03:37:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta7.pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 03:37:15 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.240.107]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GS900NJBZDX16@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:37:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:37:08 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] 32K SRAM memory project In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020228192755.00ab9130@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_3137010==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_3137010==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:26 AM 2/28/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Hi All! > >I think that I have what I need to get a simple 3-chip 32K x 8 SRAM >expansion memory for the BPA. It uses a 32k x 8 SRAM, a 74HCT138 3-8 >decoder and a 74HCT32 quad 2-input OR. It will decode out at 6&7, >8&9,A&B, and C&D, so from H6000 to HDFFF > >Tony, since I am using ALL CMOS parts, will I be okay if I take juice >from the BPA? Some time ago, I responded to a similar post of your (see message 559) in which I stated that you could interface a 64 K RAM with one NOR gate (if the RAM had two chip selects), otherwise one NOR gate and one OR gate. I offered to send you a PDF file of a schematic for doing it. Never heard anything more. I would not under any circumstances power anything from the internal power supply. The verbal design specification was 'design it to 80% of worst case' and clearly it was designed for even less. >Also, the info I am "borrowing" from mentions that the /refresh pin >gates the '138, since SRAM does not need refreshing, and this is said >to lower the average power requirements. > >Tony, I can send you this GIF I got to better explain. Please send me a GIF, and I'll let you know what I think. >Thankfully, I live close to Mike White, and he can help test this. >Also, guys it looks like there will be a CCAG 2002! It is tentatively >scheduled for the 24 and 25th of May 2002, in Garfield Heights Ohio. > >This is down and dirty, since there is no way to load memory into >except via a multicart that has an expanded memory program, or >through a special loader via AstroBASIC. > >You know, if we settle on a design, hint Tony and others. We CAN >produce a newer BPA motherboard with quite a few enhancements, and >still save a bundle-since the custom chips are all socketed, and the >Z80 is quite well available. I have also posted at least twice, a suggestion for doing an interface between an expanded BPA board (with lots of memory - its cheap!), a BPA, and a PC parallel port (to use the PC for game storage and development). Never heard anything from anybody on this. I was hoping to stimulate some conversation working towards a set of specifications for this thing. I will donate my time to do the design, but we all have to work out some way to get prototype boards made without getting a mortgage on the house. Someone asked if it was possible to use SRAMs instead of DRAMs to get consumer resolution. That's a great idea, and can be accomplished cheaper than trying to find 32 4027 DRAMs nowadays, but takes some design effort (so what? no big deal). Why don't we collectively come up with a dream sheet so we can start kicking around feature sets vs BOM cost? Cheers, Tony Miller >Jim > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_3137010==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 03:26 AM 2/28/2002 +0000, you wrote:
Hi All!

I think that I have what I need to get a simple 3-chip 32K x 8 SRAM
expansion memory for the BPA. It uses a 32k x 8 SRAM, a 74HCT138 3-8
decoder and a 74HCT32 quad 2-input OR. It will decode out at 6&7,
8&9,A&B, and C&D, so from H6000 to HDFFF

Tony, since I am using ALL CMOS parts, will I be okay if I take juice
from the BPA?


Some time ago, I responded to a similar post of your (see message 559) in which I stated that you could interface a 64 K RAM with one NOR gate (if the RAM had two chip selects), otherwise one NOR gate and one OR gate.  I offered to send you a PDF file of a schematic for doing it.  Never heard anything more.

I would not under any circumstances power anything from the internal power supply.  The verbal design specification was 'design it to 80% of worst case' and clearly it was designed for even less.


Also, the info I am "borrowing" from mentions that the /refresh pin
gates the '138, since SRAM does not need refreshing, and this is said
to lower the average power requirements.

Tony, I can send you this GIF I got to better explain.


Please send me a GIF, and I'll let you know what I think.


Thankfully, I live close to Mike White, and he can help test this.
Also, guys it looks like there will be a CCAG 2002! It is tentatively
scheduled for the 24 and 25th of May 2002, in Garfield Heights Ohio.

This is down and dirty, since there is no way to load memory into
except via a multicart that has an expanded memory program, or
through a special loader via AstroBASIC.

You know, if we settle on a design, hint Tony and others. We CAN
produce a newer BPA motherboard with quite a few enhancements, and
still save a bundle-since the custom chips are all socketed, and the
Z80 is quite well available.


I have also posted at least twice, a suggestion for doing an interface between an expanded BPA board (with lots of memory - its cheap!), a BPA, and a PC parallel port (to use the PC for game storage and development).  Never heard anything from anybody on this.  I was hoping to stimulate some conversation working towards a set of specifications for this thing.  I will donate my time to do the design, but we all have to work out some way to get prototype boards made without getting a mortgage on the house.

Someone asked if it was possible to use SRAMs instead of DRAMs to get consumer resolution.  That's a great idea, and can be accomplished cheaper than trying to find 32 4027 DRAMs nowadays, but takes some design effort (so what? no big deal).  Why don't we collectively come up with a dream sheet so we can start kicking around feature sets vs BOM cost?

Cheers,

Tony Miller


Jim



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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--=====================_3137010==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Thu Feb 28 19:40:59 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 1 Mar 2002 03:40:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 92381 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 03:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2002 03:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.52) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 03:40:58 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.90] by n2.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2002 03:40:58 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 03:40:58 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: BPA R-Y, B-Y to RGB converter Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 387 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "tonymillerus" X-Originating-IP: 63.199.240.107 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus In my research efforts on the BPA write up I did a month or so back, I came across a schematic of a conversion module which will convert R-Y, B-Y to RGB analog. With this, you can run your BPA on any TV set that has RGB inputs, which is true of many TVs built in the last few years. If anyone is interested, let me know and I will post it to the files area. Cheers, Tony Miller From komb@s... Thu Feb 28 19:58:17 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 1 Mar 2002 03:58:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 46882 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 03:58:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2002 03:58:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.183) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 03:58:16 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.5.97]) by tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020301035815.LSOQ785.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:58:15 -0500 Message-ID: <3C7EFC33.4040200@s...> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:57:39 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020212 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] BPA R-Y, B-Y to RGB converter References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Interested! Interested! Way long time interested.... (Interedted in memory expansion too...) tonymillerus wrote: > In my research efforts on the BPA write up I did a month or so back, I > came across a schematic of a conversion module which will convert R-Y, > B-Y to RGB analog. With this, you can run your BPA on any TV set that > has RGB inputs, which is true of many TVs built in the last few years. > If anyone is interested, let me know and I will post it to the files > area. > > Cheers, > > Tony Miller > From jwkrych@n... Fri Mar 01 15:50:22 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 1 Mar 2002 23:50:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 61366 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 23:50:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2002 23:50:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.68) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 23:50:18 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.112] by n18.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2002 23:50:33 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:50:13 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: 32K SRAM memory project Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20020228192755.00ab9130@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2427 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 68.66.44.75 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Ok, Since we are on the discussion of a dream list, let me preface this first. I think it would be very wise to have a way to replicate the custom chips of the BPA in VHDL or a similar hardware discriptor language. What I mean is this, we have a limited supply of the needed chips, and while there are plenty of Z80, and Z80 clones, the custom chips are a very finite supply, even though they are socketed and can be removed-carefully. Having said that, I have contacted someone with this express interest, however, if anyone else would like to contact an FPGA designer and such, please go ahead. We have plenty of documentation on how the chips work, and that should be enough. We are being generous too, since these custom chips don't number into the hundreds of thousands of transistors/gates. Now, to what I think should be for an "Astrocade II" Motherboard Replacement Project Let's break this down into several groups: CPU-which Z80 clone or a choice of a higher-speed capable Z80,6-8MHz Interface: use a PIC as an AT-style keyboard interface? USB? Can we get a USB port to allow us to communicate to the rest of the world? Parallel: as mentioned by Tony, we upload and download from a PC setup as a BPA server Expansion: still allow it? Power Supply will be much better!!! Light pen-removed by the USB port? Joysticks-keep the original design ports Cart port of course! Memory: I am for one very much for the use of SRAM as a replacement for the DRAM's used. We can use the very cheap 512K x 8 SRAMs as a 16K screen buffer, and the rest with CPU-bankswitching via a simple MMU can even allow a total of 4MBytes memory. The first 512K SRAM can also have an 8K chunck decoded to have as a "cart" space. Obviously, we can have the BPA come up in "consumer" mode first for compatibility, and through software, go into commercial mode and the inbetween 160 x 204 mode too. I think that if we can get the custom chips replictaed, we can "add" a few extra features for the graphics chip. The beauty of this is this, we can have a neat "Astrocade II" in the same footprint as the original BPA, with many more features and such. And, if someone does not have an original case, they can still own one and play it! (wth a lot less of the heating problems!!!) I am reminded of the many ZX80/ZX81 and speccy clones that have been made, and certainly, why not the BPA??? Okay, let's discuss! Jim From fmillera@p... Fri Mar 01 18:05:05 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 2 Mar 2002 02:05:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 57885 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 02:05:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2002 02:05:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta5.snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 02:05:04 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.96]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GSB001LZPSDH3@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:05:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:04:59 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: 32K SRAM memory project In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020301180143.00abf340@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_848429==_.ALT" References: <4.2.2.20020228192755.00ab9130@p...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_848429==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:50 PM 3/1/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Ok, > >Since we are on the discussion of a dream list, let me preface this >first. > >I think it would be very wise to have a way to replicate the custom >chips of the BPA in VHDL or a similar hardware discriptor language. >What I mean is this, we have a limited supply of the needed chips, >and while there are plenty of Z80, and Z80 clones, the custom chips >are a very finite supply, even though they are socketed and can be >removed-carefully. I would suggest using Verilog. It might be possible to use web tools such as Xilinx provides to simulate everything, but I haven't done much checking into what they offer (for free) in terms of simulation. When I did my last homebrew project, I finagled a simulator from an employer who had not paid me in a while, but that license has long expired. I was successful in compiling, place & route, etc., and entire design this way, but that design was significantly more straightforward than what we're talking about here. Cheers, Tony Miller >Having said that, I have contacted someone with this express >interest, however, if anyone else would like to contact an FPGA >designer and such, please go ahead. We have plenty of documentation >on how the chips work, and that should be enough. We are being >generous too, since these custom chips don't number into the hundreds >of thousands of transistors/gates. > >Now, to what I think should be for an "Astrocade II" Motherboard >Replacement Project > >Let's break this down into several groups: >CPU-which Z80 clone or a choice of a higher-speed capable Z80,6-8MHz >Interface: use a PIC as an AT-style keyboard interface? >USB? Can we get a USB port to allow us to communicate to the rest of >the world? >Parallel: as mentioned by Tony, we upload and download from a PC >setup as a BPA server >Expansion: still allow it? >Power Supply will be much better!!! >Light pen-removed by the USB port? >Joysticks-keep the original design ports >Cart port of course! > >Memory: I am for one very much for the use of SRAM as a replacement >for the DRAM's used. We can use the very cheap 512K x 8 SRAMs as a >16K screen buffer, and the rest with CPU-bankswitching via a simple >MMU can even allow a total of 4MBytes memory. The first 512K SRAM can >also have an 8K chunck decoded to have as a "cart" space. > >Obviously, we can have the BPA come up in "consumer" mode first for >compatibility, and through software, go into commercial mode and the >inbetween 160 x 204 mode too. > >I think that if we can get the custom chips replictaed, we can "add" >a few extra features for the graphics chip. > >The beauty of this is this, we can have a neat "Astrocade II" in the >same footprint as the original BPA, with many more features and such. >And, if someone does not have an original case, they can still own >one and play it! (wth a lot less of the heating problems!!!) > >I am reminded of the many ZX80/ZX81 and speccy clones that have been >made, and certainly, why not the BPA??? > >Okay, let's discuss! > >Jim > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_848429==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 11:50 PM 3/1/2002 +0000, you wrote:
Ok,

Since we are on the discussion of a dream list, let me preface this
first.

I think it would be very wise to have a way to replicate the custom
chips of the BPA in VHDL or a similar hardware discriptor language.
What I mean is this, we have a limited supply of the needed chips,
and while there are plenty of Z80, and Z80 clones, the custom chips
are a very finite supply, even though they are socketed and can be
removed-carefully.

I would suggest using Verilog.  It might be possible to use web tools such as Xilinx provides to simulate everything, but I haven't done much checking into what they offer (for free) in terms of simulation.  When I did my last homebrew project, I finagled a simulator from an employer who had not paid me in a while, but that license has long expired.  I was successful in compiling, place & route, etc., and entire design this way, but that design was significantly more straightforward than what we're talking about here.

Cheers,

Tony Miller

Having said that, I have contacted someone with this express
interest, however, if anyone else would like to contact an FPGA
designer and such, please go ahead. We have plenty of documentation
on how the chips work, and that should be enough. We are being
generous too, since these custom chips don't number into the hundreds
of thousands of transistors/gates.

Now, to what I think should be for an "Astrocade II" Motherboard
Replacement Project

Let's break this down into several groups:
CPU-which Z80 clone or a choice of a higher-speed capable Z80,6-8MHz
Interface: use a PIC as an AT-style keyboard interface?
USB? Can we get a USB port to allow us to communicate to the rest of
the world?
Parallel: as mentioned by Tony, we upload and download from a PC
setup as a BPA server
Expansion: still allow it?
Power Supply will be much better!!!
Light pen-removed by the USB port?
Joysticks-keep the original design ports
Cart port of course!

Memory: I am for one very much for the use of SRAM as a replacement
for the DRAM's used. We can use the very cheap 512K x 8 SRAMs as a
16K screen buffer, and the rest with CPU-bankswitching via a simple
MMU can even allow a total of 4MBytes memory. The first 512K SRAM can
also have an 8K chunck decoded to have as a "cart" space.

Obviously, we can have the BPA come up in "consumer" mode first for
compatibility, and through software, go into commercial mode and the
inbetween 160 x 204 mode too.

I think that if we can get the custom chips replictaed, we can "add"
a few extra features for the graphics chip.

The beauty of this is this, we can have a neat "Astrocade II" in the
same footprint as the original BPA, with many more features and such.
And, if someone does not have an original case, they can still own
one and play it! (wth a lot less of the heating problems!!!)

I am reminded of the many ZX80/ZX81 and speccy clones that have been
made, and certainly, why not the BPA???

Okay, let's discuss!

Jim



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--=====================_848429==_.ALT-- From ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Fri Mar 01 18:28:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 42120 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 02:28:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2002 02:28:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.72) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 02:28:57 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [216.115.96.176] by n22.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2002 02:28:56 -0000 Date: 2 Mar 2002 02:28:52 -0000 Message-ID: <1015036132.101450.84060.w85@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to ballyalley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley group. File : /convert.pdf Uploaded by : tonymillerus Description : R-Y, B-Y to RGB converter You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/convert.pdf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, tonymillerus From komb@s... Fri Mar 01 19:41:02 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 2 Mar 2002 03:41:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 21856 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 03:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2002 03:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.26) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 03:41:01 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.5.97]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020302034100.GTPU717.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:41:00 -0500 Message-ID: <3C8049A6.1030508@s...> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 22:40:22 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020212 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] New file uploaded to ballyalley References: <1015036132.101450.84060.w85@yahoogroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian ballyalley@yahoogroups.com wrote: > Hello, > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ballyalley > group. Thanks Tony! Just wish it was clearer. :( From ballyalley@h... Mon Mar 04 07:34:27 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 4 Mar 2002 15:34:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 23155 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 15:34:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2002 15:34:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.142) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 15:34:25 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 07:34:25 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:34:25 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] BPA R-Y, B-Y to RGB converter Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 07:34:25 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Mar 2002 15:34:25.0357 (UTC) FILETIME=[108F8FD0:01C1C392] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Note on the PDF "R-Y, B-Y to RGB converter" that Tony uploaded: convert.pdf - To save space, this PDF converted from 1.2 MB to 63K (with no loss of quality) If this were scanned as a B&W image instead of grayscale it would be much easier to read- but it is pretty-much readable as it is. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From fmillera@p... Tue Mar 05 13:22:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 5 Mar 2002 21:22:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 50969 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 03:22:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2002 03:22:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta7.pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 03:22:19 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.243.0]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GSH004PTDD51V@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:22:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:22:16 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] BPA R-Y, B-Y to RGB converter In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020304192156.00aa5f48@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1268874==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_1268874==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:34 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Note on the PDF "R-Y, B-Y to RGB converter" that Tony uploaded: > >convert.pdf - To save space, this PDF converted from 1.2 MB to 63K (with no >loss of quality) > >If this were scanned as a B&W image instead of grayscale it would be much >easier to read- but it is pretty-much readable as it is. That's the way I got it off the website! Cheers, Tony Miller >Adam > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_1268874==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 07:34 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, you wrote:
Note on the PDF "R-Y, B-Y to RGB converter" that Tony uploaded:

convert.pdf - To save space, this PDF converted from 1.2 MB to 63K (with no
loss of quality)

If this were scanned as a B&W image instead of grayscale it would be much
easier to read- but it is pretty-much readable as it is.


That's the way I got it off the website!

Cheers,

Tony Miller


Adam

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


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--=====================_1268874==_.ALT-- From ballyalley@h... Tue Mar 05 20:34:48 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 6 Mar 2002 04:34:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 23649 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 04:34:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2002 04:34:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.190) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 04:34:47 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:34:47 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:34:46 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Scribbling source and Ballyequ.h version 2.5 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:34:46 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2002 04:34:47.0196 (UTC) FILETIME=[3EF6F5C0:01C1C4C8] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo March 5, 2002 The source code for Scribbling, the game contained in all the Astrocades, has been uploaded to the discussion group file area. It assembles, under Zmac, to the EXACT same code as the "3159" ROM. I had to make a couple of changes for this to work (see color register changes in the source, lines 984 and 988). Today I modified Scribbling to run from cartridge (very easy change), but that source isn't available yet. I'm going to add some comments to it: it will make a good example for those that want to poke around with the Astrocade, for the game is small and manages to use the joysticks, "paddles," and keypad. No, it's not a game-- but it something. The source for Scribbling (scribble.asm) can be found at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ I have also added a couple of fixes to the Ballyequ.h file (now at version 2.5) and uploaded that file to the same area. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Tue Mar 05 21:53:13 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 6 Mar 2002 05:53:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 97861 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 16:02:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2002 16:02:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.43) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 16:02:57 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:02:56 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:02:56 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Scribbling source code Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:02:56 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2002 16:02:56.0913 (UTC) FILETIME=[37240810:01C1C45F] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo I have added the source code for "Scribbling" to the file section of the discussion group. The file is called scribble.asm and can be downloaded from: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ballyalley/files/ Scribbling is part of the Bally on-board 8K ROM and uses memory locations $E19-$1013. The output from this source file matches EXACTLY with the "3159" ROM: I compared by hand, but then used Ward's program, "Howdif," to verify that no differences exist. Only two code changes from the Scribbling source in the Nutting Manual had to be made to make the output an exact match, and these changes ARE noted in the source (the default colors in the color registers are different). As a side note, I updated ballyequ.h to version 2.5 and uploaded it to the file area too. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Wed Mar 06 11:54:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 6 Mar 2002 19:54:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 71025 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 19:45:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2002 19:45:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.147) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 19:45:38 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:45:38 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:45:38 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: 32K RAM Expansion Device Feature Wish List Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:45:38 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2002 19:45:38.0246 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D876660:01C1C547] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo 32K RAM Expansion Device Feature Wish List ------------------------------------------ I. Bare-Minimum, Absolute Must-Have, Features ------------------------------------------ These five features are essential. Without them I would not buy the upgrade. 1) Mimic a cartridge at $2000 (cartridge) area. Without this feature, the device can not be used for cartridge development purposes and I'm not sure what it would be used for other than BASIC programming, or testing ML routines. 2) Compatible with Blue RAM 16K layout (memory starts at $6000) 3) Be able to use most of the functions of the Blue RAM utility (excluding print and modem functions). If features one and two are included, then this is a given. 4) Be able to play all the games on the multicart. Again, if features one and two are included, then this is a given. 5) A reliable procedure to download software. Something HAS to be done to avoid the BASIC cartridge input. See feature one on the next list. 6) External Power Supply II. Recommended Additional Features ------------------------------- These additional features would really be useful, ALMOST essential features, but I'd buy the device even if these features could not be included. 1) PC Connection (serial?) to download programs directly into the expanded RAM, or to upload cart images directly to the PC. I almost put this feature on the "absolute" list, but then relented; I consider this feature essential but I'd buy the device (reluctantly) without it. Could the Blue Ram modem utility provide the serial software on the Bally side already? 3) A socket for an EPROM, to be used as a cartridge (if downloaded software isn't possible). Hopefully this wouldn't be needed. III. Other Bonus Features -------------------- Not needed, but these extras would be neat to see. 1) Emulated bank switching. If someone wrote a 16K or 32K Astrocade game, only people with the RAM expander could use it. There are no bank-switching cartridges (that I know of) on the Astrocade, but if larger programs are written, then maybe a feature that can emulate how a cart would do it would be useful. Somewhere down the road a cartridge could be created that could take advantage of this feature. A 32K cart in the Bally's future? Ah, just dreaming thinking out loud... 2) A small footprint would be nice. Maybe the device can stick out the back like a cartridge, rather than being connected with a ribbon cable-- but if it's going to plug into an outlet, this might be unstable. IV. Features NOT needed ------------------- I would not see the point of including any of these. 1) Printer hookup isn't needed; move software to the PC, then print it from there. The exception to this is BASIC software, which will need some type of software interpreter to print out the special characters. That's another project. 2) Before anyone asks for hi-res mode, it won't be possible with this device. So, here it is then, some specs for a device I would buy. Anyone with me? Am I totally off base? What's on your mind? Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From komb@s... Wed Mar 06 17:06:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 7 Mar 2002 01:06:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 82553 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 01:06:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2002 01:06:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.74) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 01:06:17 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.5.97]) by tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020307010616.FXQI22806.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:06:16 -0500 Message-ID: <3C86BCD0.7000903@s...> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:05:20 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020212 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Scribbling source and Ballyequ.h version 2.5 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo wrote: > March 5, 2002 > > The source code for Scribbling, the game contained in all the Astrocades, > has been uploaded to the discussion group file area. It assembles, under > Zmac, to the EXACT same code as the "3159" ROM. I had to make a couple of > changes for this to work (see color register changes in the source, lines > 984 and 988). > > Today I modified Scribbling to run from cartridge (very easy change), but > that source isn't available yet. I'm going to add some comments to it: it > will make a good example for those that want to poke around with the > Astrocade, for the game is small and manages to use the joysticks, > "paddles," and keypad. No, it's not a game-- but it something. > Way to go! If I wasen't backloged with another project right now, I'd be playing with it! From fmillera@p... Wed Mar 06 19:12:25 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 7 Mar 2002 03:12:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 87182 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 03:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2002 03:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.79) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 03:10:07 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.110] by n29.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2002 03:08:30 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 03:08:28 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: 32K RAM Expansion Device Feature Wish List Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3923 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "tonymillerus" X-Originating-IP: 63.199.240.181 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > 32K RAM Expansion Device Feature Wish List First, Glad to see someone taking a serious stab at defining a set of specifications to work from! > ------------------------------------------ > > I. Bare-Minimum, Absolute Must-Have, Features > ------------------------------------------ > > These five features are essential. Without them I would not buy the > upgrade. > > 1) Mimic a cartridge at $2000 (cartridge) area. Without this feature, the > device can not be used for cartridge development purposes and I'm not sure > what it would be used for other than BASIC programming, or testing ML > routines. > > 2) Compatible with Blue RAM 16K layout (memory starts at $6000) > > 3) Be able to use most of the functions of the Blue RAM utility (excluding > print and modem functions). If features one and two are included, then this > is a given. > > 4) Be able to play all the games on the multicart. Again, if features one > and two are included, then this is a given. > > 5) A reliable procedure to download software. Something HAS to be done to > avoid the BASIC cartridge input. See feature one on the next list. > > 6) External Power Supply > > > II. Recommended Additional Features > ------------------------------- > > These additional features would really be useful, ALMOST essential features, > but I'd buy the device even if these features could not be included. > > 1) PC Connection (serial?) to download programs directly into the expanded > RAM, or to upload cart images directly to the PC. I almost put this feature > on the "absolute" list, but then relented; I consider this feature essential > but I'd buy the device (reluctantly) without it. Could the Blue Ram modem > utility provide the serial software on the Bally side already? > > 3) A socket for an EPROM, to be used as a cartridge (if downloaded software > isn't possible). Hopefully this wouldn't be needed. > > > III. Other Bonus Features > -------------------- > > Not needed, but these extras would be neat to see. > > 1) Emulated bank switching. If someone wrote a 16K or 32K Astrocade game, > only people with the RAM expander could use it. There are no bank-switching > cartridges (that I know of) on the Astrocade, but if larger programs are > written, then maybe a feature that can emulate how a cart would do it would > be useful. Somewhere down the road a cartridge could be created that could > take advantage of this feature. A 32K cart in the Bally's future? Ah, just > dreaming thinking out loud... > > 2) A small footprint would be nice. Maybe the device can stick out the back > like a cartridge, rather than being connected with a ribbon cable-- but if > it's going to plug into an outlet, this might be unstable. > > > IV. Features NOT needed > ------------------- > > I would not see the point of including any of these. > > 1) Printer hookup isn't needed; move software to the PC, then print it from > there. The exception to this is BASIC software, which will need some type > of software interpreter to print out the special characters. That's another > project. > > 2) Before anyone asks for hi-res mode, it won't be possible with this > device. If we were to develop an FPGA equivalent, this would be quite do-able. If we were willing to remove the data & address chips from the attached BPA and transplant them to the new widget, this would also be do-able. In either case, would recommend goind with SRAM as a replacement. Cheers, Tony Miller > > > So, here it is then, some specs for a device I would buy. Anyone with me? > Am I totally off base? What's on your mind? > > Adam Trionfo > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 07 12:19:22 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 7 Mar 2002 20:19:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 3684 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 20:19:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2002 20:19:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.213) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 20:19:06 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:19:06 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:19:06 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Preamp needed for Astrocade BASIC? Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:19:06 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2002 20:19:06.0839 (UTC) FILETIME=[55281E70:01C1C615] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Is there an audiophile amongst us that can explain if a microphone preamp placed between the Astro BASIC cartridge and a tape recorder (or sound card) will make a difference in improving the chances of loading and saving programs? I'd buy one if I knew this would help. Adam _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From komb@s... Thu Mar 07 17:25:26 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 8 Mar 2002 01:25:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 77099 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 01:24:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2002 01:24:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.35) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 01:24:36 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.4.173]) by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020308012436.BGJY24599.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:24:36 -0500 Message-ID: <3C8812A8.8030206@s...> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:23:52 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020212 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Preamp needed for Astrocade BASIC? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Adam Trionfo wrote: > Is there an audiophile amongst us that can explain if a microphone preamp > placed between the Astro BASIC cartridge and a tape recorder (or sound card) > will make a difference in improving the chances of loading and saving > programs? I'd buy one if I knew this would help. > > Adam > Although I ma not an audio expert. I sincerly doubt it. Thought it might help the levels going straight to a computer... Lance From douglas_t_lee@p... Thu Mar 07 18:51:53 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: douglas_t_lee@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 8 Mar 2002 02:51:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 7089 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 02:34:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2002 02:34:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.68) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 02:34:55 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.173] by n18.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2002 02:34:42 -0000 Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 02:34:23 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Preamp needed for Astrocade BASIC? Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1136 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "dtlee" X-Originating-IP: 24.188.32.44 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54977169 X-Yahoo-Profile: dtlee In the old days, I tried lots of tricks--a super clean preamp, an equalizer with a top of the line cassette deck, even a reel-to-reel recorder at 7 1/2 inches per second. None of them worked as well as my portable Panasonic cassette recorder although the equalizer with a cassette deck worked almost as well (with Dolby off). It appears that the cassette recorder was built for erratic sound. It had a compression circuit that compensated for sounds that were too loud or too soft. I am not sure why that helped. Perhaps the sound signal from the Bally was not at a high enough level and also distorted causing amplification above a certain level to make it even less usable. Perhaps there were overtones that were masked by the poor fidelity of the Panasonic recorder. (That's why I tried the equalizer--to just selectively boost the signal frequencies while attenuating the rest). Since it was not worth the effort of carting the Bally and the TV to the stereo, I gave that up and have long forgotten what the equalizer settings were like. I doubt a straight preamp would help. Sorry I can't be more help. From fmillera@p... Thu Mar 07 19:34:57 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 8 Mar 2002 03:34:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 58941 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 03:01:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2002 03:01:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.64) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 03:01:12 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.133] by n14.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2002 03:01:31 -0000 Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 02:59:22 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Preamp needed for Astrocade BASIC? Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1596 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "tonymillerus" X-Originating-IP: 63.199.241.69 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --- In ballyalley@y..., "dtlee" wrote: As I recall, there was not a lot of design effort put into clean analog waveforms for the cassette adapter. It was only something line a resistor divider and capacitor to smooth things out a bit. So the waveforms probably don't look too terrific, and I'm not sure what kind of effort would be required to clean it up! Cheers, Tony Miller > In the old days, I tried lots of tricks--a super clean preamp, an > equalizer with a top of the line cassette deck, even a reel-to-reel > recorder at 7 1/2 inches per second. None of them worked as well as > my portable Panasonic cassette recorder although the equalizer with a > cassette deck worked almost as well (with Dolby off). > > It appears that the cassette recorder was built for erratic sound. > It had a compression circuit that compensated for sounds that were > too loud or too soft. > > I am not sure why that helped. Perhaps the sound signal from the > Bally was not at a high enough level and also distorted causing > amplification above a certain level to make it even less usable. > Perhaps there were overtones that were masked by the poor fidelity of > the Panasonic recorder. (That's why I tried the equalizer--to just > selectively boost the signal frequencies while attenuating the > rest). > > Since it was not worth the effort of carting the Bally and the TV to > the stereo, I gave that up and have long forgotten what the equalizer > settings were like. > > I doubt a straight preamp would help. Sorry I can't be more help. From jwkrych@n... Fri Mar 08 18:16:27 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 9 Mar 2002 02:16:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 31319 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 02:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2002 02:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.66) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 02:16:26 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.155] by n16.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2002 02:15:04 -0000 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 02:10:53 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: CCAG 2002!!! Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1477 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 68.66.44.75 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 For Immediate Release to all Internet and related groups! The Classic Computer And Gaming(CCAG) Show 2002 is on! "We, the CCAG organizers, regret that it took so long to officially announce the CCAG 2002 Show. However, we are also very glad that the CCAG 2001 Show did NOT take place after September 11th, 2001. Had CCAG 2001 taken place after 9-11, we would have had to cancel. Because we had used a National Guard Armory for the previous two CCAG's, we were not able to rent the Armory again after the events of 9-11. We have been able to locate and secure a facility for CCAG 2002! We again apologize for the delay, as we were only able to know with certainty, in the past several days. See you all at the CCAG 2002!!!" CCAG 2002 Staff The Classic Computer And Gaming Show 2002 will be held on May 25th, 2002 from 8AM till 2 PM. Vendor setup is on the 24th from 5:30PM till 9PM, and from 6:30AM till 8AM on the 25th. Show location is at the St. John Lutheran Church, 11333 Granger Road, Garfield Hts. Ohio, 44125. Here is our own site for more information and current status of vendors and attendees. www.ccagshow.com Table rental is $5 this year, and admission is only $2. The admission fee will also allow you to be eligeble for a drawing at 1PM, the 25th, for an Arcade machine! (You will need a way to take the machine home with you!) The web site, www.ccagshow.com, has site info, table layouts, map info, etc. We hope to see you there at the CCAG 2002! From komb@s... Sun Mar 10 08:52:14 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 10 Mar 2002 16:52:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 93090 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2002 16:52:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2002 16:52:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.56) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2002 16:52:12 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.251.113]) by tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020310165212.YYAM811.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:52:12 -0500 Message-ID: <3C8B8F10.6090905@s...> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:51:28 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020212 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Basic Cart scan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Can anybody send me a scan of the original (No tape interface) BASIC cart? Also, has anyone seen/have the box for the "Bally/Home Library Computer"? Please also send picture or discription. These are to be included in the HTML FAQ. Much Thanks Lance P.S. The Computer section is still in a holding pattern. Sorry. :( From lasrtt@g... Sun Mar 10 11:38:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lasrtt@g... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 10 Mar 2002 19:38:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 1728 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2002 19:38:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2002 19:38:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta-2.gci.net) (208.138.130.83) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2002 19:38:17 -0000 Received: from mmp-1.gci.net ([208.138.130.80]) by mta-2.gci.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GSRVVS01.ZI3 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:38:16 -0900 Received: from tinkertoy ([24.237.119.129]) by mmp-1.gci.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GSRVVQ01.J1U for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:38:15 -0900 Message-ID: <001101c1c86b$061ffca0$07cafea9@t...> To: References: <3C8B8F10.6090905@s...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Basic Cart scan Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:37:32 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C1C81F.95920280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Rick & Myrna Trnka" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97891212 X-Yahoo-Profile: ricktrnka ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C1C81F.95920280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Lance: Please clarify what it is that you want, I have a few of these carts. but= am not clear on what you'r asking for. Just a scan of the outside/inside o= r somethinf else. Please advise.=20 Thanks Rick.....=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lance F. Squire=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 7:51 AM Subject: [ballyalley] Basic Cart scan Can anybody send me a scan of the original (No tape interface) BASIC cart= ? Also, has anyone seen/have the box for the "Bally/Home Library Computer"? Please also send picture or discription. These are to be included in the HTML FAQ. Much Thanks Lance P.S. The Computer section is still in a holding pattern. Sorry. :( Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 ADVERTISEMENT =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C1C81F.95920280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Lance:
  Please clarify what it is that you = want, I=20 have a few of these carts. but am not clear on what you'r asking for. Just = a=20 scan of the outside/inside or somethinf else. Please advise.
       = Thanks=20 Rick..... 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 Lance F. S= quire=20
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 7:51= =20 AM
Subject: [ballyalley] Basic Cart=20 scan

Can anybody send me a scan of the original (No tape=20 interface) BASIC cart?

Also, has anyone seen/have the box for the= =20 "Bally/Home Library Computer"?

Please also send picture or=20 discription.

These are to be included in the HTML FAQ.

Much= =20 Thanks

Lance

P.S. The Computer section is still in a holdin= g=20 pattern. Sorry. :(



Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C1C81F.95920280-- From komb@s... Sun Mar 10 13:50:49 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 10 Mar 2002 21:50:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 98505 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2002 21:50:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2002 21:50:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.4) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2002 21:50:45 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.251.113]) by tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020310215045.PUPC8059.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:50:45 -0500 Message-ID: <3C8BD509.9090202@s...> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:50:01 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020212 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Basic Cart scan References: <3C8B8F10.6090905@s...> <001101c1c86b$061ffca0$07cafea9@t...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Rick & Myrna Trnka wrote: > Hi Lance: > > Please clarify what it is that you want, I have a few of these carts. > but am not clear on what you'r asking for. Just a scan of the > outside/inside or somethinf else. Please advise. > > Thanks Rick..... > a scan of the front (label side) of an original (No tape interface) Bally BASIC cart. Thanks. Lance From ward.shrake@w... Sun Mar 10 13:59:03 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 10 Mar 2002 21:59:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 54036 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2002 21:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2002 21:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.70) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2002 21:59:02 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.115] by n20.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2002 21:44:04 -0000 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:58:59 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Preamp needed for Astrocade BASIC? Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3720 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.253 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Is there an audiophile amongst us (snip) No offense meant, but that's almost a trick question in itself. The term "audiophile" may not mean what you think it does; depending on its context and whom you're talking to, it could mean many things. In some circles, "Audiophile" can be a term of derision, akin to "voodoo practicioner" or "witch doctor". In others, it is a status symbol. I won't beat this tangent to death, but it can almost be compared to the term "hacker". That term evolved over time as it went from being used strictly by insiders to a more public, general usage, often by those not clued-in. It didn't always mean "low-life scum that wants to break-and-enter and cause mischief on computer networks". At one time it was used to describe people who ran ultra-complicated model railroad layouts, then fell into more general computer usage with the meaning that a person simply wanted to investigate and learn. After the media got ahold of it, it is now almost synonymous with criminal. Same with "disgruntled" ... dictionary meaning is "unhappy" but the media uses it to describe workplace mass-murderers. Go figure? But getting back to the real question... Personally, my first suggestion would be just to try to match the peak-to-peak voltage levels going into the Bally's tape inputs. See how far you get by throwing a volt meter or a gauge on the input line, to see what voltage levels the Bally seems to like the best. Audiophiles looking for higher fidelity from various audio equipment components routinely match low-level voltage output levels to insure fair comparisons, between output components such as CD players. Three volts out on one CD Player is presumably equal to the same source recording being output at three volts on a competing CD Player, etc, thereby eliminating that as a potential variable in the overall test. In other words, I'm saying to concentrate more on signal strength at first, rather than on the overall shape of the waveform itself. In that regard I think the preamp idea might have some validity, all other things being equal, if it allows you to adjust peak voltages. A lot of older, Bally-era tape players had "volume" adjustments on all their tape outputs, and many modern-day tape players are fixed- level, so I think that retro-fitting such a thing has potential? By now most of these tape player's heads are worn beyond any real use, and most likely need a serious degaussing (demagnetizing) as well. One thing to watch out for, though, would be to radically amplify a waveform with an inappropriate amplifier. I've seen kids try to feed the "speaker output" (higher voltage and current) outputs through a stereo's input section, hoping to radically increase stereo output. It does that to some degree, but it also radically distorts the shape of the waveform at the same time. The waveform's peaks all push way past their normal limits, as it were. There is nowhere left to "grow" at some point, the peaks hit a theoretical ceiling and a floor, and the output waveform ends up being "clipped" on the top and bottom. Your music ends up as what a buddy once called "modulated pink noise". You can end up with a formerly analog waveform that is now the rough equivalent of a digital "square wave". Commodore Business Machines did this on purpose in their computer tape devices, to get a truly binary set of "zero" and "one" signals, but that doesn't apply here. I'd say not to forget tape head alignment in all this, but someone would probably slap me. :-) Ward Shrake "Ward's Tech Corner" web site: http://home.att.net/~wards.tech.corner/ From lasrtt@g... Sun Mar 10 19:56:46 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lasrtt@g... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 11 Mar 2002 03:56:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 20055 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 03:56:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2002 03:56:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta-1.gci.net) (208.138.130.82) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 03:56:45 -0000 Received: from mmp-2.gci.net ([208.138.130.81]) by mta-1.gci.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GSSIY400.J8V for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:56:28 -0900 Received: from tinkertoy ([24.237.123.104]) by mmp-2.gci.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GSSIY403.I58 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:56:28 -0900 Message-ID: <000d01c1c8b0$9950e760$07cafea9@t...> To: References: <3C8B8F10.6090905@s...> <001101c1c86b$061ffca0$07cafea9@t...> <3C8BD509.9090202@s...> Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Basic Cart scan Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:55:10 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1C865.1A6A22E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Rick & Myrna Trnka" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=97891212 X-Yahoo-Profile: ricktrnka ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1C865.1A6A22E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Lance:=20=20=20=20=20 Here ut is, sorry it took so long my wifie wanted to go see We Where Sol= iders. I didn't to many old memories. Anyway if you can go see it, almost l= ike being there again. The other casette is a tape. Take good care Rick..... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lance F. Squire=20 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Basic Cart scan Rick & Myrna Trnka wrote: > Hi Lance: >=20 > Please clarify what it is that you want, I have a few of these carts.= =20 > but am not clear on what you'r asking for. Just a scan of the=20 > outside/inside or somethinf else. Please advise. >=20 > Thanks Rick.....=20 >=20 a scan of the front (label side) of an original (No tape interface)=20 Bally BASIC cart. Thanks. Lance Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 ADVERTISEMENT =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1C865.1A6A22E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Lance:     <= /DIV>
   Here ut is, sorry it took so = long my=20 wifie wanted to go see We Where Soliders. I didn't to many old memories. An= yway=20 if you can go see it, almost like being there again. The other casette is a= =20 tape.
     Take good care=20 Rick.....
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 Lance F. S= quire=20
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 12:50= =20 PM
Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Basic Ca= rt=20 scan

Rick & Myrna Trnka wrote:
> Hi Lance:
>= ;=20
>   Please clarify what it is that you want, I have a fe= w of=20 these carts.
> but am not clear on what you'r asking for. Just a s= can=20 of the
> outside/inside or somethinf else. Please advise.
>= =20
>         Thanks Rick.....= =20
>


  a scan of the front (label side) of an origin= al=20 (No tape interface)
Bally BASIC
 =20 cart.

Thanks.

Lance




Have=20 you checked http://www.ballyalley.c= om=20 lately?

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1C865.1A6A22E0-- From ward.shrake@w... Sun Mar 10 22:50:24 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 11 Mar 2002 06:50:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 89248 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 06:50:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2002 06:50:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.80) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 06:50:22 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.182] by n30.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2002 06:50:22 -0000 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:50:19 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Cartridge listing Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1235 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.68.61 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan For what it is worth, Adam has been quietly revising Mike White's excellent cartridge FAQ listing, and I've spent most of today adding my two cents to it. If I do say so myself, it looks pretty darned good! I spent hours going through every arcade game ever made by Midway, and then Bally / Midway in that time period, adding it into the FAQ wherever it seemed appropriate. (The KLOV kicks butt!) Did you know that "Checkmate" is an arcade port? You might have known that "Gun Fight" was, but Checkmate took me by surprise. A number of others like that, pleasantly surprised me... even "Amazing Maze" began its life as an arcade port, as did many others. Cool trivia?! And "Demolition Derby" went on to improve itself, in the arcades. And by the way, here's a kicker for ya... people always say that Bally did not own the rights to Pac-Man, so Muncher was illegal and unsellable. Not really true... guess who made the arcade original? Same with Space Invaders... Midway had a version in the arcades that was just as legit as the official Taito release. So why change the name of the program, and act as if they were not a real licensee? There is definitely a mystery or two at the bottom of all of this!? Ward Shrake From bbauer@n... Mon Mar 11 04:30:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: bbauer@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 11 Mar 2002 12:30:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 71793 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 12:30:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2002 12:30:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail7.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.54) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 12:30:18 -0000 Received: from johndoe ([66.26.242.251]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:30:15 -0500 Message-ID: <002901c1c8f9$365e34c0$0100a8c0@j...> To: References: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Cartridge listing Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:35:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Return-Path: bbauer@n... From: "Ben Bauer" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77764746 X-Yahoo-Profile: bbauer3676 I once met a guy in the Arcade business that insists Bally Killed the Bally Arcade because they thought it would eventualy eat into thier arcade revenue. It appears that Bally was realy scared when some of the ported games looked better then the original black and white originals. Maybe this is the heart of the mystery? Ben Bauer ----- Original Message ----- From: "commie_fan" To: Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 1:50 AM Subject: [ballyalley] Cartridge listing > For what it is worth, Adam has been quietly revising Mike White's > excellent cartridge FAQ listing, and I've spent most of today adding > my two cents to it. If I do say so myself, it looks pretty darned > good! I spent hours going through every arcade game ever made by > Midway, and then Bally / Midway in that time period, adding it into > the FAQ wherever it seemed appropriate. (The KLOV kicks butt!) > > Did you know that "Checkmate" is an arcade port? You might have known > that "Gun Fight" was, but Checkmate took me by surprise. A number of > others like that, pleasantly surprised me... even "Amazing Maze" > began its life as an arcade port, as did many others. Cool trivia?! > And "Demolition Derby" went on to improve itself, in the arcades. > > And by the way, here's a kicker for ya... people always say that > Bally did not own the rights to Pac-Man, so Muncher was illegal and > unsellable. Not really true... guess who made the arcade original? > > Same with Space Invaders... Midway had a version in the arcades that > was just as legit as the official Taito release. So why change the > name of the program, and act as if they were not a real licensee? > > There is definitely a mystery or two at the bottom of all of this!? > > Ward Shrake > > > > Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From ballyalley@h... Mon Mar 11 05:22:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 11 Mar 2002 13:22:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 46404 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 13:22:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2002 13:22:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.155) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 13:22:18 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:22:18 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:22:17 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Cartridge listing Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:22:17 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Mar 2002 13:22:18.0342 (UTC) FILETIME=[C4955060:01C1C8FF] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >> And by the way, here's a kicker for ya... people always say that Bally did not own the rights to Pac-Man, so Muncher was illegal and unsellable. Not really true... guess who made the arcade original? >> Bally didn't own the Bally Professional Arcade anymore by the time Muncher was released. The new owner, Astrovision/Astrocade, was a completely different company and they had nothing at all to do with Midways's license of Namco's game Pacman. This new company would have had to license the game from Namco, and this would have been AFTER Pac-man 'fever' swept the U.S.; that license probably would not have come cheaply. After the sale by Bally, some games were renamed when they were re-released by the new company, for instance: Space Invaders became Astro Battle and Galaxian became Galactic Invaders (these games were licensed to Bally/Midway, not created by them). When Bally sold the BPA, the Bally custom chip set wasn't even included (as noted by Tom Meeks in this discussion group). I've not read any clear indication of what rights did come with the sale of the BPA, but it makes sense that games that Bally didn't create were not included. Is there any way to check on Bally's sale of the BPA? Would this be part of public records? The Wall Street Journal was keeping tabs on it in the beginning of the 1980's; where would they have gotten the information? Adam Trionfo _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From komb@s... Mon Mar 11 22:02:05 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 12 Mar 2002 06:02:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 99684 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 06:02:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2002 06:02:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.25) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 06:02:03 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.251.113]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020312060202.LFSG713.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:02:02 -0500 Message-ID: <3C8D99B1.6060508@s...> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:01:21 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Cartridge listing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian commie_fan wrote: > For what it is worth, Adam has been quietly revising Mike White's > excellent cartridge FAQ listing, and I've spent most of today adding > my two cents to it. If I do say so myself, it looks pretty darned > good! I spent hours going through every arcade game ever made by > Midway, and then Bally / Midway in that time period, adding it into > the FAQ wherever it seemed appropriate. (The KLOV kicks butt!) > Um.. Ya! Already linked in my list. > Did you know that "Checkmate" is an arcade port? You might have known > that "Gun Fight" was, but Checkmate took me by surprise. Ya, Played it when it was new! (dating self :( ) >A number of > others like that, pleasantly surprised me... even "Amazing Maze" > began its life as an arcade port, as did many others. Cool trivia?! Amazing Maze caught me by suprise to. > And "Demolition Derby" went on to improve itself, in the arcades. > Is it really the same game? > And by the way, here's a kicker for ya... people always say that > Bally did not own the rights to Pac-Man, so Muncher was illegal and > unsellable. Not really true... guess who made the arcade original? > > Same with Space Invaders... Midway had a version in the arcades that > was just as legit as the official Taito release. So why change the > name of the program, and act as if they were not a real licensee? True Bally/Midway owned the 'Coin-op' rights to PacMan (c)Namco, Space Invaders (c)Tatio and Galaxian (c)Namco. Unfortunatly, Atari (Unexpectedly) aquired the 'Home' rights to PacMan and Galaxian from Namco. As before this, 'Home' rights were never a question. This caused Bally and a few others to have to change the names of several games they didn't own the Home Rights to. (See history of Emerson Arcadia) Lance F. Squire http://www.alteeve.com/~lance/Ballyfaq.html From jwkrych@n... Wed Mar 13 14:13:15 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 13 Mar 2002 22:13:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 64241 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 22:13:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2002 22:13:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.77) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 22:13:14 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.123] by n27.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2002 22:13:14 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:13:12 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Great News!!! Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1078 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 68.66.44.195 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Okay gang! This is what I have been hoping for. An engineer at work is an expert in VHDL and is interested in replicating the custom chips of the BPA!! Okay, I am getting all the docs I know of, to send him. Tony, your help will be MOST appreciated in this. I am going to have Matt join this group. He's 26 and at least remembers the BPA. He is already into emulation for the Atari 8-bit line. I am also going to look at getting the MAME source code for the Astrocade chipset code. Hey, where is that guy who wrote the MESS driver for the Astrocade??? His code would very much help Matt out! This is going to allow us what the old Astrcade could never do. We can have our motherboard replacement!!! And, also have it in high- res!!! Plus a few other items and such! Us hardware guys will need to get together, however, Adam, Lance, and the rest(I'll be in contact with Mike White), let's discuss what we would like to have for a motherboard replacement. And once finalized, that would be it-creeper features are not wanted in this! Okay gang! Here goes!!! Jim From palazzol@c... Wed Mar 13 20:17:49 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@c... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 14 Mar 2002 04:17:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 64184 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2002 04:17:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2002 04:17:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.comcast.net) (24.153.64.2) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2002 04:17:45 -0000 Received: from pagels (pcp01182125pcs.strl1201.mi.comcast.net [68.60.202.189]) by mtaout45-02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GSY007293XKRP@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:17:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:17:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Great News!!! In-reply-to: To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <3C8FDE05.19238.5224D77@l...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal From: Frank Palazzolo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=99293129 X-Yahoo-Profile: knarfian > Hey, > where is that guy who wrote the MESS driver for the Astrocade??? His > code would very much help Matt out! He's still here :) The code is available from www.mess.org. The best reference to the innards of those chips is a combination of the Nutting Manual, and U.S. Patent #4301503. The patent contains mostly-complete logic digrams for the chips. While developing some of the emulator code, I had printed out all the relevant pages and scotch-taped them all together to create big drawings. I still don't have the noise-generator implemented correctly, but I've had little time for such things lately...with a new son and all. Good luck if someone has the time to do this. Let me know if you have questions and I can try to answer them, albeit slowly... -Frank From jwkrych@n... Thu Mar 14 02:15:12 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 14 Mar 2002 10:15:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 58987 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2002 10:15:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2002 10:15:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.61) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2002 10:15:11 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.39] by n11.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2002 10:15:11 -0000 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:15:08 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Great News!!! Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3C8FDE05.19238.5224D77@l...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 263 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 68.66.44.195 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Thanks Frank! I am sending Matt the reference US Patent you mentioned. I have tried to get the source code from the site mentioned and no go. Do you still have those files on the patent, or can I go to the Patent OIffice Site and pull the needed files? Jim From palazzol@c... Thu Mar 14 04:30:32 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@c... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 14 Mar 2002 12:30:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 42987 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2002 12:30:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2002 12:30:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.comcast.net) (24.153.64.2) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2002 12:30:24 -0000 Received: from pagels (pcp01182125pcs.strl1201.mi.comcast.net [68.60.202.189]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GSY005QDQQNLS@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:30:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:30:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Great News!!! In-reply-to: To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <3C905179.23658.6E55EC6@l...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal References: <3C8FDE05.19238.5224D77@l...> From: Frank Palazzolo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=99293129 X-Yahoo-Profile: knarfian > I have tried to get the source code from the site mentioned and no go. Hmm...works for me - under win32, clicking on the word "Core" in the source column. > Do you still have those files on the patent, or can I go to the > Patent OIffice Site and pull the needed files? I did a quick search, but it looks like I dont have them any more. However, you can go to here: http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html then search by number, and click on "images" at the bottom. I just did this and I now had to install a tiff viewer plugin for IE in order to see the images. The site says to use the one from here: http://www.alternatiff.com/ Worked for me. Good luck, Frank From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 14 04:35:18 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 14 Mar 2002 12:35:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 77999 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2002 12:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2002 12:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.162) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2002 12:35:18 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:35:18 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:35:17 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Astrocade patent Link Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:35:17 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2002 12:35:18.0259 (UTC) FILETIME=[B2EC0C30:01C1CB54] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo The link for the Astrocade patent 4301503 has been at Bally Alley since October 26, 2000: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/links.html The actual link to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office is: http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='4301503'.WKU.&OS=PN/4301503&RS=PN/4301503 The page will seem like it's only a text version of the document, but there is more. If you click on the Images button, you can view the whole document (including the drawings), one page at a time, using Quicktime. There is a LOT of stuff in there. It would be much better if the pages were pdf, but they're not. You can also order the document directly from the site (but not in an electronic version, only paper format). Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From matt_01000010@y... Fri Mar 15 19:48:50 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: matt_01000010@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 16 Mar 2002 03:48:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 20957 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 03:48:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2002 03:48:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.53) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 03:48:49 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.164] by n3.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2002 03:48:49 -0000 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 03:48:46 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Great News!!! Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4857 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "matt_01000010" X-Originating-IP: 162.40.59.102 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=105823670 X-Yahoo-Profile: matt_01000010 > This is what I have been hoping for. An engineer at work is an > expert in VHDL and is interested in replicating the custom chips > of the BPA!! First post from said expert ;) I've looked over the patent, nutting manual, and bpa.pdf from tony. I think I have a decent idea of what the system hardware's doing (there are a few holes I still need filled listed below). Here's what I have in mind so far: 1) The entire logical system can be replicated in an FPGA (probably a Xilinx Spartan2 200 (which costs ~$24)). This means Z80 soft core processor, microcyclor (plus misc bus glue logic), address chip, data chip and i/o chip all in one chip. I like VHDL so that would be my perfered choice for coding. 2) System ROM and video RAM can be replaced by one 256Kb (32KB) FRAM. FRAM is produced by Ramtron (www.ramtron.com). It is a non- volatile memory with unlimited write cycles. The part I had in mind is FM18L08 which has an 8 bit data bus and 130ns cycle times. This part costs around $6. This will require some modification of the microcyclor but should be transparently implementable with respect to the Z80 code. 32KB would be enough for 16KB for the System ROM and 16KB for the Video RAM; doubling both from the current specs. 3) There will need to be a few voltage translation parts (244s or 245s) for external signals going to the cassette, expansion port, controllers, and keypad. The new system will be 3.3V but any legacy components pluged into the BPA board will need to be driven at 5V signal levels (I assume we're interfacing with CMOS not TTL parts). 4) The power supply will need to be able to supply +5, +3.3, and +2.5. We can probably use an of-the-shelf switching power supply brick and run directly off line. Another other option would be to get a wall transformer and some regulators. 5) There is some other analog circuitry that will need to be on the board for the video, audio, and controllers. Here are some holes I need filled in: 1) What is the actual clock speed in the system? The system clock is listed as 1.7MHz in the service manual. Is this correct and exact? (Note that we no longer will need the pxclk since the DRAM is removed.) Also, does anyone know what frequencies can be generated from the music processor? I'm guessing that the game code is relying on the fact that the processor runs at a certain speed. I've not seen a timer circuit so my guess is delays are implemented with for loops. Therefore, a change in the system speed will result in a proportional change in game speed. We probably want to emulate the system as close to orginal as possible then. 2) Jim mentioned that there are changes to the video output (conversion of the RF to composite or s-video). Do we want to incorperate these changes directly into the system and bypass the translation. 3) The i/o chip has an adc for the controller pot reading. Does someone have a circuit for the pot? I think we can probably use a TI adc but I need to know hows it actually is hooked up. Another option would be to modify the controllers to output digital pwm signal. I don't know if this is feasible or not. 4) What's the plan for getting actual hardware? Does anyone have PCB design tools? Equipment for SMT work? Know of a board house to build and/or assemble boards? Some random thoughts for additional features: 1) Memory expansion. Memory is cheap (as compared to 1978) so why bother switching cassettes when one flash chip could store every game ever made 10 times over. A feature could be added to switch a sector of memory in and out depending on which image you'd like to run. This memory could be physically on the board or a removeable card, such as compact flash or a PSX/PS2 memory card. The latter would be my choice because it's designed for a gaming enviroment. (Legal issues of course may exist.) A menu system could be added to the System ROM to list the avaliable games on the memory card. 2) Controller alternitives. We could modify the controller inputs to something a little more ergonomic or cool. The former being add a port for a PSX/PS2 controller, the latter being Jim's Devastator. A controller frontend can be added to translate either controllers inputs to the ones expected by the BPA. 3) Networking or USB. Ick! Too much work for the first go!! Put down the crack pipe and smell the coffee!!! If you haven't guessed, I don't think we want to tackle either of these deceptively easy sounding features right now. They're not as easy as they sound (I know from personal experience and have the scars to prove it). This would be a nice add-on once we're all tired of playing on our nice shiny new BPA's and are looking for another challege. This should be a fun project. Let's get started ;) Matt From ballyalley@h... Sun Mar 17 05:47:24 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 17 Mar 2002 13:47:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 57082 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 13:47:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2002 13:47:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.113) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 13:47:21 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 05:05:58 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:05:58 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Astrocade emulator RAM save? Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 05:05:58 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2002 13:05:58.0412 (UTC) FILETIME=[50909CC0:01C1CCEB] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo Using the MESS emulator, how can I save the Astrocade RAM as a 4K file? I created a cart image that places hex values $12,$34,$56,$78,$90 starting at address $4000 (first byte of Astrocade RAM), and then, while running the Astrocade emulator, I was able to find the start of the Astrocade's memory using my editor (Win Hex) and then searching my computer's RAM for the aobve hex string. I thought the option in MESS "Save State" would save RAM as a file, but if it does, then I can't find the file. I NEED this feature, can't someone help me out? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From ward.shrake@w... Mon Mar 18 12:07:56 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 18 Mar 2002 20:07:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 61732 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 20:07:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2002 20:07:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.67) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 20:07:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.188] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2002 20:07:52 -0000 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:07:50 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Cartridge listing Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3C8D99B1.6060508@s...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 8941 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.39 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Lance F. Squire" wrote: (snip) > True Bally/Midway owned the 'Coin-op' > rights to PacMan (c)Namco, Space > Invaders (c)Tatio and Galaxian (c) > Namco. Unfortunatly, Atari > (Unexpectedly) aquired the 'Home' > rights to PacMan and Galaxian from Namco. > > As before this, 'Home' rights were never > a question. This caused Bally and a few > others to have to change the names of > several games they didn't own the Home > Rights to. (See history of Emerson Arcadia) Hey, you mean somebody actually read the stuff I wrote about the half- as-popular-as-the-Bally-BPA "Emerson Arcadia 2001" system? Coolness! Seriously, I think that is a perfect analogy, though, and would have brought it up in this (interesting) discussion if Lance hadn't. My big thing, lately, is trying to make known historical events fit into a bigger, wider context. I'm trying to backwards engineer what we know of gaming history, to find the "why" in terms of human needs and wants. To find the "cause and effect" relationships that were in place during a certain time period, based on physchology, common sense and the realities of the day. I'm looking at it as if it were a foreign culture from a different time period... because it really is. I feel that modern game historians need to tread very lightly when discussing home rights, arcade rights, and so on, for games of this period IF they truly want to understand the dynamics of why certain things took place. Historically, that thinking exists now but was just beginning to evolve during the time period we're discussing, so jumping to that conclusion prevents good understanding, in my view. It's vaguely like digging up a Native American ball-based gaming area, and trying to understand it in terms of the modern SuperBowl. You have to push modern thinking aside, and think in their terms. The idea of owning and enforcing game "rights" was unheard of until Atari (and others) began paying big bucks to license games, and then enforcing their rights by taking people to court. The idea of owning the rights to some game, and being able to prevent others from selling a game that looked and felt similar was still being invented in the early 1980's, and many companies of the period thought that it was pure legal insanity to claim you owned the idea behind some game. It was widely felt that as long as your object code was different, that what was seen or heard could be identical to a competitor's game. In other words, you could copy a competitors product or idea to some degree, but not totally. If you limited yourself a bit and did not go beyond some unspoken law's boundaries, that was good enough. >From what I've seen, back in the electro-mechanical arcade game era that preceeded modern video games, it was a big struggle just to find a legal niche in the marketplace, since many people thought of such games as illegal gambling devices. As such, they were often banned in some areas and could be taken or destroyed by the police when found. In that era, with that thinking, the VERY LAST thing that would occur to one competitor would be to take a fellow competitor to court, to try to say that they'd copied a game you made. The most likely result would be for you both to go to jail, both of you being fined, both of you having all of your game property seized, and your factories both being closed down. Things like the police and the court system were seen as the enemy, back then. If you had a problem with a competitor, you settled it amongst yourselves, quietly. You did not call the cops. There was likely a balance; unspoken rules that had evolved over a number of decades of marketplace competition. You had to know that if you did anything really nasty to your competitors, that they'd do it back to you, sooner or later. This implies that you had to self-limit your marketplace aggression, at least to some degree, if you wanted to survive very long in the marketplace. Here's where I see things radically diverging, and why. One of the biggest assumptions underlying the future planning of a company that existed in the electro-mechanical era was the idea that arcade companies were around for the long haul. Generations could actually call it a family business. You grew up in the business, just as your competitors did. You likely knew their names, and they knew about you. If they went out of business, there was a face attached. Video games were a short-term thing. Many people saw them as a fad, doomed to die a horrible marketplace death, no matter what happened. The bottom might drop out of the entire video game market next week, so you'd better get something good onto the market today, and hope to profit from it before the overall bubble burst. On top of that, some companies were quoted in reliable sources as saying that any given new video game had a shelf-life measured in weeks, or months at the most, and then sales would taper off to the point where you could not sustain yourself as a business entity, based on that single product. Those two ways of looking at things are not very compatible, to say the least. I'm sure arcade people were VERY afraid of the home market, for a variety of reasons that made good sense at the time. I think Ben's comments were right on the money, as far as cause-and- effect went. I'm sure that someone, somewhere within Bally's "we have been around for decades now" hierarchy saw the home market would be a force they could not easily compete with. I'm sure that they saw the home market as a competitor, and as a destabilizing force. In other words, the home market was a conflict of interest for some people; it stands to reason. And it is human nature to want to sabotage or kill off something that is working against what you see as your interests. I'm sure there was internal struggle, on some level. There had to be? It wouldn't make sense in human terms, if no such struggle existed. Looking back at what Atari (and others) did, when taking others to court and sueing them, I'm sure they felt justified simply from the point of view of wanting to stay alive; to survive in the market. I'm sure that from Atari's point of view, that they were just cutting the throats of people that had made it clear that they intended to cut Atari's throat, if given half a chance to do so? (There had to be a reason that names like "pirates" were applied to such groups?) I am sure that both sides felt justified in their actions, from their own seperate points of view. And that the big question became, who had more knives, and was more willingness to use them on others, first. All of which helps me to grasp some general issues regarding the hidden history of this machine and its games, but leaves some other specific questions partly or wholly unanswered, in my mind. It still bugs me... why would Bally NOT release their finished, good quality home version of Pac-Man? If I fully understood Mike White's verbal history of the game, it simply showed up unannounced, as it exists today, in some insider's personal collection. It had obviously been written. Bally was the most likely culprit to have written it. The home rights were not an issue early on, or were not much of one. The game was named "Pac-Man" right on the screen itself; it was never called "Muncher" originally. That name came later, only after it was spread around to the faithful few in the Bally system fan's inner circle. And it technically was never officially released... it was copied in a few relatively small batches, by fans of the system, and sold via ads in the few newsletters made by and for fans. One large exception to this was a single store, if I understood it correctly; the Montgomery Wards chain apparently sold it over the counter at one point, farther down the road. (As "Muncher" not as "Pac-Man"; this might have been after the Odyssey2 system lawsuits over KC Munchkin?) In my view at present, the only thing that fully makes sense is that Bally had an internal conflict of interest, and made a decision based on that conflict. They knew they had a very good thing going in the arcades. They knew or felt that it was not a wise move to kill the golden goose by trying to compete their arcade success, by releasing a high quality home version of the game. So they decided to just put the completed game in a safe spot, and not to tell anyone they had it. At some later point, someone else "discovered it" and it slowly began to leak out to others, circle by circle, over the years. It is likely that it stayed secret when Bally was running things, but after they left the home market, the conflict of interest was not perceived as affecting the new people involved, hence its unofficial release. Ward Shrake "Ward's Tech Corner" web site: http://home.att.net/~wards.tech.corner/ From ward.shrake@w... Mon Mar 18 14:19:40 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 18 Mar 2002 22:19:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 59322 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 22:19:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2002 22:19:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 22:19:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.148] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2002 22:19:39 -0000 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:19:36 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Cartridge listing Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 10857 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.66.148 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > >> > And by the way, here's a kicker for ya... > people always say that Bally did not own > the rights to Pac-Man, so Muncher was > illegal and unsellable. Not really true... > guess who made the arcade original? > >> > > Bally didn't own the Bally Professional > Arcade anymore by the time Muncher was > released. The new owner, Astrovision/ > Astrocade, was a completely different > company and they had nothing at all to > do with Midways's license of Namco's > game Pacman. This new company would > have had to license the game from > Namco, and this would have been AFTER > Pac-man 'fever' swept the U.S.; that > license probably would not have come cheaply. I realize that what you're saying is correct... I just don't think it fully answers the root question. It does help to explain some later events, such as the new owner's actions, but it does not deal with earlier things, that by their very nature would be harder to see clearly. (If a person or group is doing something sneaky, they don't announce it. They do what they can to hide their real motivations.) I'm convinced that Bally had internal struggles, and that there were factions of the company that were going in two different directions. That period of turmoil is becoming more and more interesting to me, as a student of human behavior and as an amateur gaming historian. The way I see it, at this point... One group of people working for Bally was apparently the stereotype of a very young and idealistic crowd. They obviously wanted consumers to have the best possible home versions of various arcade games. The power-per-kilobyte that they built into the system implies that they had visions of becoming the dominant force in the marketplace in the near future, and for the long term. They felt that arcade games were doomed, largely because they were quickly out of vogue, expensive to make, and were not easily altered to become a new game. They likely felt that the fact that their programs could be altered simply by inserting a new game cartridge, made home systems superior. The home market would inevitably become more important than arcades. (Which is the case today, so this thinking was very advanced for the time.) In some way, they were working towards making that into a reality. From their point of view, the backward-thinking dinosaurs in the company were going to sink the boat, if they were allowed to, so aggressive action must be taken against them to insure the company survived. Another group of people working at Bally was apparently much more cynical and worldly; the stereotype of an older business person with a history going back generations. They apparently felt that home games were a fad, doomed to die soon, and that it was in Bally's own best long-term interests to have a monopoly on a number of their games, in the arcades, as their long term survival depended on it. To protect their own interests, they'd have to fight against the first group, who from this group's point of view was crazy and dangerous. Seeing it as a fight against a predator who had attacked them first, it would not be hard for them to justify sabotaging their opponent's efforts, even though they were supposedly "on the same side". From their point of view they were just team players, protecting the team from a bunch of misguided youngsters with no grasp of the business. That much, I can more or less imagine clearly, at this point. > Is there any way to check on Bally's > sale of the BPA? Would this be part > of public records? The Wall Street > Journal was keeping tabs on it in the > beginning of the 1980's; where would > they have gotten the information? Where things start to go wonky, is in the period that Adam mentioned, when the Bally home division was being sold. I don't think we can get a more perfect understanding of the way things really worked, until we can find out who actually ordered the sale, and under what rules? Was it the second group, that had "won" the internal struggle, now banishing their internal opponents; casting them out of the kingdom? Was it partly a decision of the first group, hoping that being a seperate entity would rid them of interference by the second group? Or was it an outside force? If so, whom might that group be? I can see a number of "possibles"... one involves parties that were then involved with the bankruptcy hearings. Were they seeing the internal struggles clearly, and trying to split the opponents apart for the long-term good of the company? Or was the division simply an asset, sold to pay off creditor debts without understanding bigger issues? For that matter, was Bally a publicly traded company at that time? Did they have stock meetings, share holders, and obligations to report on their various divisions' new profits or lack thereof? Also, how was the new merger between Bally and Midway handled? Did anything really change, other than the way the company listed itself on its arcade game marqees of the time? Whom was put in charge, if there were changes in personnel? And whom was ousted, in the process? (In 1981, game marquees began saying "Bally / Midway" instead of the long-term former way of describing Midway as being "A Bally co.") Did the new management there (if any) radically change the "new" company's outlook on the way the business should be run? Which group did they side with, if any? Or did they see both groups as being correct to some extent, with coexistance a very real possibility? Why did the new "Bally / Midway" company start to license games to companies like Commodore, around late 1981 or sometime during 1982? That marks a huge change in the thinking of that arcade division; one they simply would not have had any part in, a few years earlier. One possible cause for some if not most of this change in thinking would be that Atari managed to make millions upon millions in the home market, after licensing titles like Pac-Man, without really affecting arcade sales much at all. So in a sense, the industry was a lot larger than either of the Bally groups imagined it was, earlier. Seeing two seperate markets that were obviously both capable of making many millions, must have been a heady thing at the time? This is the kind of stuff that intrigues me, nowadays. It is nice to know the name of an individual game programmer, or a bit of history about one game product, but my interest is tending towards the larger trends, affecting either the entire industry or one sub-section of it. I suppose this is a natural by-product of my being involved with investigating so many competing companies -- Bally, Commodore, Emerson, etc -- from the same marketplace and period of time? In part, some of this reminds me of a humorous and thought-provoking concept portrayed in the book "1984". A political speech is being given, naming certain enemies and facts to the public. As the speech progresses, the speech-giver is handed new notes. He reads them as he continues giving the speech. When he is done reading, he continues on with the speech as before... only now the roles of political friends and enemies has quietly reversed itself. The whole idea changed, but before and after it, the party line was "we know what we're doing". The public stumbles briefly, then picks up on the new changes, and adjusts it chants accordingly. I see that as just being a basic part of human nature. No one wants to admit they are simply stumbling around in the dark, blindly. Even if they are most people like to pretend, to preserve their dignity. In gaming circles, I can see a lot of impassioned board room speeches being made about how this or that current theory about the overall marketplace is "obviously" correct. And when the market proves itself to be other than the way it was originally described, the board just quietly boots that person out of power, blaming all past ills on them and their "lack of vision". (When they'd agreed with him, all along.) They replace him or her with someone that now says the new theory is "obviously" correct. That works great until the market itself either actually changes, or is redefined when a competitor succeeds in some area that conventional wisdom says they'll fail in. At which point the company plays musical chairs with leadership once again, either blaming ousted leaders for their problems, or claiming the business language equivalent of "we meant to do that" to save face. I imagine lots of that type of thinking, during the early 1980's. It happens today, too, but judging the past is easier; we have more info than they did, and we know how these things eventually worked out. And this is why I'm very skeptical of applying current-day logic to the events of twenty years ago... a theory is only good until the reality proves it is not good. And once one theory is rejected as false, it will be very difficult to find anyone that will admit they thought the world was flat, all along, until someone circumnavigated it. It is more likely that belief will be quietly shoved into a big dark closet, piled on top of other such discarded beliefs that were once considered "obvious" or "gospel". Reading through old business newspapers like the "Wall Street Journal" may seem boring or even off-topic, but it is one of the only ways that we today can actually hear "of course the world is flat, everyone knows it is flat" coming out of people's mouths, enmasse. Because people will deny such things later, enmasse, and attempt to culturally forget all about it, there is a very real danger to we historians that such things will actually be forgotten. At that time, we no longer understand these people, or why they did what they did. Example: during the 1970's games for the home market were considered to be a "Christmas only" sales thing. As a result, good luck finding any old ads for home Pong systems and the like by researching old mass-media publications like National Geographic, during any months but November and December. At one time, it was "obvious" this was true... until Atari took a chance, and sold them well in January. At that point, it became "obvious" they were a year-around sales item. I'm finding out that a lot of things that seem to make no sense to us as we are looking back in hindsight, do actually make a lot of sense when considered in its real historical context, given the info that the people then had to base their forward-looking decisions on. But none of it makes any sense until you see both the reportable facts AND you also have the then-current assumptions to couple them with. Ward Shrake "Ward's Tech Corner" web site: http://home.att.net/~wards.tech.corner/ From cybpunks@h... Mon Mar 18 14:46:21 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 18 Mar 2002 22:46:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 56409 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 22:46:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2002 22:46:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 22:46:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.172] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2002 22:46:18 -0000 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:46:17 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: 32K RAM Expansion Device Feature Wish List Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 331 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "cybpunks" X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.78 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=61430873 X-Yahoo-Profile: cybpunks I would want it to support bidirectional RS232 so that you could: a) load games b) allow games to load in more chunks of itself on demand (ala a Supercharger multiload) c) allow for Bally<>Bally or Bally<>PC networking in games. I'd also want it to allow you to load into banked RAM all at once so you could have large games. From cybpunks@h... Mon Mar 18 16:20:46 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: cybpunks@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 19 Mar 2002 00:20:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 21486 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 22:38:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2002 22:38:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.73) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 22:38:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.188] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2002 22:38:13 -0000 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:38:11 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: 32K SRAM memory project Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 233 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "cybpunks" X-Originating-IP: 63.206.157.78 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=61430873 X-Yahoo-Profile: cybpunks I think it would be cool if this device could hardware-emulate the arcade architectures too, so you could play the arcade Wizard of Wor and Gorf ROMs on it (with speech too if possible). Then it would have a lot of value to it. From ballyalley@h... Mon Mar 18 17:56:07 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 19 Mar 2002 01:56:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 96159 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 01:56:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2002 01:56:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.119) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 01:56:03 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:56:03 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:56:03 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: 32K SRAM memory project Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:56:03 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Mar 2002 01:56:03.0635 (UTC) FILETIME=[39D9A030:01C1CEE9] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >> Then it would have a lot of value to it. >> It's gonna have a LOT of value anyway, regardless of arcade emulation... Adam _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From jwkrych@n... Mon Mar 18 19:54:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jwkrych@n... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 19 Mar 2002 03:54:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 30600 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 03:54:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2002 03:54:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 03:54:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.189] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2002 03:54:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 03:54:40 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: A status report Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2617 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "centurion030" X-Originating-IP: 68.66.45.113 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8914535 X-Yahoo-Profile: centurion030 Hi All! A little status report from the Hardy Boys! (Here's some triva, which computer team called themselves that?-hint, it's in a book from the late 70's early 80's!!!) I believe that we have all that we need for the Hardware Team. Once Tony get's in touch with us, to help out Matt, we will settle on the final design specs. I have another technician, from my workplace, to help me out, and an old buddy of mine has agreed to do the PCB layout! So we have the following people for the Hardy Boys: Tony Matt Jim (me) John Marty (PCB engineer) (Matt, John, Marty and I are all from Ohio.) Matt will better explain how his progress has been. Now, here is what I envision, from my conversations with Matt, and from the posts here. Preliminary Specs for Astrocade II FPGA replicated Custom Chips Stand-alone Z80 or in core Z80 (this means that the entire Astrocade is on one chip) A simple MMU for paged memory-depends on which style we use. A '612 clone would allow 4K pages, and up to 1MB paged memory A 512K x 8 SRAM for "standard memory", 16K for video and the rest system. Of course when the system boots up, it will be in consumer mode. Commercial mode would be software selectable. Same 4 input ports Expansion connector on the motherboard Where the old expansion port is, we now have: a 5-pin DIN connector for Audio, Comp(color) Video, Gnd, and Luma and Chroms(which will be S-video) RF modulator section is totally eliminated And, a high-speed serial port. Easier and less involved than a USB. This will allow connection between the BPA and a PC(to load/save), or between BPA's. Finally, a PS/2 keyboard port so you can type away with a real keyboard. A Flash ROM to store alot of carts. We will use one of the hefty table supplies from Jameco, either 14 or 23 Watts. Basically, other than a view from the back, and a new sticker, you won't know the difference from the outside. Upon bootup, we could change a few things for the screen. I conceive of a slightly changed menu in which we can select "Load from PC" Okay, what Frank could do, is write a quick and dirty "Astrocade II" server on the PC, so the PC and the BPA will communicate through the serial cable. SOme tweaking of the OS will be needed. From what Mike White has told me, we can modify one of the extended BASICS to take advantage of the new features. Once we start, and the specs are finalized, I will keep everyone posted as to how things are going. We are going to need a group of guys get together for the Z80 code. Adam, can you take the lead and run that end of the team, the Micro Kids? :) Jim From komb@s... Mon Mar 18 20:15:23 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 19 Mar 2002 04:15:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 36404 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 04:15:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2002 04:15:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.73) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 04:15:23 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.251.113]) by tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020319041522.KZBR13311.tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:15:22 -0500 Message-ID: <3C96BB2F.3080503@s...> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:14:39 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020212 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Cartridge listing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian commie_fan wrote: > Hey, you mean somebody actually read the stuff I wrote about the half- > as-popular-as-the-Bally-BPA "Emerson Arcadia 2001" system? Coolness! > I try to know about all the systems of the time. Even now. The O^2 and LeasureVision, as I knew it, have been the hardest to find any real info on. Though alot has come to light in the last few years. :) >Also, how was the new merger between Bally and Midway handled? Did >anything really change, other than the way the company listed itself >on its arcade game marqees of the time? Whom was put in charge, if >there were changes in personnel? And whom was ousted, in the process? >(In 1981, game marquees began saying "Bally / Midway" instead of the >long-term former way of describing Midway as being "A Bally co.") I caught some of this early on. Thought was it a merger? It was "A Bally Co.". As I understand it: Bally sees the arcade videogame market has limited potential. So, they set up a small company, Midway, to make the beastly little things. :) Smartly, the keep a leash on it.("a Bally Co.") When the market dries up as expected and Midway goes under, Bally gets to keep any new tech for there slot mancines and Pinball machines. The bottom line of Bally is never affected. They maintained a save distance, and life goes on as before. As the market proves stable and hugely profitable, Bally moves it's name into the fore to proclaim it's self as the power behind the craze. Thus the Bally/Midway labeling. Having never been that close to a company's internal workings, as I am now. I never considered what was happening within. I unfortunatly, have no concept of when the PacMan cart was originally written. I came into this system with the Astrovision,(Free BASIC) units. only seeing breaf mentions of Muncher (Bally's version of PacMan) in the Arcadia news letters. Mail order from the states was way out of the question at the time. From matt_01000010@y... Tue Mar 19 18:20:50 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: matt_01000010@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 20 Mar 2002 02:20:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 11422 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 02:20:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2002 02:20:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 02:20:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.172] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2002 02:20:48 -0000 Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 02:20:44 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: A status report Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1386 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "matt_01000010" X-Originating-IP: 162.40.35.164 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=105823670 X-Yahoo-Profile: matt_01000010 > Matt will better explain how his progress has been. Ok. I've found code for a Z80 core from this project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zxgate/ The core is a little too big but I've looked the code over and think I can rewrite it to take advantage of the Block RAM in the Spartan2 FPGA. This should cut the size down. I'm not going to start this until this weekend when I have enough time to think about it. I've found code for a PS/2 keyboard controller from the OpenCores project (www.opencores.org). It was written in Verilog but I converted it to VHDL (I'm going to submit the code port back to the project). I also got a 16550 UART from OpenCores (again in Verilog but it's on it's way into to VHDL). I'm going to knock out a simple demo on a Virtex2 development board I have to get started. The Virtex2 part on the board is the 1M gate part so there will be plenty of room for me to play. The demo will be the Z80 core with the PS/2 keyboard and two serial ports (one for status and one for debug). This will give me a base system to test the custom chips with. It will probably take a couple weekends to integrate the cores and debug the base system. I'm still reviewing the material for the custom chips. I'll generate a block diagram of the pieces we'll need for the system so we have a road map of what needs done. That's it so far Matt From fmillera@p... Tue Mar 19 19:19:04 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 20 Mar 2002 03:19:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 38862 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 03:19:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2002 03:19:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta7.pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 03:19:02 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.240.110]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GT9005WE57KD2@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:19:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:18:54 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Great News!!! In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020319190230.00accc28@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_2936752==_.ALT" References: From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_2936752==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:48 AM 3/16/2002 +0000, you wrote: > > This is what I have been hoping for. An engineer at work is an > > expert in VHDL and is interested in replicating the custom chips > > of the BPA!! > >First post from said expert ;) > > >I've looked over the patent, nutting manual, and bpa.pdf from tony. >I think I have a decent idea of what the system hardware's doing >(there are a few holes I still need filled listed below). > >Here's what I have in mind so far: > >1) The entire logical system can be replicated in an FPGA (probably a >Xilinx Spartan2 200 (which costs ~$24)). This means Z80 soft core >processor, microcyclor (plus misc bus glue logic), address chip, data >chip and i/o chip all in one chip. I like VHDL so that would be my >perfered choice for coding. Matt; Hopefully you've had enough experience with FPGAs not to believe the BS advertising that claims millions of gates at zillions of megahertz. I would caution against putting a Z80 core in, since they're cheap and available. >2) System ROM and video RAM can be replaced by one 256Kb (32KB) >FRAM. FRAM is produced by Ramtron (www.ramtron.com). It is a non- >volatile memory with unlimited write cycles. The part I had in mind >is FM18L08 which has an 8 bit data bus and 130ns cycle times. This >part costs around $6. This will require some modification of the >microcyclor but should be transparently implementable with respect to >the Z80 code. 32KB would be enough for 16KB for the System ROM and >16KB for the Video RAM; doubling both from the current specs. Isn't standard SRAM cheaper? >3) There will need to be a few voltage translation parts (244s or >245s) for external signals going to the cassette, expansion port, >controllers, and keypad. The new system will be 3.3V but any legacy >components pluged into the BPA board will need to be driven at 5V >signal levels (I assume we're interfacing with CMOS not TTL parts). > >4) The power supply will need to be able to supply +5, +3.3, and >+2.5. We can probably use an of-the-shelf switching power supply >brick and run directly off line. Another other option would be to >get a wall transformer and some regulators. The former is better than the latter. Wall transformers usually don't put out enough soup. >5) There is some other analog circuitry that will need to be on the >board for the video, audio, and controllers. > > >Here are some holes I need filled in: > >1) What is the actual clock speed in the system? The system clock is >listed as 1.7MHz in the service manual. Is this correct and exact? >(Note that we no longer will need the pxclk since the DRAM is >removed.) Also, does anyone know what frequencies can be generated >from the music processor? The processor clock is 17.8 MHZ, and stops on every line for synchronization purposes (to the video) The way the system used to work is that Z80 accesses had to be synchronous to the video. Of course, with the appropriate FIFO or handshake, this is not a requirement. In order to generate NTSC video timing, you need to start with 14.318 MHz or (better) comply with the old CCIR601 @ 27MHZ which makes NTSC/PAL timing support straightforward. This is especially important if the plan is to generate composite or YC that is to be recorded. >I'm guessing that the game code is relying on the fact that the >processor runs at a certain speed. I've not seen a timer circuit so >my guess is delays are implemented with for loops. Therefore, a >change in the system speed will result in a proportional change in >game speed. We probably want to emulate the system as close to >orginal as possible then. AFIK, there are no software timing loops. There is a line interrupt for timing purposes which is typically programmed to go on the same line of every field. >2) Jim mentioned that there are changes to the video output >(conversion of the RF to composite or s-video). Do we want to >incorperate these changes directly into the system and bypass the >translation. I would strongly suggest outputting RGB digital, then sending it through external circuitry to generate whatever. That way, RGB analog, YC or composite is straightfoward. I know of no converter chips that will take R-Y, B-Y Y. The all take RGB digital or Cr Cb Y @ 4:1:1, 4:2:2, etc. The only reason the original output R-Y, etc., was to work directly with the modulator that ASTEC was making for us. Other4 than that R-Y, etc is a major hassle. Working in RGB space may require internal lookup tables to generate the appropriate color, however. But I think the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. >3) The i/o chip has an adc for the controller pot reading. Does >someone have a circuit for the pot? I think we can probably use a TI >adc but I need to know hows it actually is hooked up. Another option >would be to modify the controllers to output digital pwm signal. I >don't know if this is feasible or not. I believe the original did something like firing a oneshot from time to time, and the pot controlled the period. When the oneshot fires, a counter starts which stops when the oneshot times out. The digital value is then read from the counter. (But I could be wrong, never paid much attention to how that part of the IO chip works. >4) What's the plan for getting actual hardware? Does anyone have PCB >design tools? Equipment for SMT work? Know of a board house to >build and/or assemble boards? Here's a suggestion: Don't use any parts that can't be bought from Digikey, and for a reasonable price. Your mention of VirtexII with million gates is nifty, but we just bought XCV2-600s or whatevers for only $4500.00 each. You won't find too many group members willing to go for those! >Some random thoughts for additional features: > >1) Memory expansion. Memory is cheap (as compared to 1978) so why >bother switching cassettes when one flash chip could store every game >ever made 10 times over. A feature could be added to switch a sector >of memory in and out depending on which image you'd like to run. >This memory could be physically on the board or a removeable card, >such as compact flash or a PSX/PS2 memory card. The latter would be >my choice because it's designed for a gaming enviroment. (Legal >issues of course may exist.) A menu system could be added to the >System ROM to list the avaliable games on the memory card. Sounds good >2) Controller alternitives. We could modify the controller inputs to >something a little more ergonomic or cool. The former being add a >port for a PSX/PS2 controller, the latter being Jim's Devastator. A >controller frontend can be added to translate either controllers >inputs to the ones expected by the BPA. > >3) Networking or USB. Ick! Too much work for the first go!! Put >down the crack pipe and smell the coffee!!! If you haven't guessed, >I don't think we want to tackle either of these deceptively easy >sounding features right now. They're not as easy as they sound (I >know from personal experience and have the scars to prove it). This >would be a nice add-on once we're all tired of playing on our nice >shiny new BPA's and are looking for another challege. > > >This should be a fun project. Let's get started ;) > >Matt > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_2936752==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 03:48 AM 3/16/2002 +0000, you wrote:
> This is what I have been hoping for. An engineer at work is an
> expert in VHDL and is interested in replicating the custom chips
> of the BPA!!

First post from said expert ;)


I've looked over the patent, nutting manual, and bpa.pdf from tony. 
I think I have a decent idea of what the system hardware's doing
(there are a few holes I still need filled listed below).

Here's what I have in mind so far:

1) The entire logical system can be replicated in an FPGA (probably a
Xilinx Spartan2 200 (which costs ~$24)).  This means Z80 soft core
processor, microcyclor (plus misc bus glue logic), address chip, data
chip and i/o chip all in one chip.  I like VHDL so that would be my
perfered choice for coding.

Matt;

Hopefully you've had enough experience with FPGAs not to believe the BS advertising that claims millions of gates at zillions of megahertz.  I would caution against putting a Z80 core in, since they're cheap and available.

2) System ROM and video RAM can be replaced by one 256Kb (32KB)
FRAM.  FRAM is produced by Ramtron (www.ramtron.co= m). It is a non-
volatile memory with unlimited write cycles.  The part I had in mind
is FM18L08 which has an 8 bit data bus and 130ns cycle times.  This
part costs around $6.  This will require some modification of the
microcyclor but should be transparently implementable with respect to
the Z80 code.  32KB would be enough for 16KB for the System ROM and
16KB for the Video RAM; doubling both from the current specs.

Isn't standard SRAM cheaper?

3) There will need to be a few voltage translation parts (244s or
245s) for external signals going to the cassette, expansion port,
controllers, and keypad.  The new system will be 3.3V but any legacy
components pluged into the BPA board will need to be driven at 5V
signal levels (I assume we're interfacing with CMOS not TTL parts).

4) The power supply will need to be able to supply +5, +3.3, and
+2.5.  We can probably use an of-the-shelf switching power supply
brick and run directly off line.  Another other option would be to
get a wall transformer and some regulators.

The former is better than the latter.  Wall transformers usually don't put out enough soup.

5) There is some other analog circuitry that will need to be on the
board for the video, audio, and controllers.


Here are some holes I need filled in:

1) What is the actual clock speed in the system?  The system clock is
listed as 1.7MHz in the service manual.  Is this correct and exact? 
(Note that we no longer will need the pxclk since the DRAM is
removed.)  Also, does anyone know what frequencies can be generated
from the music processor?

The processor clock is 17.8 MHZ, and stops on every line for synchronization purposes (to the video)  The way the system used to work is that Z80 accesses had to be synchronous to the video.  Of course, with the appropriate FIFO or handshake, this is not a requirement.  In order to generate NTSC video timing, you need to start with 14.318 MHz or (better) comply with the old CCIR601 @ 27MHZ which makes NTSC/PAL timing support straightforward.  This is especially important if the plan is to generate composite or YC that is to be recorded.


I'm guessing that the game code is relying on the fact that the
processor runs at a certain speed.  I've not seen a timer circuit so
my guess is delays are implemented with for loops.  Therefore, a
change in the system speed will result in a proportional change in
game speed.  We probably want to emulate the system as close to
orginal as possible then.

AFIK, there are no software timing loops. There is a line interrupt for timing purposes which is typically programmed to go on the same line of every field.

2) Jim mentioned that there are changes to the video output
(conversion of the RF to composite or s-video).  Do we want to=20
incorperate these changes directly into the system and bypass the
translation.

I would strongly suggest outputting RGB digital, then sending it through external circuitry to generate whatever.  That way, RGB analog, YC or composite is straightfoward.  I know of no converter chips that will take R-Y, B-Y Y.  The all take RGB digital or Cr Cb Y @ 4:1:1, 4:2:2, etc.  The only reason the original output R-Y, etc., was to work directly with the modulator that ASTEC was making for us.  Other4 than that R-Y, etc is a major hassle.  Working in RGB space may require internal lookup tables to generate the appropriate color, however.  But I think the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages.


3) The i/o chip has an adc for the controller pot reading.  Does
someone have a circuit for the pot?  I think we can probably use a TI
adc but I need to know hows it actually is hooked up.  Another option
would be to modify the controllers to output digital pwm signal.  I
don't know if this is feasible or not.


I believe the original did something like firing a oneshot from time to time, and the pot controlled the period.  When the oneshot fires, a counter starts which stops when the oneshot times out.  The digital value is then read from the counter.  (But I could be wrong, never paid much attention to how that part of the IO chip works.


4) What's the plan for getting actual hardware?  Does anyone have PCB
design tools?  Equipment for SMT work?  Know of a board house to
build and/or assemble boards?

Here's a suggestion:  Don't use any parts that can't be bought from Digikey, and for a reasonable price.  Your mention of VirtexII with million gates is nifty, but we just bought XCV2-600s or whatevers for only $4500.00 each.  You won't find too many group members willing to go for those!


Some random thoughts for additional features:

1) Memory expansion.  Memory is cheap (as compared to 1978) so why
bother switching cassettes when one flash chip could store every game
ever made 10 times over.  A feature could be added to switch a sector
of memory in and out depending on which image you'd like to run. 
This memory could be physically on the board or a removeable card,
such as compact flash or a PSX/PS2 memory card.  The latter would be
my choice because it's designed for a gaming enviroment.  (Legal
issues of course may exist.)  A menu system could be added to the
System ROM to list the avaliable games on the memory card.


Sounds good


2) Controller alternitives.  We could modify the controller inputs to
something a little more ergonomic or cool.  The former being add a
port for a PSX/PS2 controller, the latter being Jim's Devastator.  A
controller frontend can be added to translate either controllers
inputs to the ones expected by the BPA.

3) Networking or USB.  Ick!  Too much work for the first go!!  Put
down the crack pipe and smell the coffee!!!  If you haven't guessed,
I don't think we want to tackle either of these deceptively easy
sounding features right now.  They're not as easy as they sound (I
know from personal experience and have the scars to prove it).  This
would be a nice add-on once we're all tired of playing on our nice
shiny new BPA's and are looking for another challege.


This should be a fun project.  Let's get started  ;)

Matt






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--=====================_2936752==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Tue Mar 19 19:22:16 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 20 Mar 2002 03:22:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 16315 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 03:22:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2002 03:22:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta7.pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 03:22:16 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.240.110]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GT90050Y5D1JG@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:22:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:22:11 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] A status report In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020319192011.00ad0a58@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_3132954==_.ALT" From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_3132954==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:54 AM 3/19/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Hi All! > >A little status report from the Hardy Boys! (Here's some triva, which >computer team called themselves that?-hint, it's in a book from the >late 70's early 80's!!!) > >I believe that we have all that we need for the Hardware Team. Once >Tony get's in touch with us, to help out Matt, we will settle on the >final design specs. I have another technician, from my workplace, to >help me out, and an old buddy of mine has agreed to do the PCB >layout! So we have the following people for the Hardy Boys: >Tony >Matt >Jim (me) >John >Marty (PCB engineer) >(Matt, John, Marty and I are all from Ohio.) > >Matt will better explain how his progress has been. > >Now, here is what I envision, from my conversations with Matt, and >from the posts here. > >Preliminary Specs for Astrocade II >FPGA replicated Custom Chips >Stand-alone Z80 or in core Z80 >(this means that the entire Astrocade is on one chip) >A simple MMU for paged memory-depends on which style we use. A '612 >clone would allow 4K pages, and up to 1MB paged memory >A 512K x 8 SRAM for "standard memory", 16K for video and the rest >system. Of course when the system boots up, it will be in consumer >mode. Commercial mode would be software selectable. >Same 4 input ports >Expansion connector on the motherboard >Where the old expansion port is, we now have: a 5-pin DIN connector >for Audio, Comp(color) Video, Gnd, and Luma and Chroms(which will be >S-video) RF modulator section is totally eliminated >And, a high-speed serial port. Easier and less involved than a USB. Great idea, but someone needs to write a handler running on both ends to support this. >This will allow connection between the BPA and a PC(to load/save), or >between BPA's. >Finally, a PS/2 keyboard port so you can type away with a real >keyboard. >A Flash ROM to store alot of carts. >We will use one of the hefty table supplies from Jameco, either 14 or >23 Watts. Buy a digikey special. Same for all the parts. With the FPGA be programmable via PROM (expensive) or serial IF from a PC (cheap)? >Basically, other than a view from the back, and a new sticker, you >won't know the difference from the outside. Upon bootup, we could >change a few things for the screen. > >I conceive of a slightly changed menu in which we can select "Load >from PC" > >Okay, what Frank could do, is write a quick and dirty "Astrocade II" >server on the PC, so the PC and the BPA will communicate through the >serial cable. > >SOme tweaking of the OS will be needed. From what Mike White has told >me, we can modify one of the extended BASICS to take advantage of the >new features. > >Once we start, and the specs are finalized, I will keep everyone >posted as to how things are going. We are going to need a group of >guys get together for the Z80 code. Adam, can you take the lead and >run that end of the team, the Micro Kids? >:) > >Jim > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_3132954==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 03:54 AM 3/19/2002 +0000, you wrote:
Hi All!

A little status report from the Hardy Boys! (Here's some triva, which
computer team called themselves that?-hint, it's in a book from the
late 70's early 80's!!!)

I believe that we have all that we need for the Hardware Team. Once
Tony get's in touch with us, to help out Matt, we will settle on the
final design specs. I have another technician, from my workplace, to
help me out, and an old buddy of mine has agreed to do the PCB
layout! So we have the following people for the Hardy Boys:
Tony
Matt
Jim (me)
John
Marty (PCB engineer)
(Matt, John, Marty and I are all from Ohio.)

Matt will better explain how his progress has been.

Now, here is what I envision, from my conversations with Matt, and
from the posts here.

Preliminary Specs for Astrocade II
FPGA replicated Custom Chips
Stand-alone Z80 or in core Z80
(this means that the entire Astrocade is on one chip)
A simple MMU for paged memory-depends on which style we use. A '612
clone would allow 4K pages, and up to 1MB paged memory
A 512K x 8 SRAM for "standard memory", 16K for video and the rest
system. Of course when the system boots up, it will be in consumer
mode. Commercial mode would be software selectable.
Same 4 input ports
Expansion connector on the motherboard
Where the old expansion port is, we now have: a 5-pin DIN connector
for Audio, Comp(color) Video, Gnd, and Luma and Chroms(which will be
S-video) RF modulator section is totally eliminated
And, a high-speed serial port. Easier and less involved than a USB.


Great idea, but someone needs to write a handler running on both ends to support this.

This will allow connection between the BPA and a PC(to load/save), or
between BPA's.
Finally, a PS/2 keyboard port so you can type away with a real
keyboard.
A Flash ROM to store alot of carts.
We will use one of the hefty table supplies from Jameco, either 14 or
23 Watts.

Buy a digikey special.  Same for all the parts.  With the FPGA be programmable via PROM (expensive) or serial IF from a PC (cheap)?

Basically, other than a view from the back, and a new sticker, you
won't know the difference from the outside. Upon bootup, we could
change a few things for the screen.

I conceive of a slightly changed menu in which we can select "Load
from PC"

Okay, what Frank could do, is write a quick and dirty "Astrocade II"
server on the PC, so the PC and the BPA will communicate through the
serial cable.

SOme tweaking of the OS will be needed. From what Mike White has told
me, we can modify one of the extended BASICS to take advantage of the
new features.

Once we start, and the specs are finalized, I will keep everyone
posted as to how things are going. We are going to need a group of
guys get together for the Z80 code. Adam, can you take the lead and
run that end of the team, the Micro Kids?
:)

Jim





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--=====================_3132954==_.ALT-- From fmillera@p... Tue Mar 19 19:26:50 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 20 Mar 2002 03:26:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 64599 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 03:26:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2002 03:26:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta7.pltn13.pbi.net) (64.164.98.8) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 03:26:49 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.240.110]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GT9005Z95KONP@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:26:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:26:47 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Great News!!! In-reply-to: <4.2.2.20020319190230.00accc28@p...> X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020319192408.00aaf9d8@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii References: From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus At 07:18 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, you wrote: >At 03:48 AM 3/16/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Snip! >Matt; > >Hopefully you've had enough experience with FPGAs not to believe the BS >advertising that claims millions of gates at zillions of megahertz. I >would caution against putting a Z80 core in, since they're cheap and available. Sorry, this keyboard can't spell worth CR*P. I meant an external (i.e., non-integrated core) Z80 is cheap. Why not use it> >Snip again! Below, I mean 1.78, not 17.8! >The processor clock is 17.8 MHZ, and stops on every line for >synchronization purposes (to the video) The way the system used to work >is that Z80 accesses had to be synchronous to the video. Of course, with >the appropriate FIFO or handshake, this is not a requirement. In order to >generate NTSC video timing, you need to start with 14.318 MHz or (better) >comply with the old CCIR601 @ 27MHZ which makes NTSC/PAL timing support >straightforward. This is especially important if the plan is to generate >composite or YC that is to be recorded. > Sorry for the bad typing. We're getting close to tape-out at work and things are getting stressful, since a purchased IP core is buggy! Cheers, Tony Miller From ballyalley@h... Wed Mar 20 10:23:30 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 20 Mar 2002 18:23:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 90819 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 18:23:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2002 18:23:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.111) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 18:23:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:23:28 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:23:28 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: New uploads to Bally Alley website Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:23:28 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2002 18:23:28.0755 (UTC) FILETIME=[551B4430:01C1D03C] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo March 22, 2002 I've uploaded more files (newsletters and coverscans and one more overlay) to the Bally Alley website. Check out the what's new page: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/Whats_New.html Here's a summary: March 16, 2002 Added scans of six manual covers -- Thanks Steven! March 15, 2002 Added keypad overlay for Music Maker. Added issues 1-3 to volume 4 of the Arcadian. Added six more Astrobugs newsletters. Added three volumes (a complete set?) of Niagara B.U.G. Bulletins. Will be using unordered lists for the 'What's New' page-- it looks neater. That's about 150 pages of reading material to keep you busy. Remember that you must save the pdf files to disk in order to view them (they won't open from the site). Also, on the files that are located on the File planet servers, you do NOT have to pay to download the files, just click download (yes, it sounds obvious, but it isn't). I've actually already uploaded more files, but because of the lag time between my uploads and the time it takes for the files to get to the mirror sites where they can be downloaded, there is a couple of day delay (see, there IS a cost to free hosting sites). I'll send out another update soon. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From ward.shrake@w... Wed Mar 20 10:33:32 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ward.shrake@w... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 20 Mar 2002 18:33:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 95386 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 18:33:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2002 18:33:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.75) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 18:33:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.170] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2002 18:33:31 -0000 Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:33:30 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Cartridge listing Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3C96BB2F.3080503@s...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 6604 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "commie_fan" X-Originating-IP: 12.80.67.69 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5331671 X-Yahoo-Profile: commie_fan --- In ballyalley@y..., "Lance F. Squire" wrote: > commie_fan wrote: > >> Hey, you mean somebody actually read >> the stuff I wrote about the half- >> as-popular-as-the-Bally-BPA "Emerson >> Arcadia 2001" system? Coolness! > > I try to know about all the systems of > the time. Even now. The O^2 and > LeasureVision, as I knew it, have been > the hardest to find any real info > on. Though alot has come to light in > the last few years. :) First off, let me say that my earlier comments were 90% speculation, so don't read too much of it as gospel. It was more like the start of a potential brainstorming session, than anything else. I may have been wrong about Pac-Man being originally written by Bally, then hidden until Astrovision came along. Mike White thinks that is a stretch, according to a phone conversation I had recently. I'm not sure I agree 100%, but I do respect Mike's knowledge, a lot. He is basing that on his (excellent) memory of what was mentioned when, in newsletters like the Arcadian. Most of the time, those sources included dates when things were then being reported, which is helpful if you know the dates of other things, from other sources. One of my main points is that it is easier to figure out cause-and- effect relationships if you know real dates of events, including if possible the month and day, instead of just a year. Too much can take place in a year, to sort out which things happened before others. You could have five or more seperate cause-and-effect "generations" all clumped together in that period, each affected the next. That makes it difficult if not impossible to see everything clearly and correctly, years later, in a step-by-step manner. In the Sherlock Holmes stories, the detective always wanted to be able to examine the crime scene himself, to glean useful information from small clues. He often lamented that the crime scene had been trampled by others since the crime itself had taken place, erasing some of the possible clues. Hence wanting to see dated quotes, etc. For example: if we knew exactly when the game Pac-Man came into the arcade market -- month and year -- and we knew exactly when Muncher first began to circulate in the home market, we'd have a range of dates to do research on. Anything happening before the creation of the arcade game and its unexpectedly huge acceptance by the public, obviously had very little to do with Muncher's creation. We can take it for granted that Muncher was created only after the arcade game was either (a) created, or (b) became hugely popular. The former would presume a certain amount of faith in the game prior to any real evidence of acceptance in the marketplace, making it less likely than the latter. In any case, anything happening after Muncher was written and released, is also a seperate issue, not affecting Muncher's birth. I think of it like a giant pool table, with many balls on the playing surface. Someone hits one ball. It strikes another, which strikes others, which strike others, and so on, in a chain reaction. Trying to work out exactly what took place, long after the fact, is almost impossible unless you knew the exact layout of the table before the first ball was hit. If you know that, and you can find reports at least part of the chain of events, you can fill some gaps in with a reasonable degree of certainty. It's a fun mental challenge to do so. As to Lance's idea that Midway was created by Bally as a seperate division just to make video games... sorry, that is false. Midway was in fact a seperate company, dating back many decades before the era of video-based games had begun. Bally, Midway, Gottlieb and many others had manufactured pinball games and electro-mechanical games long before video-based games were technically possible. Before TV was invented, actually. The name "Midway" is actually a reference to a carnival midway, where many of the electro-mechanical games would have been expected to be seen and played. Many of the other names from that era were names of the families that ran the companies. As some of those companies went out of business over the decades, other companies bought the remains of the company, integrating it into their own operation. I don't know the history of all this as well as others do; check into the history of pinball machines for more info. Whole books have been written on the history of that single subject. (Which makes sense, since it is older than video-based gaming is.) I did choose my words poorly, when I referred to a "merger" between Bally and Midway, sometime during 1981. A better word choice would have been a "reorganization". The companies were obviously already related in some way, given the evidence I mentioned before, such as arcade game marquees. That relationship changed during 1981 to the extent that those marquees began naming the company differently. We know that much for a fact; that some sort of reorganization was taking place within Bally and Midway, during 1981. Mike White said reports came into various newsletters around that time -- September of 1981, I believe -- that said that Bally had sold the rights to Pac- Man to Atari, and had sold various other games to Commodore at that time. So that much is also confirmed. (Although the details are all still a bit fuzzy.) My curious nature simply asks "Why" this all took place? Was it the bankruptcy and/or sale of the home division of Bally's game marketing efforts? Was it something to do with whatever the details were with the arcade division's apparent reorganization? Were those two things seperate events, or were they cause-and-effect? Not having all the facts is dangerous. For instance, the earliest semi-educated guesses we over in Commodore VIC-20 land had as to why Commodore suddenly began marketing "Bally / Midway" games and using that name in every other breath of their advertising campaigns during 1982 or so, was we figured they ran afoul of copyright lawsuits. As it turns out, that is looking like a partial cause, but only partial. A combination of the idea that they'd be sued if they didn't license a product, and the "sudden" availability of such licenses due to the exit of Bally's home division, is apparently a more accurate view. I am sure we'll fill in more details later, but this is a step forward in our understanding of the bigger picture. And it's very welcome, as far as I'm concerned. Ward Shrake "Ward's Tech Corner" web site: http://home.att.net/~wards.tech.corner/ From ballyalley@h... Wed Mar 20 14:46:09 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 20 Mar 2002 22:46:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 19394 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 22:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2002 22:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.202) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 22:40:48 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:40:48 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:40:48 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: More New uploads to Bally Alley website Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:40:48 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2002 22:40:48.0682 (UTC) FILETIME=[480528A0:01C1D060] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo March 22, 2002 I've uploaded machine language source code to the Bally Alley website. Check out the "What's New" page: http://www.classicgaming.com/ballyalley/Whats_New.html Here's a summary: Added Machine language section with source for: Table of Contents Assembly header (equates and macros) Onboard System ROM Scribbling Calculator Checkmate Gunfight That's over 200 pages of source material to keep you busy. For all files that are located on the File planet servers, you do NOT have to pay to download the files, just click download (yes, it sounds obvious, but it isn't). Adam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From komb@s... Wed Mar 20 17:22:49 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 21 Mar 2002 01:22:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 36098 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2002 01:22:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2002 01:22:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.74) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2002 01:22:45 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.251.113]) by tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020321012244.BBAU26555.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:22:44 -0500 Message-ID: <3C9935B7.6070806@s...> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:21:59 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020212 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Bally html FAQ updates Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Unfortunatly, due to other commitments, I haven't been as busy in Bally Land as Adam has or I would like. However, I have had some time to throw together and upload some stuff i've been assembeling over the past year. Unfortunatly, the links section is pitifully small. All comments etc welcome http://www.alteeve.com/~lance/Ballyfaq.html Lance From matt_01000010@y... Wed Mar 20 18:32:28 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: matt_01000010@y... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 21 Mar 2002 02:32:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 16529 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2002 02:32:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2002 02:32:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.68) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2002 02:32:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.130] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2002 02:32:25 -0000 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 02:32:23 -0000 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Great News!!! Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20020319190230.00accc28@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5183 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "matt_01000010" X-Originating-IP: 162.40.46.174 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=105823670 X-Yahoo-Profile: matt_01000010 Hi Tony, > Hopefully you've had enough experience with FPGAs not to believe > the BS advertising that claims millions of gates at zillions of > megahertz. I would caution against putting a Z80 core in, since > they're cheap and available. I wish I could get an FPGA with millions of gates at zillions of megahertz ;) In my current design I have a Spartan2 50k gate part running at 100Mhz and 66Mhz. A Z80 running at 1.78MHz should not be a problem. The problem might be the size of the core so an external Z80 might be the proper solution. > Isn't standard SRAM cheaper? It could be but a ROM and an SRAM probably isn't. FRAM could be a cheaper solution, but it might not be the best solution. If we want paged memory like some people are talking about or a large storage medium then a different memory solution would be in order. Perhaps a 1 or 2MB flash part for ROM and a 128 or 256KB SRAM would better met the requirements. An Intel TE28F160B3TA90 flash (1Mx16) costs around $10 and a Toshiba 128KB SRAM (TC551001CFT) costs around $8. It really comes down to what do we want. The solution space is quite large, we need to nail down the actual requirements. > The former is better than the latter. Wall transformers usually > don't put out enough soup. I agree. It would be nice to get a +5V/+3.3V switcher with a standard line input. The 2.5V core needs less than 500mA so a regulator off +3.3V would be fine. > The processor clock is 17.8 MHZ, and stops on every line for > synchronization purposes (to the video) The way the system used > to work is that Z80 accesses had to be synchronous to the video. > Of course, with the appropriate FIFO or handshake, this is not a > requirement. In order to generate NTSC video timing, you need to > start with 14.318 MHz or (better) comply with the old CCIR601 @ > 27MHZ which makes NTSC/PAL timing support straightforward. This > is especially important if the plan is to generate composite or > YC that is to be recorded. I guess that's the reason they have the 14.31818 crystal. We're going to have to go over this more in the future. > AFIK, there are no software timing loops. There is a line interrupt > for timing purposes which is typically programmed to go on the same > line of every field. I don't know what AFIK means. No software timing loops is a good thing. We should be less susceptible to processor timing changes then. > I would strongly suggest outputting RGB digital, then sending it > through external circuitry to generate whatever. That way, RGB > analog, YC or composite is straightfoward. I know of no converter > chips that will take R-Y, B-Y Y. The all take RGB digital or Cr Cb > Y @ 4:1:1, 4:2:2, etc. The only reason the original output R-Y, > etc., was to work directly with the modulator that ASTEC was making > for us. Other4 than that R-Y, etc is a major hassle. Working in > RGB space may require internal lookup tables to generate the > appropriate color, however. But I think the advantages far > outweigh the disadvantages. Do you know of a good resource for RBG signal generation? I've never worked with video so I'll need a crash course and/or some help. > I believe the original did something like firing a oneshot from > time to time, and the pot controlled the period. When the oneshot > fires, a counter starts which stops when the oneshot times out. > The digital value is then read from the counter. (But I could be > wrong, never paid much attention to how that part of the IO chip > works. The one document said it had a 9-bit ADC. I'm not sure how they implemented the ADC. I guess a oneshot and a counter would be a sort of ADC. I'm not sure how precise it'd be but it'd probably get the job done. Do we want to go that route or do we want a real ADC? We could use a 12-bit 4 channel ADC from TI, such as ADS7841 or ADS7842. One part would handle all four controllers. These are like $6 parts. > Here's a suggestion: Don't use any parts that can't be bought from > Digikey, and for a reasonable price. Your mention of VirtexII with > million gates is nifty, but we just bought XCV2-600s or whatevers > for only $4500.00 each. You won't find too many group members > willing to go for those! $4500!! You got screwed ;) The XVC600 should be around $1200 for the -6 speed grade. You need to look at the Virtex2. They greatly reduced the prices. The XC2V1000 is only around $400. I was thinking a Spartan2. The biggest one is $30 from Digikey but we might not need that big of one. We'll see once the custom chips are implemented how big a part is required. I agree that avalibilty from Digikey is a good way to insure the parts are easy to get. We should consider this when choosing parts. I believe all the parts I mentioned are avaliable from Digikey. > Sorry for the bad typing. We're getting close to tape-out at work > and things are getting stressful, since a purchased IP core is > buggy! I understand. The stupid analog guys at work are spraying my FPGA with cold spray, freezing the part below the thermal spec and complaining my design is junk when it locks up. What fun ;) Matt From komb@s... Wed Mar 20 19:39:55 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 21 Mar 2002 03:39:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 55130 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2002 03:39:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2002 03:39:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.185) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2002 03:39:51 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.251.113]) by tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020321033949.IXEZ22202.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:39:49 -0500 Message-ID: <3C9955DA.3090602@s...> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:39:06 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020212 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Cartridge listing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian commie_fan wrote: > > As to Lance's idea that Midway was created by Bally as a seperate > division just to make video games... sorry, that is false. Midway was > in fact a seperate company, dating back many decades before the era > of video-based games had begun. Ok, Got me there! I usually wright about things from the perspective of how it looked to me as I encountered them. As I only ever met Midway Manufatruing (MM) creations with the 'a Bally Co' or later 'Bally/Midway' logos, I presumed it had always been so. Never had a reason to explore it. > that said that Bally had sold the rights to Pac-Man to Atari. I am almost positive that Atari aquired the home rights from Namco. Though I haven't researched it. I'm reasonably sure of this because Bally/Midways name is/was noware to be seen! Leading to the common (and anoying) misconception that Atari owned Pac-Man. Infact I remember Bally made every suceeding Pac-Man arcade game (most after the Atari 2600 cart) until Pac-Mania (1988) Doing some instant research now. Can't find my Atari Pac-Man cart. But, both the MS. Pac-man & Pac-Man Jr. (both of which came out much later) claim: Ms. Pac-Man Box: "MS. PAC-MAN is a trademark of Namco, Ltd." Cart: "MS. PAC-MAN and characers are Trademarks of Bally Midway Mfg. Co. sublicenced to Atari Corp. by Namco-America, Inc." Jr. Pac-Man Box & Cart: "MS. PAC-MAN and characers are Trademarks of Bally Midway Mfg. Co. sublicenced to Atari Corp. by Namco-America, Inc." Notice Bally is NOT mentioned on the outside packaging of Ms Pac-Man. In any case the licenceing is done 'by Namco-America, Inc.' Not Bally Midway. Man! That little bit of research (Checking the arcade machines for verification, trying to pinpoint Atari Pac-Man cart (82-83?) took a LOT of time. I did find a Pac-Man history site, but I have issues with it, as it dosen't match my memory of events and the (c) dates of my carts. I've got to get back to other things now :( Lance From ballyalley@h... Thu Mar 21 12:15:41 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 21 Mar 2002 20:15:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 63626 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2002 20:15:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2002 20:15:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.17) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2002 20:15:38 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:15:37 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:15:37 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Astrocade assembly (color mapping) help? Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:15:37 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Mar 2002 20:15:37.0913 (UTC) FILETIME=[2A690A90:01C1D115] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo March 21, 2002 I'm looking for some help with the way that the Astrocade color mapping is setup. Is there anyone that has experience with this area (Lance?). I understand how color mapping works, but when I try it outside of BASIC the colors come out in "reverse order." I wrote a very short assembly program that clears the screen and displays four pixels so that I can see what is in color registers. I made sure to write the program short enough so that I could test it on an actual Astrocade just to make sure this isn't some emulation quirk. I typed the assembled hex code into the Blue Ram Utility (using my 16K Blue Ram) and then ran the short program as a cartridge (from area $2000). That worked, but the colors still are not what I expect (they are the same as on the emulator). It was quite satisfying to see code running on the Astrocade and not the emulator though, even if it wasn't doing what I expect. Is there anyone interested in programming the Z80 in assembly? There still hasn't been too many peeps from this group about it. Is anyone working on any assembly projects beside Lance and I? I thought this posting might be outside the scope of most discussion group readers, otherwise I would have posted some code. Anyone interested in working this out with me? We can either use this discussion group to exchange code, or else email one another. Using the group could be helpful, but it might alienate people who just don't care for tech "stuff." Adam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From palazzol@c... Thu Mar 21 18:32:55 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@c... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 22 Mar 2002 02:32:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 22697 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 02:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2002 02:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.comcast.net) (24.153.64.2) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 02:32:54 -0000 Received: from pagels (pcp01182125pcs.strl1201.mi.comcast.net [68.60.202.189]) by mtaout45-02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GTC00KSPSETJS@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:32:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:32:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade assembly (color mapping) help? In-reply-to: To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <3C9A516A.28890.F812D9A@l...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal From: Frank Palazzolo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=99293129 X-Yahoo-Profile: knarfian Adam, I got a lot of experience with the Astrocade palette when I worked out the colors for MESS. A little while ago, Glenn Saunders put together some code which generates and HTML table with all the Atari 2600 colors in it. I liked the idea, and planned on making a table with the Astrocade colors in it as well. Well, I finally slapped together a Python script which generated the web page, using the same equation as MESS. Here it is: http://www.dsplib.com/astrocade/astrocade_palette.html There are pop-up messages in IE with the actual color codes in it. I must admit that I stole the HTML code from Glenn, but I'm generating it completely differently :) If you still have some trouble sorting out the color stuff, post your little Z80 program and I'll have a look. I still like Z80 assembly :) Thanks, Frank From fmillera@p... Thu Mar 21 18:35:32 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: fmillera@p... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 22 Mar 2002 02:35:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 11891 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 02:35:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2002 02:35:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta5.snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 02:35:31 -0000 Received: from TONY ([63.199.241.169]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GTC00MZISJ2AW@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:35:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:35:24 -0800 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Re: Great News!!! In-reply-to: X-Sender: fmillera@p... To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4.2.2.20020321183150.00aa9c90@p...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_524223==_.ALT" References: <4.2.2.20020319190230.00accc28@p...> From: Tony Miller X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68753080 X-Yahoo-Profile: tonymillerus --=====================_524223==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:32 AM 3/21/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Tony, > > > Hopefully you've had enough experience with FPGAs not to believe > > the BS advertising that claims millions of gates at zillions of > > megahertz. I would caution against putting a Z80 core in, since > > they're cheap and available. > >I wish I could get an FPGA with millions of gates at zillions of >megahertz ;) In my current design I have a Spartan2 50k gate part >running at 100Mhz and 66Mhz. A Z80 running at 1.78MHz should not be >a problem. The problem might be the size of the core so an external >Z80 might be the proper solution. > > > Isn't standard SRAM cheaper? > >It could be but a ROM and an SRAM probably isn't. FRAM could be a >cheaper solution, but it might not be the best solution. > >If we want paged memory like some people are talking about or a large >storage medium then a different memory solution would be in order. >Perhaps a 1 or 2MB flash part for ROM and a 128 or 256KB SRAM would >better met the requirements. An Intel TE28F160B3TA90 flash (1Mx16) >costs around $10 and a Toshiba 128KB SRAM (TC551001CFT) costs around >$8. > >It really comes down to what do we want. The solution space is quite >large, we need to nail down the actual requirements. > > > The former is better than the latter. Wall transformers usually > > don't put out enough soup. > >I agree. It would be nice to get a +5V/+3.3V switcher with a >standard line input. The 2.5V core needs less than 500mA so a >regulator off +3.3V would be fine. > > > The processor clock is 17.8 MHZ, and stops on every line for > > synchronization purposes (to the video) The way the system used > > to work is that Z80 accesses had to be synchronous to the video. > > Of course, with the appropriate FIFO or handshake, this is not a > > requirement. In order to generate NTSC video timing, you need to > > start with 14.318 MHz or (better) comply with the old CCIR601 @ > > 27MHZ which makes NTSC/PAL timing support straightforward. This > > is especially important if the plan is to generate composite or > > YC that is to be recorded. > >I guess that's the reason they have the 14.31818 crystal. We're >going to have to go over this more in the future. > > > AFIK, there are no software timing loops. There is a line interrupt > > for timing purposes which is typically programmed to go on the same > > line of every field. > >I don't know what AFIK means. No software timing loops is a good >thing. We should be less susceptible to processor timing changes >then. AFIK = As Far As I Know > > I would strongly suggest outputting RGB digital, then sending it > > through external circuitry to generate whatever. That way, RGB > > analog, YC or composite is straightfoward. I know of no converter > > chips that will take R-Y, B-Y Y. The all take RGB digital or Cr Cb > > Y @ 4:1:1, 4:2:2, etc. The only reason the original output R-Y, > > etc., was to work directly with the modulator that ASTEC was making > > for us. Other4 than that R-Y, etc is a major hassle. Working in > > RGB space may require internal lookup tables to generate the > > appropriate color, however. But I think the advantages far > > outweigh the disadvantages. > >Do you know of a good resource for RBG signal generation? I've never >worked with video so I'll need a crash course and/or some help. Try Video demistified by Keith Jack, or the art of digital video by (someone whose name I can't remember) > > I believe the original did something like firing a oneshot from > > time to time, and the pot controlled the period. When the oneshot > > fires, a counter starts which stops when the oneshot times out. > > The digital value is then read from the counter. (But I could be > > wrong, never paid much attention to how that part of the IO chip > > works. > >The one document said it had a 9-bit ADC. I'm not sure how they >implemented the ADC. I guess a oneshot and a counter would be a sort >of ADC. I'm not sure how precise it'd be but it'd probably get the >job done. Do we want to go that route or do we want a real ADC? We >could use a 12-bit 4 channel ADC from TI, such as ADS7841 or ADS7842. >One part would handle all four controllers. These are like $6 parts. If it was indeed a 9 bit ADC, it was probably implemented similarly to the DACs. A resistor ladder network with a comparitor. > > Here's a suggestion: Don't use any parts that can't be bought from > > Digikey, and for a reasonable price. Your mention of VirtexII with > > million gates is nifty, but we just bought XCV2-600s or whatevers > > for only $4500.00 each. You won't find too many group members > > willing to go for those! > >$4500!! You got screwed ;) The XVC600 should be around $1200 for >the -6 speed grade. You need to look at the Virtex2. They greatly >reduced the prices. The XC2V1000 is only around $400. 7 pcs of XCV6000 fastest in the 1152 BGA @ $4500.00 each from the local Insight distributor. These were purchased back in Nov. >I was thinking a Spartan2. The biggest one is $30 from Digikey but >we might not need that big of one. We'll see once the custom chips >are implemented how big a part is required. > >I agree that avalibilty from Digikey is a good way to insure the >parts are easy to get. We should consider this when choosing parts. >I believe all the parts I mentioned are avaliable from Digikey. > > > Sorry for the bad typing. We're getting close to tape-out at work > > and things are getting stressful, since a purchased IP core is > > buggy! > >I understand. The stupid analog guys at work are spraying my FPGA >with cold spray, freezing the part below the thermal spec and >complaining my design is junk when it locks up. What fun ;) > >Matt > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >Have you checked http://www.ballyalley.com lately? > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ballyalley-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. --=====================_524223==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 02:32 AM 3/21/2002 +0000, you wrote:
Hi Tony,

> Hopefully you've had enough experience with FPGAs not to believe
> the BS advertising that claims millions of gates at zillions of
> megahertz. I would caution against putting a Z80 core in, since
> they're cheap and available.

I wish I could get an FPGA with millions of gates at zillions of
megahertz ;)  In my current design I have a Spartan2 50k gate part
running at 100Mhz and 66Mhz.  A Z80 running at 1.78MHz should not be
a problem.  The problem might be the size of the core so an external
Z80 might be the proper solution.

> Isn't standard SRAM cheaper?

It could be but a ROM and an SRAM probably isn't.  FRAM could be a
cheaper solution, but it might not be the best solution. 

If we want paged memory like some people are talking about or a large
storage medium then a different memory solution would be in order. 
Perhaps a 1 or 2MB flash part for ROM and a 128 or 256KB SRAM would
better met the requirements.  An Intel TE28F160B3TA90 flash (1Mx16)
costs around $10 and a Toshiba 128KB SRAM (TC551001CFT) costs around
$8.

It really comes down to what do we want.  The solution space is quite
large, we need to nail down the actual requirements.

> The former is better than the latter.  Wall transformers usually
> don't put out enough soup.

I agree.  It would be nice to get a +5V/+3.3V switcher with a
standard line input.  The 2.5V core needs less than 500mA so a
regulator off +3.3V would be fine.

> The processor clock is 17.8 MHZ, and stops on every line for
> synchronization purposes (to the video)  The way the system used
> to work is that Z80 accesses had to be synchronous to the video.
> Of course, with the appropriate FIFO or handshake, this is not a
> requirement.  In order to generate NTSC video timing, you need to
> start with 14.318 MHz or (better) comply with the old CCIR601 @
> 27MHZ which makes NTSC/PAL timing support straightforward.  This
> is especially important if the plan is to generate composite or
> YC that is to be recorded.

I guess that's the reason they have the 14.31818 crystal.  We're
going to have to go over this more in the future.

> AFIK, there are no software timing loops. There is a line interrupt
> for timing purposes which is typically programmed to go on the same
> line of every field.

I don't know what AFIK means.  No software timing loops is a good
thing.  We should be less susceptible to processor timing changes
then.


AFIK = As Far As I Know


> I would strongly suggest outputting RGB digital, then sending it
> through external circuitry to generate whatever.  That way, RGB
> analog, YC or composite is straightfoward.  I know of no converter
> chips that will take R-Y, B-Y Y.  The all take RGB digital or Cr Cb
> Y @ 4:1:1, 4:2:2, etc.  The only reason the original output R-Y,
> etc., was to work directly with the modulator that ASTEC was making
> for us.  Other4 than that R-Y, etc is a major hassle.  Working in
> RGB space may require internal lookup tables to generate the
> appropriate color, however.  But I think the advantages far
> outweigh the disadvantages.

Do you know of a good resource for RBG signal generation?  I've never
worked with video so I'll need a crash course and/or some help.

Try Video demistified by Keith Jack, or the art of digital video by (someone whose name I can't remember)


> I believe the original did something like firing a oneshot from
> time to time, and the pot controlled the period.  When the oneshot
> fires, a counter starts which stops when the oneshot times out.
> The digital value is then read from the counter.  (But I could be
> wrong, never paid much attention to how that part of the IO chip
> works.

The one document said it had a 9-bit ADC.  I'm not sure how they
implemented the ADC.  I guess a oneshot and a counter would be a sort
of ADC.  I'm not sure how precise it'd be but it'd probably get the
job done.  Do we want to go that route or do we want a real ADC? We
could use a 12-bit 4 channel ADC from TI, such as ADS7841 or ADS7842.
One part would handle all four controllers.  These are like $6 parts.


If it was indeed a 9 bit ADC, it was probably implemented similarly to the DACs.  A resistor ladder network with a comparitor.




> Here's a suggestion:  Don't use any parts that can't be bought from
> Digikey, and for a reasonable price.  Your mention of VirtexII with
> million gates is nifty, but we just bought XCV2-600s or whatevers
> for only $4500.00 each.  You won't find too many group members
> willing to go for those!

$4500!! You got screwed ;)  The XVC600 should be around $1200 for
the -6 speed grade.  You need to look at the Virtex2.  They greatly
reduced the prices.  The XC2V1000 is only around $400.

7 pcs of XCV6000 fastest in the 1152 BGA @ $4500.00 each from the local Insight distributor.  These were purchased back in Nov.

I was thinking a Spartan2.  The biggest one is $30 from Digikey but
we might not need that big of one.  We'll see once the custom chips
are implemented how big a part is required.

I agree that avalibilty from Digikey is a good way to insure the
parts are easy to get.  We should consider this when choosing parts. 
I believe all the parts I mentioned are avaliable from Digikey.

> Sorry for the bad typing. We're getting close to tape-out at work
> and things are getting stressful, since a purchased IP core is
> buggy!

I understand.  The stupid analog guys at work are spraying my FPGA
with cold spray, freezing the part below the thermal spec and
complaining my design is junk when it locks up.  What fun ;)

Matt



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--=====================_524223==_.ALT-- From komb@s... Thu Mar 21 18:46:49 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: komb@s... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 22 Mar 2002 02:46:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 2315 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 02:46:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2002 02:46:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net) (209.226.175.35) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 02:46:48 -0000 Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.229.251.113]) by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020322024648.HNUO1981.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@s...> for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:46:48 -0500 Message-ID: <3C9A9AEC.9050204@s...> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:46:04 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020212 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade assembly (color mapping) help? References: <3C9A516A.28890.F812D9A@l...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lance F. Squire" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92613559 X-Yahoo-Profile: glankonian Frank Palazzolo wrote: > Well, I finally slapped together a Python script which generated the > web page, using the same equation as MESS. Here it is: > > http://www.dsplib.com/astrocade/astrocade_palette.html > Very Cool!!! Looks good to me. Certanly fits the spec. :) > There are pop-up messages in IE with the actual color codes in it. Also works in Mozilla and NS6. I seccond the posting of code if you still have probs. Lance From ballyalley@h... Fri Mar 22 04:15:53 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 22 Mar 2002 12:15:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 54368 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 12:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2002 12:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.37) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 12:15:52 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 04:15:51 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:15:51 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade assembly (color mapping) help? Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 04:15:51 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Mar 2002 12:15:51.0843 (UTC) FILETIME=[4EFD1730:01C1D19B] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo >> Well, I finally slapped together a Python script which generated the web page, using the same equation as MESS. Here it is: http://www.dsplib.com/astrocade/astrocade_palette.html There are pop-up messages in IE with the actual color codes in it. I must admit that I stole the HTML code from Glenn, but I'm generating it completely differently :) >> An html Astrocade color palette. Very nice, and very useful. Thanks! I used the MESS emulator's color palette display to choose the colors for the program I wrote, but this html listing makes it SO nice. Knowing the RGB value has future interesting potential for conversion of four or eight color bitmap screens to the Bally. I'm going to add a link to this Astrocade pallette to Bally Alley and, if you don't mind, put a local version there too. At least two people wouldn't mind seeing the code I wrote, so I'll post it with some comments very soon. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From palazzol@c... Fri Mar 22 04:39:54 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: palazzol@c... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 22 Mar 2002 12:39:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 94873 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 12:39:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2002 12:39:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.comcast.net) (24.153.64.2) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 12:39:50 -0000 Received: from pagels (pcp01182125pcs.strl1201.mi.comcast.net [68.60.202.189]) by mtaout01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GTD00BUPKIDMX@m...> for ballyalley@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:39:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:39:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [ballyalley] Astrocade assembly (color mapping) help? In-reply-to: To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <3C9ADFB6.30885.17EF66@l...> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal From: Frank Palazzolo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=99293129 X-Yahoo-Profile: knarfian > I'm going to add a link to this Astrocade pallette to Bally Alley and, if > you don't mind, put a local version there too. No problem. My site needs a massive overhaul anyways, so a local copy is a good idea. :) -Frank From ballyalley@h... Fri Mar 22 05:01:40 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: ballyalley@h... X-Apparently-To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 22 Mar 2002 13:01:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 43697 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 13:01:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2002 13:01:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.31.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 13:01:39 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 05:01:39 -0800 Received: from 24.164.190.248 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:01:39 GMT To: ballyalley@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Color mapping program and details Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 05:01:39 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Mar 2002 13:01:39.0885 (UTC) FILETIME=[B4F305D0:01C1D1A1] From: "Adam Trionfo" X-Originating-IP: [24.164.190.248] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60931836 X-Yahoo-Profile: atrionfo March 22, 2002 This explains, in detail, my questions about the Astrocade color registers not working the way I expect them to with the very short program that I wrote. The included program simply: 1) Displays the menu 2) Sets up the screen 3) Sets up the color registers as: Register $00- $00 ; Color 0 Right - Black Register $01- $5A ; Color 1 Right - Red Register $02- $86 ; Color 2 Right - Yellow Register $03- $F9 ; Color 3 Right - Blue Register $04- $00 ; Color 0 Left - Black Register $05- $5A ; Color 1 Left - Red Register $06- $86 ; Color 2 Left - Yellow Register $07- $F9 ; Color 3 Left - Blue 2) Fills the screen with zeros (well, all but the bottom eighty bytes, two scan lines). 3) Moves $1B (00011011B) to $4000, $4001,$4002, and $4003 4) Loops forever The program works fine, but the sixteen pixel colors that I setup are shown in the reverse order from what I expect. If memory location $4000 holds $1B (00011011B), shouldn't the four pixels displayed for that byte be Black, Red, Yellow, and Blue? Instead, I get Blue, Yellow, Red, Black. What gives? I typed this into my Blue Ram Utility (it only took a couple of minutes) and then I ran the program as a cart (it's meant to be run that way). Could you take a look at the program and explain to me why the colors are "backward?" I did some investigation on my own using my resources, I suspect information in the Nutting manual on page 86 will give us a hint. There is a drawing that explains the screen layout. Notice that pixels 0-3 are laid out from left to right as: | | | | | +----+----+----+----+ ^ ^ | | +-- Pixel 3 +-- Pixel 0 So, as in my program, if memory location $4000 holds $1B as: | 00 | 01 | 10 | 11 | = $1B +----+----+----+----+ Memory location $4000 And the color registers are setup as: Register $00 = $00 (Black) Register $01 = $5A (Red) Register $02 = $86 (Yellow) Register $03 = $F9 (Blue) Register $04 = $00 (Black) Register $05 = $5A (Red) Register $06 = $86 (Yellow) Register $07 = $F9 (Blue) Is the first pixel (zero) drawn first or last? If it's drawn first (and it seems to be), then I have been expecting the wrong color-order all along and I am getting the correct results. In other words, the byte is written as 11100100B (blue, yellow, red, and black). But this doesn't explain the background color being blue (the emulator doesn't display the background color-- you'll only see this color on a real Astrocade). Since port $09 is holding 44D ($2C, or 00101100B), and since bits 6 and 7 define the background color (in this case 00B), then color register $00 holds black. It should be used for the background color, but that is not the case: blue is displayed as the background (which is color register 03). The program I include is short and I hope that someone can find the time to look at it and even test it by typing it into your Blue Ram ([grin] for all those people that have one). Maybe then you can tell me what I am misunderstanding about the color registers. Am I looking at this wrong? Please, help set me straight! Here's the code (just in case this email message is broken up with carriage returns, the program is also in the Bally Alley discussion group file area and is called fourcolr.asm). Adam ; Title - Screen Display ; By - Adam Trionfo ; Rev - 1.1 - March 22, 2002 ; ; This program could not have been written without using ; Mike White's "Astro BASIC 4x2 Multicart Loader" and ; and the "Nutting Manual" as a reference. ; ; ; About this Program ; ------------------ ; ; Displays four pixels (repeated four times) at $4000. ; The byte value displayed is $B1, which should display ; color registers 0-3, but the order displayed is ; reverse from what I expect (3-0). Why? ; ; ; Assembling this Program ; ----------------------- ; This file will assemble with ZMAC 1.3 (a little ; known, freely distributable Z-80 assembler (with C ; source), that has a 25-year history. ZMAC can be ; compiled under just about any O.S. in existence, so ; try it out. ; ; To assemble Z-80 source code using ZMAC: ; ; zmac -i -m -o -x ; ; For example, to assemble this Astrocade Z-80 program: ; ; zmac-i -m -o titledis.bin -x titledis.lst titledis.asm INCLUDE "BALLYEQU.H" ORG $2000 ; First byte of Cartridge DB $55 ; Bally System Sentinel ; Menu Selection Choice #1 DW MENUST ; Next Menu Link DW PRGNAM ; Address of Program Name text DW PRGST ; Jump here if selected ORG $2007 ; Program Start PRGST: DI ; Disable interrupts SYSTEM (INTPC) ; Start System Interpreter DO (SETOUT) ; Set Display Ports DB 176D ; Vertical Blanking Line DB 44D ; Left/Right Color Boundary DB $18 ; Interrupt Mode DO (COLSET) ; Set Color Registers DW COLTAB ; Color Table DO (FILL) ; Screen Fill DW $4000 ; Destination DW 4000D ; Bytes to move DB $00 ; Fill with zeros DO (MOVE) ; Move Bytes DW $4000 ; Destination DW 4D ; Bytes to move (four) DW TOMOVE ; Source Address